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View Poll Results: Would you carry a .22 mag?
Yes 106 72.11%
No 41 27.89%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 7, 2006, 09:19 PM   #1
'75Scout
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Would you carry a .22 mag?

Would any of you members carry a .22 mag for light duty or back-up? Like if you are going to the grocery store, dinner with at the in-laws house, church or anywhere else that you feel is low risk and deep concealment is a must. I like the S&W 351PD for this role. Its a 7 shot, 10.5 oz J-frame and would be a breeze to carry. I personally don't feel this gun would be any less useful than any 32 acp or 25acp pocket gun.

Remember if you vote that I am talking about BUG and light, low risk duty. Not primary self defense gun.
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Old November 7, 2006, 09:25 PM   #2
Wildalaska
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One of my friends carries one all the time.

He was shot with one. He knows how bad it is

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Old November 7, 2006, 09:42 PM   #3
BobK
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No. I won't. People can carry what they want. Mouse guns have been argued here many times. I won't depend on a mouse gun caliber let alone a rimfire round to protect myself or family. I have learned to carry service caliber guns and dress around them.
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Old November 7, 2006, 09:43 PM   #4
moose fat
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I carried one of those $69.00 deringers for a while but it was unreliable. Used it for scarring ravens and cranes away from the buckets of fish food at a salmon hatchery and a remote rearing site, mostly.
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Old November 7, 2006, 10:16 PM   #5
ShelbyV8
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I did carry a NAA Mini Mag until I got a Keltec P3AT
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Old November 7, 2006, 10:26 PM   #6
sandraw
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I carry a NAA guardian .32. It is so small and light, why go smaller?
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Old November 7, 2006, 10:40 PM   #7
'75Scout
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I don't think the J-frames are smaller than the Guardians, but this one would certainly be lighter. The unreliability of the Rimfire catridge could be overcome with the revolver. Though nearly 100% of my malfuctions are FTF's. And it would certainly be easier to shoot.
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Old November 8, 2006, 12:15 AM   #8
TFin04
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If you're still going to carry a J Frame why not go a larger caliber? Same size gun, MUCH bigger punch.
I was thinking about the NAA Mini's until you mentioned the J Frame. If that is all you can conceal, by all means, carry it!

Your surroundings are only "low risk" until you need your gun, do you want a .22 then?

S&W makes a .357 J Frame that is only 12oz dry. That would be my pick, though I would probably carry 38SPL+P.
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:01 AM   #9
kozak6
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Well, let's just say I've never been mugged by a jackrabbit.

We are talking something on the order of a 2" barrel, correct?

Scroll down to page 5 and have a look at the ballistics chart.

http://www.naaminis.com/news20.pdf
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:02 AM   #10
jlh26oo
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No

There's a point at which I'd rather go hand to hand.
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:15 AM   #11
death2twinkys
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The day I die.
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According to the gun designer of The Matrix.
Larry & Andy Wachowski: Who uses a .50 Desert Eagle?
Gun Designer: A wanker.
Wachowskis: No, who are they made for?
Designer: Wankers.
Wachowskis: Our wankers in this film want Desert Eagles.
Designer: Your film.
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:29 AM   #12
jlh26oo
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Death2twinkys, I understand how you feel, but have you ever tried the "twinkies" (in shape and configuration only) by Mrs. Freshley's?

They are RED!

The cake portion, quite frankly, tastes like cake. Red-earth cake/Red velvet whatever you call it. It's so good, you almost wish there was no filling (three dot style on the base, injected much like Hostess does).

