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Old November 13, 2006, 04:54 PM   #1
ppcpilot
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.32 ACP vs .32 S&W Long

Hi all. I have an H&R 733 in S&W long. I am told it will fire the .32 S&W shorts, longs, and the ACP carts will work in it as well.

What should I load this pistol with for defensive purposes? A .32ACP with a quality hollowpoint bullet, or the .32 S&W long carts. There aren't any hollowpoints for the S&W long, so I would guess a wadcutter would be best? Does the S&Wlong cart have more energy and power than the acp?

Thanks!
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Old November 13, 2006, 08:51 PM   #2
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Hello
I carry a Kel-Tec P-32 occasionally that fires the .32 ACP. I purchased some mag safe Bullets for it. They advertised a velocity of 1450 on the package, out of The Tom Cat Berretta Pistol. I also have a few revolver's that fire the .32 S&W Long. Sadly the .32 S&W Long is a forgotten round. it is an old round and the only thing commercially loaded for it is wad cutter's and Round lead bullets. The average velocity of the .32 S&W Long in this form is from 700 F.P.S to 875 F.P.S. So, I would go with the .32 A.C.P. with Mag Safe rounds if you have to carry a .32 caliber Loaded with Factory ammo you might as well have a high velocity round. Here is what it looks like.Hammer It.

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Old November 13, 2006, 08:54 PM   #3
Jim Watson
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The .32 ACP is more powerful than the .32 S&W Long, according to factory ballistic tables. However, it is a semi-rimmed cartridge that chambers in a .32 revolver only by an accident of fate. I would not count on it for self defense without doing a good deal of shooting.
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Old November 13, 2006, 08:58 PM   #4
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You might want to make sure extraction won't be a problem since the .32 ACP is a semi-rimmed case. Practice with it like you would in an emergency situation.
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Old November 13, 2006, 09:00 PM   #5
C Philip
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I have shot some .32S&W long, and personally I would not bet my life on it. It seemed very underpowered to me for anything more than hunting rabbits at 25 yards. As you said, the commercial loadings for it are limited to LRN and wadcutter. Of the two I would definitely go with the .32auto.
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Old November 13, 2006, 09:11 PM   #6
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Last week on AOL news, there was a story about a woman in Bolivia (I think) whose ex-husband shot her six times in the head with a 32 semi-automatic. She says she will go back to the hospitol in the future to have the one slug that penitrated the skull removed. Right now I think she's just mad.
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Old November 13, 2006, 10:43 PM   #7
Bill DeShivs
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Here we go again! There was no mention of the gun being a .32 auto-only .32 caliber.
None of the bullets penetrated the skull.
Bill
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Old November 14, 2006, 03:27 AM   #8
Diggers
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I heard that story too. It seems the bullets ended up between her skull and scalp. Interestingly there were 6 of them. HUmmm what kind of gun holds 6 bullets? Hummm.

But why didn't they just take them out while she was there?? Seems weird to leave them. A small incision next to the bullet and they could pop them right out.

I'm guessing it was a .32 s&w.
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Old November 14, 2006, 04:21 AM   #9
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Hi,
I'm not sure I would count on an hollow point in either .32 acp or S&W long, for one thing, they're not really fast, then the cavity is small, which could ealily mean it gets filled and the bullet will not upset. If we were talking about .30 luger (7,65 parabellum) or mauser (7,63 mauser) it would be another story.
In any case, the hottest hp I'm aware of for the .32 acp is the Fiocchi, developed just before EEC banned hollow point bullets
If you're not using a gun with a bad barrel or a bad trigger pull (as sometimes found with .32 acp, my Beretta mod. 70 for instance), the round exibits good, sometimes excellent accuracy. With a beretta mod 81 I happened to shoot a couple of 49/50 on the standard bullseye at 25 meters. The .32 S&W long is potentially even more accurate, our team of (laughs) *big caliber* speciality always used the .32 S&W long. I would use solids, with both rounds, and go for the head when possible, given that they're both accurate and very shootable.

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Old November 14, 2006, 09:11 AM   #10
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Being that this is an H&R model 733, would this gun be able to handle a more powerful .32ACP round? I think the 733 is not the best quality revolver ever produced....
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Old November 14, 2006, 09:45 AM   #11
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"I heard that story too. It seems the bullets ended up between her skull and scalp. Interestingly there were 6 of them. HUmmm what kind of gun holds 6 bullets? Hummm..."

