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Old September 20, 2008, 04:25 AM   #76
Brad Clodfelter
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Well said Danny.

I would much rather own a Marlin 39A than a CZ. But I can tell you the 39A won't out shoot a good shooting CZ.

When you get down to it, for the price, the CZ 22lr factory rifles are probably without question one of the best shooting rimfires on the market. The only other one that I can think of that would give them a run in 22lr is Savage as far as current offerings. The old Rem 541S rifles I would bet will beat them.
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Old September 20, 2008, 04:28 AM   #77
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Oh and Danny, 250-25x is what you meant for the USBR perfect score.
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Old September 20, 2008, 07:01 AM   #78
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I have never shot the 39A, but I do love my CZ. Although, on range day my 1948 Rem. 511 always finds its way there.
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Old September 20, 2008, 11:00 AM   #79
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Having spent time with both rifles in question, I would rather have the Marlin, no contest. That said, the CZ shoots tight little groups. In fact, in a recent magazine rimfire comparison, the CZ came in second place behind Anchutz for accuracy. And yes, it beat Savage.

If all you care about is accuracy, the CZ is a best buy. As far as it being junk as someone said, I disagree. Is it comparable in quality to the Marlin? Of course not. If it was, it would cost much more. The one thing you might want to watch though is that the bolt rusts easier than any I've ever seen. I live in the northwest and the CZ that I've used had to have some serious polishing done. It's owner neglected to clean and oil it after handling it in his house. At any rate, this rifle has several thousand rounds through it and still shoots sub half inch groups at 50 yards.

In comparison, my father has a Marlin 39a that he bought in the 60's. He hasn't given it any special treatment and it still looks new. In fact, it was stored under the bed for over 20 years with no case and has never had any visible rust. It will print 1 inch groups if I do my part with the right ammo.
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Old September 20, 2008, 04:39 PM   #80
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Brad C said:

"Oh and Danny, 250-25x is what you meant for the USBR perfect score."

Thanks for catching that error Brad. I corrected my post accordingly.

Danny
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Old September 20, 2008, 04:52 PM   #81
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Brad, about time you showed up.

Would you be kind enough to either PM me with your email address, or some form of contact other then the public forum?

I'd like a bit of conversation about such stuff, if you have the time, and, what was the address of the rimfire group you suggested?

Got lost in the shuffle.

IIRC, you suggested the CZ was fine as was/is, but, making it equal an Anschutz 52 or so would cost more money then it was worth?
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Old September 20, 2008, 05:00 PM   #82
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I own both. The Marlin is prettier but the CZ is more accurate. But I must confess that my 452 Varmint is chambered in .17HM2.
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Old September 20, 2008, 06:44 PM   #83
Brad Clodfelter
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Danny,

Your da man!

Socrates,

I'll send you a pm including my phone # if you like. I would love to chat with you. Hell I would love to shoot with you for that matter.

Factory 22 rimfires when talking about for the money and best buy, it's hard to top a CZ. That's why they have become so popular. The guys that own them have usually more than one as to be expected from guns that do what they do for the price.

Danny, who is one heck of a shooter mind you, and the group of guys that shoot in his area and the other shooters he shoots with in matches have done well with CZ rifles. The scores prove it from the match results. So again, CZ rifles do in fact shoot very well.

As for the better shooting rimfires that either were made or still are currently being made, but do in fact cost more money, it's hard to top these choices: Suhl 150, Anschutz 54, Rem 40X, or the Winchester 52 model rifles. These guns have proven themself in history at rimfire matches across the nation with their factory barrels. I'm kind of partial to the Suhl's, but would love to have a 40X or even a Anschutz. All of these guns I mentioned were in an elite class of rimfires when it come to the best possible factory barrels ever put on rimfire guns period. I know how accurate my factory Suhl barrel was. It would shoot groups you would have to see personally to believe.
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Old September 20, 2008, 08:15 PM   #84
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Well "one heck of a shooter" had a hard time today.

I got so into the management of the match I couldn't seem to calm down when it came my turn to shoot. I can usually tune it all out. But, not today. Anyway, I wanted to post our results to once again point out the potential of the CZs and two more last place finishes for a Marlin 39.