All empty calories, granted. But they might surprise you.
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:38 AM   #13
saypek
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Quote:
Like if you are going to the grocery store, dinner with at the in-laws house, church or anywhere else that you feel is low risk and deep concealment is a must.
only in the above mentioned situation.
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Old November 8, 2006, 04:11 AM   #14
death2twinkys
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I just don't trust any non-dehydrated food that can out live me.
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According to the gun designer of The Matrix.
Larry & Andy Wachowski: Who uses a .50 Desert Eagle?
Gun Designer: A wanker.
Wachowskis: No, who are they made for?
Designer: Wankers.
Wachowskis: Our wankers in this film want Desert Eagles.
Designer: Your film.
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Old November 8, 2006, 07:45 AM   #15
Kreyzhorse
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I voted no because I feel more comfortable carrying a larger round. With that said, if a .22 mag was my only option, I would certainly carry it. Armed is armed.
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Old November 8, 2006, 10:33 AM   #16
Samurai
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If there's a .22 on the table, and I've got nothing, then I'll pick up the .22. I will quickly look toward emptying the .22 into a single, accessible enemy, and collecting HIS weapon. ("Why would you want to go into battle with a .22?" "Because I won't have a .22 for very long!")

But, when it comes to voluntarily selecting a .22, my question is this: What is it that you can do with a .22 that you can't do with a 9mm? With a .45? Visit The Box of Truth, and you will see that .22 rounds are just as dangerous indoors as .45 or 9mm, and I'd just bet the bigger load is less survivable.

Concealability? When the .45 is too bulky for the wardrobe selection of the day, I carry a PA-63, chambered in 9x18. That's about as small as I can hold, maintaining my ability to properly grip the frame, and I won't be able to properly grip a smaller .22.

So, the answer is, no. I wouldn't voluntarily select a .22. There'd be no reason to do so. My 9x18 will do just fine.
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Old November 8, 2006, 12:30 PM   #17
claude783
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At my church (years ago) one of my fellow members was an EMT. Since he was also into guns he would describe the different shooting he was called to.

Seems one involved an ex-wife who use to be the punching bag for her "gremlin" husband. Because she had a restraining order and had moved into a trailer park trying to hide out from the abusive "gremlin", she was given a 22 Ruger Single Six loaded with the 22 mag. cylinder.

Seems Gremlin comes to her trailer, is kicking in the door, while she is talking to 911 screaming, she finally takes the gun and shoots through the hollow core door.

When the police arrived, they find the man still standing up between the screen door and the hollow core door. Seems the screen door had hooked up under his belt which kept him standing.

According to my buddy, the coroner described the six holes as being "golf ball" sized coming out the gremlin's back. Nice small entry wound, but large, freaking, holes in the back. He was dead after the first shot!

My personal experience has been trying it jack rabbit hunting. Discovered that it didn't leave a whole heck of a lot. So, out of a good quality gun, good barrel length, I feel this is one heck of an attitude adjustment tool!

I wouldn't bother using the 22 mag out of a small 1-2 inch barrel. However, when you go 4" or more it is one devestating round!
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Old November 8, 2006, 01:19 PM   #18
David Armstrong
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Sure. It might not be my first choice, but it will be quite adequate for virtually all self-defense situations.
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Old November 8, 2006, 01:54 PM   #19
delzo
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Not only would I, I do and have for many many years. I go some places that I absolutely cannot carry my regular off-duty weapon concealed. But, my North American Arms mini-revolver is ALWAYS in my front pocket.

After more than a half dozen shoulder surgeries, I can't put up much of a fight with my dominant arm. I CAN shoot with it though.

I call the NAA my "fist extension". A .22 mag hits way harder than I can!
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:07 PM   #20
Playboypenguin
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I voted no, but truth be told I did used to carry an NAA Mini .22mag when I had no other option. Now that I have my Seecamp I do not have a need to do so any longer.
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:19 PM   #21
BillCA
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No

As others have said, if you're going to CCW a small revolver, go with something larger. Given the gun isn't any smaller than a larger caliber, I'd opt for the larger bullet. My "minimum" caliber that I'd carry is a .32 H&R Magnum in a 432PD - same size as the 351PD but with six centerfire cartridges.

Where does a .22 Mag (in a 2"-3" barrel) fall in my selection criteria?