Well, let's see...

A revolver can hold 6 CARTRIDGES. Or, depending on the make and model, a revolver can also hold more than 6 cartridges, or fewer than 6 cartridges.

Interestingly enough, just about any .32 semi-auto also holds 6 CARTRIDGES, or more.

You're looking at the number of bullets in the woman's head and making a several leaps of faith.

The first leap of faith is your assumption that the man fired his gun dry.

The second leap of faith is your assumption that the man hit the woman with ALL of the shots that he fired.

Neither assumption can be validated from the reports I've read.
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Old November 14, 2006, 09:46 AM   #12
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"Being that this is an H&R model 733, would this gun be able to handle a more powerful .32ACP round? I think the 733 is not the best quality revolver ever produced...."

I certainly wouldn't attempt it.

The gun probably won't turn into a chunky grenade, but I doubt that it would remain operational very long.
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Old November 14, 2006, 10:04 AM   #13
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I own a H&R 733 too. The gun is solid steel contruction. I read an article in google where the author claims to have fired 32acp with this model all the time.

Google it and you will find people who claim to shoot a 32cap in a .32 sw long revolver all the time. You will also find an equal number of people who advise against it.

Don't know if that's enough to risk it. If you loaded for home defense you would want to be sure that this ammo was reliable. You would need to shoot with it enough to be sure. Since i just punch holes in paper I would probably not risk it.

It's an interesting idear as the 733 is fairly accurate at the range.
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Old November 14, 2006, 10:21 AM   #14
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Hello
I always find it amazing when other's doubt the effectiveness of a smaller Non Magnum round like the .32 S&W Long or in this Poster's case the .32 A.C.P. I found this interesting web page that contains information on the effective penetration level of the .32 A.C.P. I have no doubts carrying it daily in my P-32 Kel-Tec as a decent self defense load. I saw the response where the woman was hit in the head with a .32 caliber bullet and it did not kill her, but most self defense situations do Not end up being Head shots, they are more in line with body shot's at extremely close range. I also have never seen a B-27 Man sized target where the shooter was attempting to make head shot's as they are normally body shots. I feel many place a self defense round up in The Magnum category as a requirement, and long before any Magnums were even available the standard Police carry weapon had the .32 S&W Long cartridges in it, and S&W even stated this round was very capable of close encounter self defense situations. Regards, Hammer It.
http://stevespages.com/page8f32acp.html
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Old November 14, 2006, 10:25 AM   #15
Hammer It
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Hello
I also found this amazing test using the .32 ACP ammo in the forum web site "The Box of Truth" They show a very good penetration test on this round simply follow the link below. Regards, Hammer It.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm
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Old November 14, 2006, 10:56 AM   #16
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A friend of mine was shot twice with a .32 ACP at close range. One round lodged in his left forearm and the other in his thigh. He said he felt the concussion of the shots more than the impact of the hits. He disarmed his opponent and beat the bejesus out of him with it before the cops arrived.

Some discussions I've had with a retired NYCPD officer were enlightening. He said if you have a .32 S&W Long, shoot low into the pelvic area or abdomen. The .32 Long in these regions is painful and people tend to bend over when hit there. His first training officer in the late 1930's carried a Colt .32 Long and survived five shootouts using it.

The .32 Long is anemic by today's standards, but like anything else it is bullet placement that counts. Shooting double-taps should be SOP for this cartridge -- and much easier due to the mild recoil.

You can also find revolvers chambered for the .32 H&R Magnum round if you want more gee-whiz out of a .32 round. While it's not as powerful as a .38 Special +P, the light recoil and sixth shot make double taps quick and easy.


S&W Model 432 - .32 H&R Magnum, six shots, 15 oz.
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Old November 16, 2006, 12:55 PM   #17
Harris304
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I think if you do your job right a 32. is fine for a defensive weapon. Consider the number of murders resulting from just a 22. In the hands of a skilled serial killer the number of bodys would just pile up.
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Old November 16, 2006, 03:30 PM   #18
JR47
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The .32 in question in IIRC Brazil was a revolver. That makes it a .32 S&W. It's mentioned in another thread here.
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Old November 17, 2006, 04:41 AM   #19
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Ah Ha!!
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Old November 17, 2006, 09:52 AM   #20
Mike Irwin
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There were a LOT of .32 S&W Long revolvers to come out of Brazil in years past, too.
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Old November 17, 2006, 10:16 AM   #21
Hammer It
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Quote:
I think if you do your job right a 32. is fine for a defensive weapon. Consider the number of murders resulting from just a 22. In the hands of a skilled serial killer the number of bodys would just pile up.
Hello
I have read the great Reference Book entitled "S&W The Story of the Revolver" By Carl Hellstrom Past Vice president of Smith & Wesson dated Copyrighted 1953. In it Mr. Hellstrom wrote this about the S&W .32 Regualtion Police revolver that was chambered in .32 S&W Long...I will Quote his Word's.

