The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 8, 2006, 04:45 PM   #1
biere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: tn
Posts: 502
Problems with different primary and bug?

The thread about using different platforms for carry on different days of the week made me wonder about having a backup gun that is different from the primary ccw.

My specific example is a 1911 carried iwb on the right side and a lightweight 5 shot dao snubby carried on my left side in a pocket.

To some extent I have noticed I am shooting the 1911 using my right hand as the strong hand and the revolver gets shot with my left hand as the strong hand.

I tried running a search but have no clue what terms to use for this topic.

Overall I am wondering what most folks think about this. I know a lot of people do it, but that does not always happen to be the answer I want.
biere is offline  
Old November 8, 2006, 05:00 PM   #2
shield20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 13, 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
Posts: 1,371
When I carried a BUG it was always of similiar functionality as my duty gun...when I carried a GP100, my BU was an SP101; when I carried a 92F, it was a PPK/S (and my CC was a 92c).

SINCE it is a back-up, it may not seem as critical, but I knew when on the job if I needed my BUG I was in serious doo-doo - I wanted to be as...in-groove with that piece as possible.
shield20 is offline  
Old November 8, 2006, 10:47 PM   #3
chrisandclauida2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 21, 2005
Posts: 312
copied from other thread;

i think carrying a different platform weapon as a bug is totally different than carrying different platforms as primary and rotating thru them.

this is because when you go to a bug you are mentally transitioning to that platform and as such it will be easier than if on Monday you carry a 645 smith and Tues you carry a mod66 and wed you carry a 1911. there will not be the cognitive mental decision that you have when you decide hay im transitioning to my bug so i will work it properly.

this said i think it is still by far better to carry the same platform bug as your primary.

big glock little glock.

big 1911 micro 1911

revolver/revolver etc.

i also think it is k to carry different brands that utilise the same controls in the same direction in the same location. but here still the trigger pull the way you hold it and the kind of sights will limit your effectiveness even if only slightly.
chrisandclauida2 is offline  
Old November 8, 2006, 11:22 PM   #4
warwagon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2005
Location: Dayton Oh
Posts: 339
In my uniform days I often carried a different platform on duty, than I carried plain clothes/off duty.

Never experienced a problem.

If you practice with what you carry, and are proficient with your weapons, there should be an easy transition between them.

Last edited by warwagon; November 9, 2006 at 07:51 PM. Reason: spelling
warwagon is offline  
Old November 9, 2006, 04:26 AM   #5
Blackwater OPS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,153
also copied from the other thread:

Quote:
I do sometimes carry a J-frame when the situation demands a more consealed option. I know its limitations and I really don't think I would confuse it with my standard carry item, a DA/SA full size auto. Also, I only carry the S&W in a ankle holster, while the auto is almost always IWB.
I don't think it is always possible to carry a BUG that operates in the same way as a primary, size is a factor. If you go too small with an auto you have a mouse gun, where with a small revolver you can get .357 power in a .380 size package. Also IMO a revolver is a more reliable BUG. They should be either very much the same or very different, if they are "close" to the same you may have problems.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty,
to purchase a little temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Ben Franklin

Spc. Jeremy M. Campbell
Died 9/1/2005
and the best DS ever
MSG Matthew Ritz
Died 11.23.2005
matthewritz.com

For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know.

(\__/)
(='.'=) Someone set us up the bunny!
(")_(")
Blackwater OPS is offline  
Old November 9, 2006, 07:37 AM   #6
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,559
Thanks, Warwagon, . . . your insight is very much refreshing.

There are far too many naysayers in every walk of life these days, . . . who are all too willing to criticize, belittle, bemoan, berate, denigrate, and given the opportunity, . . . sabotage good common sense.

Most of them voted Tuesday, too.

May God bless,

Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old November 9, 2006, 07:37 PM   #7
cz223
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 118
I am of the opinion....

that any gun that I will use for self defense function basically the same as any other gun that I use for this purpose. For me that means when the defication impacts the rotary oscillaror all I have to do is aim, insert finger, and, pull trigger. I do not want to worry about safeties etc. Currently I have three guns that I keep loaded for self defense. They are a Glock 23, an S&W 4516-1 and a S&W 36. While they vary in size and shape they all function basically the same way as long as I carry the S&W 4516-1 with the safety/decocker in the off position which I do. For those who don't know, this is a DA/SA pistol and, since the first shot is no different than a DA revolver, it is perfectly safe to carry in this condition. If I were to carry a 1911 my backup/deep cocealment gun would be a Colt mustang 380 because it functions exactly the same.
cz223 is offline  
Old November 9, 2006, 08:01 PM   #8
Mannlicher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2001
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 2,970
Biere,
If you see it as a problem, then it is that for you. I dont have any concerns with having different types of handguns.
__________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan
Mannlicher is offline  
Old November 9, 2006, 09:55 PM   #9
biere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: tn
Posts: 502
Yes, in the end it does come down to me being comfortable with whatever I carry.