I'd probably take the .22 Mag over factory loads in;
.25 ACP
.32 ACP
.32 S&W
.38 Auto
.38 S&W

People do underestimate the little .22 Mag. However when given a choice between the .22 and competent centerfire cartridge, the centerfire usually wins.
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:20 PM   #22
Dino.
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Would I? ... absolutely.
Would it be my first choice? ... absolutely not.
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:51 PM   #23
Magnum Wheel Man
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I pretty much agree with BILL... I have a 32 H&R Mag in that configuration, & it's pretty decient to shoot & carry...

... but I still have trouble carrying it comfortably & confidently in all situations... my NAA mini will be off layaway soon, & if things work out I'll soon have a 44 special air weight S&W... between the 3 ( & a bucket of assorted medium frame semi's ) I should be covered for most situations...

BTW... I find most FTF on 22 rimfire occures on short, long, & long rifle cartridges, & if the cause is not poor ammo to begin with, it's due to how the bullet is seated, which allows much easier contamination of the charge... the 22 Mag has a more traditional bullet seating design, & it's been my expirience that FTF incidents are much lower with the 22 mag ammo... & I agree that ( as BILL said ), a 4" barrel would be better, but a 22 mag would be my choice over the 25 & 32 ACP out of a short barrel...
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Old November 8, 2006, 06:31 PM   #24
Don P
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22-Mag

for carry, absolutely. I have a Taurus 941ULB. As some old timers have said it is a wicked round and here is some reading if you are so inclined




By Massad Ayoob

Reprinted with permission from The Complete Book of Handguns 2003.



One of my mentors was a man named Bill Jordan. The old Border Patrol gunslinger was the fastest man with a double-action revolver that I ever saw in person. He was the man who conceptualized the Smith & Wesson .357 Combat Magnum the gun he called a “peace officer’s dream.” There was one other revolver that he never get did to see, though.



A devoted and accomplished hunter, Bill had been impressed with the power of the .22 WMR (Winchester Rimfire Magnum) even out of a short pistol barrel. He wrote in his classic text No Second Place Winner ($19.85 including postage from its current publisher Police Bookshelf, P.O. Box 122 , Dept CH, Concord , NH 03302 ; 800-624-9049) about why he recommended always carrying a backup gun.



Bill did that religiously in his uniformed days. In act, I can honestly say that Bill Jordon once blew me away with his backup revolver.



The year was 1974. Bill had been retired from the Border Patrol for some time, and was working for the NRA as sort of an ambassador at large. His speaking performances always included his famous quick-draw act. Bill was putting on the show in New Hampshire . Apart of the program involved having a cop come up and hold a cocked single-action revolver on him, with finger on trigger, while Bill promised to outdraw the drawn gun and “beat the drop” with his old long-action Smith & Wesson .38 Special Military & Police revolver. Both gun, of course with loaded only with primer blanks.



I had just won the NH State Championship in Police Combatshooting, and as the resident state champ, was elected to be the guy holding the gun on (gulp!) Bill Jordan. I put my finger on the trigger of the cocked Colt Single Action Army .45 and watched his hand. I was young and cocky and thought I was pretty good, and I knew there was not way this old sixty-something guy could take me.



BANG! I was dead. I was aware of a flicker of movement of his right hand and before I could react and pull the trigger, he had drawn and fired the shot that would have killed me had his gun been loaded with real bullets. “We’ll try again,” Bill told the audience with his kind, crinkly smile.



This time I was ready. When I saw his hand move, I fired. Unfortunately, it was a dead man’s shot. Bill had drawn and fired before my Colt’s hammer could fall through its long arc. You see, this was a man who was on film reacting to a start signal, drawing and firing his S&W (and hitting the target) in 24/100 ths of one second.



“I think this boy deserves one more chance,” Bill drawled to the delighted audience. “He almost made it that time.”



Okay, dammit, this time I’d really be ready. I had taken up the slack on the cocked Colt’s trigger. My eyes were on his right hand. When it moved I would…



BANG!