That Sporter Class score of Barry's (two week old CZ American) set a new club high and it would have won this year's USBR National Match in West Virginia (August). The high Sporter score at the National this year was a 227 (but, conditions are a huge factor and I don't know what they faced up there at 1000 feet this year).

Gene, bravely shot his Marlin 39 in two classes today. And, please note that he broke 200 for the first time today with a new Savage Mk II - he must have the basics down.

Here is the match report that I posted on the club website today:

For the second month in a row, we were greeted by rain at match time. Once again, it receded quickly and we got down to business.

Conditions:
Wind = 7.4 max and 2.2 avg
Temp = 70.6
Humidity = 73.3%

Place, score, shooter, rifle, scope, ammunition *(we used 10 counts as tie breakers today)

Unlimited Class
1st 240-4X, Tony Gilmore, Suhl 150, Tasco World Class 6-24X44, Eley Biathlon EPS
2nd 224-4X, Morgan Keenum, Kimber 82G, Weaver T-36 36X42, SK Std Plus
3rd 222-1X, Barry Holmes, Winchester 52D, Weaver T-36 36X42, RWS R-50
4th 221-3X, Jack Keenum, Kimber 82G, Weaver T-36 36X42, SK Std Plus
5th 209-1X, Willie Rhodes, Anschutz Mk 10, Weaver T-36 36X42, Eley Biathlon

Custom Class
1st 236-3X, Barry Holmes, Anschutz 64 MPR, Weaver T-36 36X42, Lapua Master M
2nd 234-2X, Danny Creasy, Ruger VBZ, Weaver T-36 36X42, SK Subsonic HP
3rd 201-0X, Gene Nobinger, Savage MK II BRSV, Tasco Mag IV 6-24, CCI Green Tag (3-10s)*
4th 201-0X, Peary Willard, Savage FV MK II, Barska Varmint 6.5-20X50, Aguila SV (2-10s)
5th 195-0X, Bart Harkins, Anschutz MPR 64, Weaver T-36, Eley Tennex

Sporter Class
1st 234-4X, Barry Holmes, CZ 452 American, Weaver Grand Slam 6-20X40, Lapua Midas M
2nd 227-2X, David King, CZ 452 Ultralux, Tasco 6-24, SK Std Plus
3rd 225-2X, Tony Gilmore,Savage Mk II BV, Tasco, Eley Match EPS
4th 218-1X, Willie Rhodes, CZ American, BSA Air Rifle 4-12, SK Match
5th 217-1X, Ricky King, CZ 452 Super, Bushnell Dusk to Dawn 6-18X50, SK Std Plus
6th 214-2X, Peary Willard, Savage FV MK II, Barska 6.5-20X50, Fed Champion 714 (5-10s)
7th 214-2X, Tim Blacklidge, CZ American V-16 4-16X42, Lapua Master M (2-10s)
8th 209-2X, Danny Creasy, Kimber Hunter, Weaver T-36 36X42, SK Subsonic HP
9th 209-0X, Anedra Gilmore, Savage Mk II BV, Tasco, Eley Match EPS
10th 192-1X, Randy King, Savage Mk II, Tasco 6-24, Wolf Match Target
11th 185-1X, David Hollimon, CZ 452 American, Bushnell 3.5-10, Winchester T-22
12th 109-1X, Gene Nobinger, Marlin 39, Simmons 3-9X32, CCI Std Velocity

Semi-Auto Class
1st 190-0X, David Hollimon, TC R-55, Weaver K6 6-32, Fed Auto Match
2nd 185-0X, Willie Rhodes, Ruger 10/22T, Simmons 4-12, SK Std Plus

Magnum Class
1st 189-0X, Paul Enlow, Marlin 25MN, Bushnell Sportview 4-12X40, CCI MaxiMag HP

Cheap Ammo Class
1st 240-6X, Tony Gilmore, Suhl 150 Tasco World Class 6-24X44, Eley Sport
2nd 206-0X, Tim Blacklidge, CZ Varmint, BSA 6-24X44, Federal 510
3rd 202-0X, Barry Holmes, CZ 452 Varmint, Weaver Grand Slam 6-20X40, Federal 714
4th 198-0X, Danny Creasy, CZ 452 FS, BSA 36X44, Eley Sport
5th 184-0X, Anedra Gilmore, Savage Mk II BV, Weaver V-24, Federal 510
6th 126-0X, Gene Nobinger, Marlin 39, Simmons 3-9X32, Federal Bulk

Tony shot a club high for Cheap Ammo Class and Barry used his new CZ 452 American to return the favor in Sporter Class.
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Old September 20, 2008, 08:32 PM   #85
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However,

I want to say something about that 39A. It has a fine Williams receiver sight on it and it is super reliable.