Now that I have some more carry time and practice time with this combo I am feeling a lot more comfortable.

Using different hands has pretty much eliminated any concerns I had about the differences in triggers and what not.

And while I thought hard about a small semi-auto and specifically a small 1911, I just felt they were all too heavy for pocket carry.

The airweight s&w 642 has the right weight and size for me, and it looks like I will learn to adjust to this setup.

I just need to give it some time and a lot of practice.
biere is offline  
Old November 9, 2006, 10:19 PM   #10
OneInTheChamber
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2005
Posts: 789
I think Glock has the right idea; similarly to goverment, officer, and compact sized 1911's.

They operate identically, can share ammunition, and the BUG can use magazines from the carry gun (but not reverse--the carry gun's magazines are full size, the BUG's would be too short to work in the carry gun).

I understand the notion that you can get a bigger caliber revolver in a small package; but 10+ 9mm's or .40's in a BUG is a pretty good load for such a small gun.
__________________
Insert witty, comical, and/or significant quote here.
OneInTheChamber is offline  
Old November 10, 2006, 04:05 AM   #11
silicon wolverine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2006
Location: South dakota
Posts: 674
while an intriuging question, in practice ive found no problems carrying two different platforms. I usually carry a glock 17 as my primary and either my CZ70 in .32 or my raven in .25 as a BUG. both are vastly different from my glock but as i practice transition from one to the other on a regular basis it has never been a problem.

SW
silicon wolverine is offline  
Old November 10, 2006, 04:43 PM   #12
biere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: tn
Posts: 502
All good points.

And I am always looking and considering other options.

One thing I wanted to do with the backup gun is to carry it in a different manner from how I carry my primary piece.

I have found that with my daily activities I sometimes wind up doing stuff where drawing an iwb anything would be a bit difficult. Hence the front pant's pocket carry method.

That carry method really gets into dealing with weight of the handgun and holster and ammo load, so that is why I went with the 642.

To some extent I would still like to find the even lighter 357mag version but I really doubt I would ever use 357mag ammo in it. Even +p 38 special is surprising in the 642 and I don't feel like developing a flinch.

I did get a chance to try some of the other pocket semi-autos, but I mostly wound up getting into a game of cost and reliability concerns with most of them.

Since none of them are like a 1911 trigger wise I decided the 642 and its reliability was my best bet.

I am still pretty new to ccw and I am still adjusting to different daily activities and different clothes as weather changes and what not.

I am still reading older threads in this section and still learning. Then again, with new handguns coming out all the time the options do tend to change over the years.
biere is offline  
Old December 29, 2006, 06:29 PM   #13
Slugthrower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2006
Posts: 823
My solution for a primary and a back up hand gun.
Use a DA/SA Semi-auto as a primary. Use a DA revolver as back up.

Carry one mag for auto and one speed loader for the BUG. This will give you options. If my pistol fails to fire, I simply pull the trigger again. No bang. Tap, rack, bang. If that happens again, go to the BUG. First pull is heavy just like my primary, also if the revolver fails to fire the solution is the same. Pull the trigger again.

If some how you have time. switch mags and get the pistol up and running. In my case My pistol holds 14 shots and the revolver holds 7 . Total of 42 rounds. If that is not enough. I got myself into a fight that a pistol can't win.

The reality is I usually only carry the pistol ,plus one mag. 28 shots should be plenty and still give me the option of changing mags to cure a malfunction. For SD a knife is a better back up. Police tend to need the BUG.

If you are like me and just a regular person, you don't need to carry the equivalent of a duty belt of weapons and gear. CCW is supposed to be low profile. Packing a brace of pistols is for pirates.
Slugthrower is offline  
Old December 29, 2006, 11:23 PM   #14
ATW525
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2005
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 2,683
My primary is a Taurus 650 2" .357 Magnum and my BUG is a Glock 19. That may sound backwards, but if anything goes down I'll likely already have my hand on the snubbie in my pocket and it will be the first into action. If five rounds of .357 doesn't bring the situation to sastifactory conclusion, then the Glock 19 will allow me to continue the fight.

As for problems with having disimiliar platforms, it doesn't seem to be a disadvantage when I practice. In fact I tend to shoot the Glock best after transitioning to it from the .357... most likely because it feels like a .22 in comparison.
ATW525 is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 01:03 AM   #15
eerudd
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2006
Posts: 13
u just need a mini me, a 1911 mini dog
eerudd is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 07:22 AM   #16
tlm225
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 661
Personally I think your combo will work just fine. It's not as if you're using an unfamiliar system and I doubt you'll try to flip of the "safety" of your 642 if you transition to it.
__________________
All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
tlm225 is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 05:46 PM   #17
Tokamak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Posts: 265
cz223 I agree.

My Ruger SP101 .357 is backed up by my Kel-Tec P3AT .380 auto. Neither has a safety and function in similar ways. Double action, pull the trigger to shoot.

They are very different guns in some respects (semi vs revolver), but remarkably similar in how they operate.
Tokamak is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11303 seconds with 7 queries