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Old November 21, 2006, 10:14 PM   #1
UH1-D Rotorhead
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Suresight is finally here.......

....fast acquisition sights...especially helpfull for the visually challenged....available for your Glocks, XD's, and Sigs....check them out at www.suresight.com.)
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Old November 21, 2006, 10:39 PM   #2
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I really like this idea...hmmm.
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Old November 22, 2006, 11:39 AM   #3
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Wow. Conceptually, I like it. You still can't buy them, though.

Carter
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Old November 23, 2006, 01:17 AM   #4
gfen
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Isn't this what Steyr's handguns have had for awhile?

I vaguely remember this feature being touted heavily in one of hte old CDNN catalogues when they were liquidating Steyr pistols.
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Old November 23, 2006, 03:04 AM   #5
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The big question is what guns will they fit?
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Old November 23, 2006, 12:25 PM   #6
liliysdad
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Every review I have read, from real world shooters, is negative.
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Old November 23, 2006, 05:27 PM   #7
UH1-D Rotorhead
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Annnddddd........

...those "real world" reviews are where? Sources please. Links?
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Old November 23, 2006, 10:06 PM   #8
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http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/t...102#4121043102
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Old November 24, 2006, 03:16 AM   #9
BillCA
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Sorry liliysdad, that link requires registration.

I've dropped a note to the company president, Chaim Stein, whom I know through other contacts. Since I'm going to refurbish an old 3914, I'll see if he's willing to let me try out a set of the sights for an honest review.

I like the concept, though I wonder about the front sight height.
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Old November 24, 2006, 05:40 AM   #10
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Her is an excerpt from the thread. Everyone should be familiar with James Yeager, who is extremely qualified to make judgemets such as these.

Quote:

That sighting system is a knock off of the sights on the Steyr Pistol designed by Wilhelm Bubbits. These are not new and I have experience with them.

Point #1. They require too much adjustment and are SLOW to align.

Point #2. They are overly complex.

Point #3. They are less precise than traditional notch and post sights and are slower.

Point #4. They are a lot slower than XS sights.

Point #5. They require you attempt to focus on the rear sight at the same time you are focusing on the front sight...physically impossible.

Point #6. Wilhelm Bubbits didn't have them on his own carry gun. What does THAT tell you?

Sidenote - It is good manners to get permission from board administrators before you spam the board.





James Yeager's Cell: 731-336-4602
TRAINING: www.TacticalResponse.com 731-676-2041
GEAR: www.TacticalResponseGear.com 866-TAC-GEAR
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Old November 24, 2006, 08:38 AM   #11
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One person making a subjective evaluation...

...of a Steyr sight system...NOT the Suresight that is available now to those who are on the mailing list...if his is the only subjectively negative review of a new sight that IS NOT on the market now, I give the eval a thumbs down...anyone else you can quote?
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Old November 26, 2006, 12:10 PM   #12
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Hello Everyone,

My name is Chaim Stein, and I'm the inventor of the SureSight.

Mr. Yeager has not yet had any direct experience with my sight, and he was basing his assessment entirely on speculation. I offered him a set free of charge for his evaluation, but he never responded.

For those interested in reading reviews of my sight by people who've actually used them, check out this thread over at Glocktalk: http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread....ight=suresight

Below is my entire response Mr. Yeager's above-quoted post, taken from the same thread as Mr. Yeager's post:

Quote:
Mr. Yeager,

You seem to be basing your analysis of my sights on the mistaken assumption that because the Steyr sights contain a triangle, and my sights form a triangle, they are the same concept. This is false, in the same way that asserting that a Dodge Viper is a “knock off” of a Ford Model T, since they both have round wheels.

In point of fact, SureSight functions completely differently from Steyr’s triangle/trapezoid sights, and the experience of aiming with one is not at all similar to the Steyr sights. While they both use triangles, the Steyr sights are aligned in precisely the same manner as notch and post sights. It's just that the sides of the rear notch are turned in at about a 45 degree angle. This leads to many of the shortcomings you explained, but your assessment does not apply to SureSight.

With SureSight, alignment occurs vertically, with the front pentagonal shape visually “stacked” atop the rear sight. The end result is that when the sights are aligned, a triangle is formed, with the tip of the triangle being point of impact.

Some of the advantages of this setup include:

* A simplified flash sight picture whereby the rear sight is not emphasized at all.

* A much larger, more visible, faster and easier-to-acquire front sight. (By far the largest of any front sight on the market)

* Increased speed of sight acquisition and better sight visibility during both the arc of recoil and while shooting on the move.

* More easily seen for bifocal wearers and those with "older eyes".

* A more intuitive sight alignment. People are hard-wired to complete shapes, as in turning the front and rear sight shapes of SureSight into a triangle. This phenomenon is known as the Gestalt Principle of Closure. (see www.suresight.com for details and diagrams—it may not be up yet, but will be shortly. We’re currently re-working our website. If it's still not up, you can see a quick description HERE) If you have normal brain function, you were born with the ability to do this.

* Another unique advantage of this setup is the ability to focus intently on one's target and still have the ability to align the sights--intuitively. Out to at least 7-10 yards, (and well beyond for some people) this is a very effective technique with SureSight. Functioning in this capacity, several people have aptly described them as “point-shooting sights”.

Finally, I’m sure you’ll be happy to know that SureSight is most certainly ON ALL my self defense Glocks.

I’d love to send you a set so you can draw your own conclusions. If you hate them, that’s fine, too. I would just like to get your honest opinion after you’ve actually tried them.

Please PM or email me at info@suresight.com if you're interested.

--Chaim

Hope that helps,

Chaim Stein
President, SureSight LLC
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Old November 26, 2006, 04:17 PM   #13
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I will be serving....