My little 110 pound daughter took a shine to it a few years ago in her early teens and she chose it to compete with in a match we played at that time.

It was called Rapid Fire Rimfire and it consisted of speed shooting strings of animal silhouettes at 25 yards against a stop watch. Of course, the goal was to achive the lowest aggregate time. Semi-autos, pumps, lever actions, and bolt guns all shot against each other and we had worked out a marvelously accurate handicapping procedure for putting the slower actions on a par with the faster actions and we used a similar procedure to equalize scoped and iron sighted rifles.

She cleaned many a seasoned shooters clock with that Marlin 39A. I think some were glad when she went off to college.

Tack driving bench guns? No.

Great handling hunting and plinking rifles? Yes.

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Old September 21, 2008, 02:39 AM   #86
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I have a CZ "Lux" I bought for less than $300 specifically for the Rimfire Sporter Match at Camp Perry.

I've heard the CZs referred to as "The Poor Man's Anshutz", and I believe it.

Plenty of CZ rifles on the firing line two summers ago. Not so many Marlin 39As.

As people have already mentioned, the CZ has an adjustable trigger, floated barrel, and no external hammer.

An article over on Gunblast.com about Paco Kelly's "accu-rzr" mentions that CZs have match grade chambers. Very tight.


I'd love to have one of those Marlins though...
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Old September 21, 2008, 04:12 AM   #87
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Hi Brad

Give you a ring tomorrow. Sorry I had a no people day today, and, work scheduled tomorrow canceled, which is a good thing.

I think in our prior discussions you mentioned that putting a matchgrade barrel on a CZ was like putting lipstick on a pig.
It still didn't make it a 52, etc.

Let's just say you had one of the best gunsmiths in the world as a friend, and, you wanted to make the most accurate 22 in the world, for the least money, how would you do it?
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Old September 21, 2008, 05:29 AM   #88
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That's a tough question.

Here goes.

Custom turbo, Rem 40x or Suhl 150 action(Suhl already has a 2oz factory trigger) turbo or 40X will need a Jewell trigger

I personally don't think the action is near as important as the barrel. But those actions seem to be good ones. The turbo or the 40x will be the thicker, beefier actions.

Benchmark 2 groove 16.5" twist barrel, Broughton 5C 16" twist barrel or Shilen 4 groove ratchet rifled barrel Any of these barrels should be a great choice.

McMillan Edge stock pillared and bedded by somone who knows what they are doing.

Hoehn tuner with additional weights on the end of the barrel.

Best Smiths - I would go with either Roger Brock or Gene Davis. Gene Davis smithed the rifle that won the 2008 ARA Nationals. Roger Brock smithed the gun that got a very close 2nd.

Here's a list of equipment that was used at the 2008 ARA Nationals. That list has the shooters numbered in the order they finished.

http://ara.benchrest.net/2008/2008_N...0Equipment.htm

If you will note, 5 out of the top 10 finishes were shooting the new Shilen 4 groove ratchet barrels. They are said to be a killer barrel. But the Benchmark and Broughton took the top 2 spots.

Here are the scores if interested. I have personally shot against Joe Besche twice now, and can tell you that man can shoot with the best of them day in and day out.

http://ara.benchrest.net/2008/2008_N...%20Results.htm

The top shooters and guns in the world were at that match. Some of these guys have guns that cost in the $3000 to maybe even $5000 range. It all depends on who smithed the gun and how much the owner wants to put in the rifle. Some of these guns have well at $1000 just in the stock alone counting the paint job. These guns are extremely accurate. They are very capable of consistantly hitting a dot about the size of this * at 50yds just to give you a better idea.

Most of the one piece rest will cost between $700 to about $1000. Then you have to figure your scope. Most have Weaver T36 scopes with Leupold 36's being the next most popular. The ammo is what really costs. Eley black or red box is about anywhere from $11 to $16 a box. The most expensive Lapua ammo will run you right at $22 a box. These guys buy it buy the case(s) to stock up, and to save a little money from the dealers on the single box prices I listed.