“What?!? His hand didn’t move! His revolver is still in the holster! And…”



Ah, yes. “And…” And, in Bill’s left hand, was a freshly-fired Smith & Wesson Airweight Chiefs Special that he had drawn from his left hip pocket and aimed at my head before he rolled back its smooth trigger on the primer blank that would have blown my brains out had it been a live round.



I got to examine that gun later. It was the exact same two-inch Model 37 that appears in No Second Place Winner . Bill liked the sun-one-pound weight of the aluminum alloy Smith Airweight. Years later, when he was writing for Guns & Ammo , he was one of several staff writers polled on what the single ideal home defense gun would be. Alone among a field of writers who recommended .45s, Magnums, and long guns for the purpose, Bill articulated why he recommended the Smith & Wesson .38 Special Bodyguard Airweight. It was small and light enough to double as a carry gun if it had to, no matter what the weather (Bill lived most of his life in Louisiana and Texas , and appreciated concealed carry needs in hot and humid climates). It offered little leverage to a close-range assailant trying to take your gun. The Bodyguard, with its factory-shrouded hammer, was snag-free on the draw as it came from the box so you didn’t have to slice off the spur of the hammer as he had done on his personal Chiefs Airweight.



But, in the book, Bill made a telling point. He said he wished Smith & Wesson would make that same little super-light revolver in .22 Magnum caliber. It wouldn’t have the nasty kick if the hotter .38 loads in an Airweight and he was satisfied with the caliber effectiveness in flesh. When I asked him about the .22 Magnum, I believe the term he used to describe it’s power was “wicked.” This was a man who saw many bullets go through a lot of flesh. When Bill Jordan talked, believe me, I listened.



Smith & Wesson never did make exactly that gun. The Kit Gun was indeed produced in .22 Magnum, both chrome-moly blue steel and stainless. It was indeed made with two-inch barrels. However, finding a Smith & Wesson.22/32 Kit gun that has both the .22 Magnum chambering and the two-inch barrel will be a tough job indeed. Though it may have been chambered experimentally for the WMR cartridge at the factory, Smith & Wesson’s Airweight Kit Gun was made only in .22 Long Rifle to my knowledge, and never in the distinctly more powerful .22 Magnum that Jordan expressly said was what he wanted.



Smith & Wesson never made Bill Jordan’s “dream backup gun.” But Taurus just introduced it. And theirin lies a story.
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Old November 8, 2006, 06:32 PM   #25
DVC9
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The 22 Mag is a potent little cartridge.

This state also allows 22Mag to be used for deer hunting.

Would I carry it for self defense? Not as a primary weapon...

That said, I have carried a S&W Md 650, J frame 3" in 22mag on many occasions in the Kit-Gun role ,hiking, camping, or as a backup when hunting.

If you do any of these activities, thats a good reason to consider a 22mag.

A good 22Mag like the Airweight you mentioned will have much less recoil
than the centerfire calibers, which will assist in accurate shot placement and followups. 22 Mag solids are known for good penetration and have been known to defeat level II vests.

To me the primary downside of using the 22 Mag in a (Deep cover) defensive roll are that
1) Rimfire rounds are somewhat less reliable than centerfire. (Though in the mag not by much, and in a revolver you simply pull the trigger again.)

2) Should you need to, reloading is somewhat more awkward due to the small size of the cartridges. You might check to see if HKS makes speedloaders for that rev. I have some for my 650 but I don't know about the one you mention.

No matter how tough these guys think they are a properly placed mag, is going to put them through some "Changes".

There is an anecdote about the first armed female officers in NYPD, being armed with 22 Mags. As the story goes, there were indeed a few incidents of their use by officers and each time the shooting was a fatal.
It caused a stir among the Male officers who were not very happy with the 38spl round nosed lead they were issued.

The cartridge is considered , arguably, as good as anything under 9mm or 38spl.
With any of the lesser calibers the issue is going to be putting them where they need to go.

Last edited by DVC9; November 11, 2006 at 06:12 PM.
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