....Crow.... who is supposed to be first in line?
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Old November 27, 2006, 09:47 AM   #14
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Looks intriguing to me. I wouldn't mind trying them out.
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Old November 27, 2006, 11:06 AM   #15
Leibster
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If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask!

If anyone would like to join our mailing list and get first chance to purchase the sights, please sign up HERE.

Initial models will be available for Glocks, Sigs and XDs. We will branch out to more models sometime thereafter.

Thanks,

--Chaim
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Old November 27, 2006, 03:03 PM   #16
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And the asking price would be ???
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Old November 27, 2006, 06:59 PM   #17
liliysdad
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I have no taste for crow, nor do I feel entitled to a helping. This was the one online review I found, but not everything exists on the internet. I have absolutely no problems trusting James Yeager. Him refusing to try the sights is completely inconsequential as I, for one, do not need to eat poop to know what it tastes like.

The sight makes no sense, and answers a question not asked. What benefit it serves at extreme close range, if any, is far offset by the detraction from intermediate to long range accuracy. With no way to verify elevation, it is useless at anything above contact range. I feel this concept has been brough to its pinnacle by the Ashley Big Dot sight, while still offering useable accuracy at extended ranges.

If this is your cup of tea, then fine, but I have no need for a "square wheel."
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Old November 27, 2006, 07:43 PM   #18
UH1-D Rotorhead
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Then poop it is......

....need to lighten' up fella...so far, there are NO reviews of the final product, and all that you have said, so far, is emotionally subjective.
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Old November 27, 2006, 08:17 PM   #19
liliysdad
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I agree completely. I simply feel, quite strongly, that this sight, in theory or in person, offers nothing that sights already on the market do not offer, except a lack of accuracy at any range other than contact.
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Old November 27, 2006, 10:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
The sight makes no sense, and answers a question not asked. What benefit it serves at extreme close range, if any, is far offset by the detraction from intermediate to long range accuracy. With no way to verify elevation, it is useless at anything above contact range. I feel this concept has been brough to its pinnacle by the Ashley Big Dot sight, while still offering useable accuracy at extended ranges.
Strongly disagree. I think you completely misunderstand the purpose, and are trying to make it something it's not. EVERY sight is a compromise or tradeoff of competing features at opposing ends of the spectrum (like everything else in life), and this sight is specifically FOR close-in combat ranges, which is what a pistol happens to be for (the vast majority of handguns). Intermediate and long-range accuracy? Of course not - that's not what it's for (not what a handgun is for, in fact). It's designed to be good - very good - at its particular specialty, which is close range, where gun fights actually happen. If you have separation between you and the guy(s) trying to hurt you, you should be (a) retreating & calling for cops/backup/posse/arty, or (b) making your way to the nearest long gun. Of course it won't live up to your expectations if you're trying to make it somethign its not - that's like saying a ferrari is a really crappy dump truck. We'll see how good this may work, but it looks very promising for FAST acquistion, which is one of the most important factors, if not THE most important, in sighting on a violent attacker in a gunfight.
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Old November 27, 2006, 10:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
EVERY sight is a compromise
A compromise normally denotes both sides, in this case, contact range vs extended range, finding an appropriate middel ground. The Suresight, from what I can see, offers nothing in the extended range avenue, and posibly something at extreme close range. Looks to me that the Big Dot is a much more practical design, as at the ranges the SureSight may actually be useable, no sights or a Gutter Snipe would be just as useful.
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Old November 28, 2006, 08:55 PM   #22
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littlmak,
Asking price is $89.

liliysdad,
I'm not sure how you reached your conclusions, but if you want to read reviews from people who've actually used my sights, click HERE.

FirstFreedom,
Well said. Thank you for your post.

--Leibster
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Old November 29, 2006, 08:29 AM   #23
UH1-D Rotorhead
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Chaim....

...some of those folks on Glock talk claim having bought your sights at MidwayUSA....after scouring their on line catalog, and scouring my paper version, followed up by a call to Midway, where they state they don't carry your sites, as well as a call to Dallas Tactical...another company mentioned that sells your sights, also deny ever having them... how did these Glocksters buy sights that don't exist in Midway's or Dallas' inventory?
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Old November 29, 2006, 12:38 PM   #24
Leibster
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UH1-D Rotorhead,
If you look at the dates of their posts, you'll see those folks bought product several years ago. This is back when the product was distributed by TRUGLO. The TRUGLO version of SureSight hasn't been available for years.

At this time, the SureSight website is the only place to purchase the new version. (Actually, until next week, you'll have to sign up HERE in order to pre-order)

Hope that clears things up,

--Chaim
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Old May 11, 2007, 03:15 PM   #25
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I just thought I'd give this thread a bump, hopefully there has been some more experience with these sights that could give us insight to how they work in the real world, I certainly find the idea interesting and would be interested hearing about testing in the field.

I have no taste for crow, nor do I feel entitled to a helping. This was the one online review I found, but not everything exists on the internet. I have absolutely no problems trusting James Yeager. Him refusing to try the sights is completely inconsequential as I, for one, do not need to eat poop to know what it tastes like

If you had 100 people line up to be fed a teaspoon of poop I am betting all of them would agree that it actually tastes like poop, I'd read reviews by many people who like these sights. If people were being fed poop why would they say it tastes like ice cream?

The sight makes no sense, and answers a question not asked. What benefit it serves at extreme close range, if any, is far offset by the detraction from intermediate to long range accuracy

Why, necessarily, would these sight be worse at range than notch and post sights? These have a smaller aim point which would therefore be more precise, and the rest is a matter of maintaining a shape while shooting: with these it's a triangle and with the notch and posts it's a rectangle.

If this is your cup of tea, then fine, but I have no need for a "square wheel."

The opinion would have vastly more weight if you actually tried the product in question.
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