Last edited by Brad Clodfelter; September 21, 2008 at 06:20 AM.
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Old September 21, 2008, 05:50 AM   #89
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Here's a picture of the kind of guns that were at the ARA Nationals. I took these last year up in Wright City, MO where they have the ARA Nationals each year in Sept.

Most of these guys use one piece rest.

That red and black stock is a McMillan Edge stock.



That's a huge range. They have 60 benches there where that picture was taken from. They have another 20 benches up on top the hill where they have most of their monthly ARA rimfire matches.

Here's the website for the range. It's actually called the Bench Rest Club Of St. Louis, but really it's in Wright City, MO.

http://www.shootingstl.com/safety.htm
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Old December 4, 2008, 04:00 PM   #90
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Late for the party...

...and this is my first post on this forum

I own both a CZ Lux and a first year production 39A and thought I would chime in with several things that, I am surprised, have not been mentioned. The CZ Lux is more accurate, yes. That is only part of the performance of the package as a whole in the field, however.

I would pick a 39A any day because:
1) I like tang mounted peep sights for the extra long sight radius. You can never mount one on a CZ bolt gun.
2) The 39A simply points better - like a shotgun. This is why Annie Oakley could shoot at glass balls tossed in the air
3) The 39A will hold 25 .22 Shorts and waaaay more LR than the CZ.
4) The 39A is quieter. You can easily tell the difference with .22 Short ammo. This is an advantage for small game hunting. I think it is because of the the amount of metal in the receiver and its shape. I have tested them side by side.
5) The 39A is a takedown and will fit in the *trunk* of my Jeep Wrangler.
6) The 39A will shoot crappy ammo OK.
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Old December 21, 2008, 12:24 PM   #91
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I bought my son a CZ 452 and since then I (owning only Remingtons) have spent a fortune trying to outshoot him, so has other members who are stuck on brands also. A friend shoots only Ruger and has done everything from completely customized Volquartzen without a Ruger part left in it to you name it. I bought a 453 to see if it would shoot and it darn sure did but it wasn't a Remington and my son didn't like the adjustable trigger so I sold it.
The thing is the CZ is more forgiving on hold and ammo than anything we shoot, the 10/22 would probably be next. I had a Kimber that was a tack driver but you had to almost sing to it before firing to be consistent.
The only thing negative about the CZ line is the sights are not removable on models I've seen, the 452-3 don't come with them.
Also the best reasonably prices ammo we have found is the Wolf or SK Standard Plus which makes the Wolf. Eley Tenex may shoot a little better but I'm not capable of shooting better than .25 to .5 consistantly at 50 yard and the Wolf costs 60% less.
Even though the Wolf will shoot well in about anything and of courxe better in some that's not to say you shouldn't experiment, I have a Rem 513t that likes Rem Subsonic as well or better, the CZ will shoot Wallie World Federal Champions out to 100 and the last we bought was 12.80 a brick.
I still shoot Remington, nostalgia or what.
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Old January 22, 2009, 10:42 PM   #92
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Anyone who thinks a Marlin 39 will consistently outshoot a CZ452 evidently hasnt shot CZ ....I have owned the Marlin it shot ok (1 1/4" @50 yds avg was its best....my CZ on the other hand will turn in 1/2" groups avg at that range....I guess thats why you see so many Marlins at the benchrest matches I have also ruined many a Savage,Sako and Remington owners day with my CZ
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Old January 23, 2009, 01:25 AM   #93
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Quote:
I would pick a 39A any day because:
1) I like tang mounted peep sights for the extra long sight radius. You can never mount one on a CZ bolt gun.
2) The 39A simply points better - like a shotgun. This is why Annie Oakley could shoot at glass balls tossed in the air
3) The 39A will hold 25 .22 Shorts and waaaay more LR than the CZ.
4) The 39A is quieter. You can easily tell the difference with .22 Short ammo. This is an advantage for small game hunting. I think it is because of the the amount of metal in the receiver and its shape. I have tested them side by side.
5) The 39A is a takedown and will fit in the *trunk* of my Jeep Wrangler.
6) The 39A will shoot crappy ammo OK.
1) Receiver mounted peep sights are available for the CZ bolt guns. I've got one and it works very well. More about the sight radius later on.