"Quote"
The Regulation Police Model revolver was brought out to meet the requirements of Police Departments for a Light, Small, and absolutely dependable revolver. There was an almost equal demand for this revolver in the Popular .32 S&W Long cartridges and for the Powerful .38 S&W Cartridge.. The Limitation of barrel length to 4" in, makes this revolver exactly right for a holster or Pocket sidearm, and "EITHER Cartridge is sufficiently Powerful to answer the needs of self protection". "Quote"

From this claim I see it as the .32 S&W Long caliber was selected as a means of getting the Job done should a Policeman need it in the Line of duty. I feel much Hype in Magnum caliber's of today, has molded us into thinking we Need the large magnum caliber's for self protection and they are supperior to the older chosen caliber's of the past. As the Poster above made claim if the correct point of impact is chosen fatal results will be the Out come. Hammer It.
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Old November 17, 2006, 12:57 PM   #22
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I worked on a murder case one time in which the defendant used an old .32 S&W revolver stoked with a mixture of .32 S&W Longs and .32 acps. They all went off, and one rang the bell and clipped the other guy's aorta. I believe the one that killed the guy was one of the FMJ .32 acp rounds.

I wouldn't fire .32 acps in a .32 S&W Long revolver myself, but it worked for this guy. I wouldn't carry either round for self-defense myself, but - like BillCA says - it'll work if it's placed right. Lord knows I've seen a few people killed by .32s (and .25s, and .22s . . . ). But rather than discussing whether this caliber will work, our time is better spent studying exactly where the vital structures (heart/aorta and brain) lie in a human body, and how best to hit them with a puny handgun.
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Old November 17, 2006, 01:14 PM   #23
Carlo
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I understand that .32 is not tops of defensive balistics, however, both .32' fit guns that are of the right size for carry without discomfort, if well made work like swiss clocks, are generally pretty accurate and durable. The two mentioned calibers are a joy to shoot, contrary to many others pushed for defensive applications. A point that is not strictly of concern is that many guns made for these calibers are really good looking, however this shouldn't really matter, in general however, the .32 is a well balanced caliber for small pistols.
Personally, I would prefer a 3"-3 and 1/2" steel .32 to a lightweight 2" .357, I mean I would really carry a S&W mod. 31 or a colt 1903 (or mab mod. d, walther pp, llama Xa etc...) in perfect conditions over a *pocket magnum blaster*.

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Old November 17, 2006, 04:15 PM   #24
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Glad to see the words of the last two posters. I will try the 32 ACPs in this gun to see what happens. I know the gun is all steel, so it should handle it...we aren't talking .44 mag out of an aluminum gun or anything. I am thinking the ACPs will be the better loading for defensive purposes...although maybe there is a case for the .32 S&W long wadcutter rather than the round nose.

I have read up on the history, and it was plenty for police back then, and they were dealing with guys with tommy guns and such. I dont know what the common criminal element carried as a rule back then, though.

I am looking for it to fill the need of a quick grab and go piece...if I have any time to prepare where I am going to, I'll pick something else out.
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Old November 17, 2006, 08:22 PM   #25
Bill DeShivs
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There is much to be said for a gun that is comfortable to shoot, even pleasurable. It builds familiarity and accuracy-hence confidence. We would all choose a "master blaster" if we knew we going to have to use it, but what are the chances? Better to have a nice gun you can shoot than one you are afraid of.
"Afraid?" Yes. I have taught enough people to shoot to have seen that some people-usually macho men- never learn to shoot well because they insist on beating themselves to death with powerful guns, but the problem was never that a less powerful gun was the answer. It was always that the .357 just wasn't accurate! Far too many people can't see past the fireworks to really learn familiarity and marksmanship.
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