2) I think that how a gun "points" has to do with how it fits a particular shooter. It may very well be true that many shooters find that the 39A is more easily shot offhand than the average CZ bolt rimfire. However, the CZ452 is not one rifle, it's a family of rifles with a variety of barrel lengths, triggers & stocks so it's hard to talk about the pointability of the line as if all of the rifles will handle similarly.

3) If "high-capacity" is the goal, I wouldn't choose either the CZ or the 39A.

4) I have a sneaking suspicion that my two CZ452 rifles are much quieter than any 39A. They came from the factory with 29" bbls. Not only does that reduce the report considerably, it also means that the sight radius when using a receiver peep sight is just over 31". I don't know if that beats the sight radius of a 39A with a tang sight, but it's certainly not shabby.

5) Portability/takedown is not the strong suit of the CZ bolt rifles.

6) I can't say that I've done a lot of testing with "crappy ammo", but I can't see why a CZ rifle would perform any poorer than a 39A does when using it.

I think what it comes down to is that if a person likes the 39A he should get one. But he shouldn't get one thinking that it's likely to outshoot the CZ rimfire rifles. It might, but that seems not to be the rule.

Furthermore, the CZ rimfire rifles come in a lot of different flavors, if one model doesn't fit a shooter's requirements (not enough sight radius, doesn't point well for that shooter) the odds are that there's another model that will better suit his needs.
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Old January 23, 2009, 11:10 AM   #94
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Quote:
Is it comparable in quality to the Marlin? Of course not. If it was, it would cost much more.
Yes, I know this is an old thread

However , If the CZ was built in the U.S. it would indeed cost much more. Look at what the "old" Remington 541 used to cost in the mid 1990s compared to what CZs cost today and the CZ is not such a bad deal. Or to look at it another way if CZ had been building lever action 22s for well over a 100 years they would undoubtedly cost less than our 39s.

The 39 has a cult status which is one of the most loyal in all of rimfire rifles. Most of it understandable , but there are those that insist it is the BEST of everything - accuracy , reliability , smoothness , balance , workmanship and any other attribute you can think of.

Owning more than a few rimfires including a 39 and some CZs the 39 stands out as the fun plinker. The CZs trounce the 39 in a pure accuracy constest. And either of the CZs are far easier for me to shoot standing with no support.
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Old July 12, 2009, 08:07 PM   #95
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CZ 452 is excellent choice

I've been shooting for about fifty years and have owned a CZ 452 for three. Anyone who claims it is not a quality rifle or is not accurate, doesn't know what they are talking about. It is extremely accurate and the quality is exceptional. I have shot over ten thousand rounds through mine and it is still the most accurate gun I've owned. The target I have attached is an example of what it will do at 50yrds. I have many more like this. The CZ452 is a great gun. You won't regret buying one.
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File Type: jpg Target 4.jpg (212.9 KB, 322 views)
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Old July 12, 2009, 09:20 PM   #96
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Good shooting Fredmgtn!

And welcome to the site!
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Old December 14, 2009, 12:10 PM   #97
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Help me out

I have a 39A which I like for squirrel and such.

I've been looking at getting one of the 452s. Probably in a 17hmr instead of the 22 since I already have the 39A. I was just wondering if any of you had experience with the different models of 452? (Heavy barrel vs the longer tapered barrel models)

If you think this should be a new thread just let me know and I'll start it, but I knew there are already alot of 452 owners commenting in here so I thought I'd start here.
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Old December 14, 2009, 01:26 PM   #98
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The CZ 452, or 453 is the way to go. I have a 452 Varmint in .17HMR that is a really accurate rifle. I did drop a Timney trigger into it. The stock trigger was fine, but the Timney has a cleaner break and lighter pull to it.
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Old December 14, 2009, 04:50 PM   #99
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I think I've narrowed it down to either the 452 American or Varmint. I made some calls earlier & one local dealer has one of each, so I'm goin to go take a look at them in person & see what I think. The American is a little cheaper. $30 bucks or so.
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Old April 22, 2011, 08:06 AM   #100
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Marlin 39A vs CZ 452

I own a CZ 452 Ultra Lux. I consistently shoot one inch circles at 50 yards using a Simmons 3-9x scope. I have become fascinated with the Marlin 39A and found this thread. Does anyone have first-hand experience shooting both guns?
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