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Old March 1, 2008, 01:35 AM   #51
skeeter1
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Quote:
"There is no way a Marlin Model 39 lever action can match that kind of day in, day out accuracy.

Wanna bet?"
Well, it's no Winchester 52 or Anschutz, but don't ever bet money against a guy with a 39. I've only owned (and practiced) with my 39 for 37 years, and the older it gets, the smoother the trigger gets, too. I'm not bragging, but just saying, I can make quarter-sized holes with it at 50-100yds all day long.

They're great rifles, and true pieces of Americana.
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Old March 1, 2008, 10:23 AM   #52
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The CZ 452 and 453 are very good shooting rifles for the money. It would be difficult to consistantly find a better shooting bolt action 22 rifle out of the box for the price. Note I said "for the price" as there are better shooting 22 rifles out of the box for a higher price. I'm looking forward to acquiring the Remington 547 in the coming months when they start hitting the stores and it might well shoot a little better. I'd take a good Remington 541-S anytime over the CZ. They were priced pretty much like the CZ's are now 20 years ago.
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Old March 2, 2008, 03:20 AM   #53
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Quote:
As for the CZ, I personaly thing they're junk and would never own one.
See, that's just plain old ignorance talking there. I mean, you can think that, but to anyone who owns the CZ 452 or has shot one, just the opposite is obvious. I have a buddy who just got a 39A, and he and I are planning to do a comparison. Should be innerestin'....
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Old March 2, 2008, 10:25 AM   #54
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I don't shoot it much anymore, but back in the day, my Marlin 39a would shoot dime sized 10 shot groups all day long at 25 yards. I never tried any longer distances because I didn't have a place out back to shoot longer.

I've never shot a CZ, but the ones I've seen couldn't be called junk. And yes, Skeeter, I know you did correct that wording.

Most 22's will shoot a lot better than the person holding them anyway. For all the talk about how inaccurate a 10/22 is, mine are accurate enough stock out of the box to kill a squirrel as far away as I'm willing to shoot at one. I did kill one once with my Marlin at 75 steps, but I'm not sure who was more surprised, the squirrel or me. I was a lot younger then, and my eyes were sharper.
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Old March 2, 2008, 11:07 AM   #55
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jhansman - You need to read the "rest of the story" before passing judgement on old resurrected posts and before making statements like, "See, that's just plain old ignorance talking there."

skeeter1 has seen the light:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...1&postcount=41
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Old March 2, 2008, 11:22 AM   #56
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OK, my bad. It was late when I posted, and you're right, I hadn't read his amended post. Duly noted.
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Old March 2, 2008, 06:48 PM   #57
sophijo
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39A

...am I right in thinking that what's really amazing is that a lever gun can "run" with the bolt action dogs?
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Old June 12, 2008, 07:44 PM   #58
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Okay, I'll revive this post. It's not too old.

I don't own, nor have I shot either a CZ-452 or Marlin 39A . But I'd love to own both one day ! As I said, I have no experience with either, but given all I've gathered over the years, I'd say unless you get a screwed up example, either should be capable of sub-MOA accuracy. That is certainly nothing to sneeze at or complain about. I'd bet a lot of folks can't take advantage of the full mechanical accuracy anyway, but it is fun to try of course.

I plan on picking up a CZ Trainer myself in the next few weeks and shoot with only the irons for a while. Should be a lot of fun. Then I'll add a 39A later.
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Old June 12, 2008, 08:13 PM   #59
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Quote:
CZ 452 American with 4X scope at 25 yards, last Saturday, very windy. The top right circle is five shots. The middle and bottom circle are 3 shots each. All three circles were shot off the bag. The squirrels were shot unsupported.
My CZ outshoots my Browning BLR and Ruger 10/22. I think it is about equal to my Browning A-bolt in the accuracy department. I would have to get a higher power rimfire scope to find out which one was better. Sorry, I have not owned, nor shot the Marlin.
I can replicate that group with my 39 golden A at 25 yards with open sights shooting 22 shorts for petes' sake! Probably 3 or 4 times a month I set up a target in the backyard (about 33 yards) and just plink with my 39 and I can get quarter sized groups with it on a rest with open sights and shorts. A 4 power scope? Forget about it! By the way, who's friggin idea was it anyway, to compare a bolt action gun to a lever gun in the first place (even though it's one of the best lever guns ever made, and THE BEST lever gun I have ever shot)? I'm sure that the CZ is a fine gun in its' own right. But just because it is an accurate gun doesn't mean it's in the same league as a lever gun that may possible shoot just as well if not better than that very weapon. Just think about that for a minute, we are arguing over which of the 2 guns is better. One being a lever and one being a bolt. That in itself is a true testament to the quality of the Marlin 39A.
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Old June 12, 2008, 09:24 PM   #60
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I have one of each. The Marlin will shoot fairly consistent dime sized 5 shot groups with Remington Golden Bullet bulk pack from Walmart at 50 yards. The CZ will only do that with a premium ammunition although I have had good luck with Federal AutoMatch which is only a little more expensive than the Remington. My .22's are for plinking so the one that shoots the smallest groups with the cheapest ammo is the one I like best because I can afford to shoot it more.

My CZ is a trainer w/Brook's trigger kit and basically everything else he sells for the CZ's. It has a 3x9 scope on it now and that scope was on the Marlin. I took it off to put a set of XS Ghost rings on the Marlin.

The 39a I bought used 4 years ago and didn't do anything to it. It was made in 86 and didn't look like it had seen much use before I bought it.

If I had to sell one the CZ would go and the Marlin would stay, but neither are going anywhere. They are both great guns. Actually I was looking for a used 39a since I just couldn't bring myself to spend the price of a new one. After looking for close to a year for one at a reasonable price I stumbled on the CZ's and Gander Mountain was having a sale so the Trainer came home. Shortly after that I moved to a new city and within a week of being there I walked into a gun store and found the used Marlin 39a I had been looking for. $185 later I was out the door with it. After shooting it I decided I should have just bought a new one since it would have been worth every penny.
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Old June 13, 2008, 06:22 AM   #61
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Just bought a NIB Marlin 39.

Problem I see with most every CZ I've ever seen is corrosion coming from the sleeve they use for the front sight and just plain overall crude fit and finish-------not that any of that makes them bad shooters.

They still have to come a long way before I'll even own one.
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Old June 13, 2008, 09:22 AM   #62
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22 Rifles

I just came in the house. I shot 200 ronds of CB long's at a 2-inch gong at 50 yards with my Winchester 9422. I own over a dozen different 22 rifles. I own some Kimber of Oregon rifles, I just bought a LH CZ 452, I have a Marlin lever action 22 along with my Winchester.

First of all for ultimate accuracy the Kimber is king(Anschutz is also a dandy).

Your question is a bit unfair. IMO the bolt action will usually be more accurate than the lever. So if accuracy is strictly your criteria then you should go with the CZ.

However for me there is a fun factor in shooting a 22 rifle. That is why my favorite 22 rifle to shoot is an open sighted Winchester 9422. All of my bolt rifles are a bit more accurate than the 9422, but not as much fun to shoot or hunt with.

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Old June 13, 2008, 10:10 AM   #63
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I have a 452 Special in 17.HMR with a trigger job I did myself using an Eric Brooks trigger kit. It breaks the shot at 1.5 lb. It is topped with a 6-24X42 scope. From the bench, on a calm and not very hot day I can put a hole in a golf ball with the first shot, every time at 200 yards.

How's that for junk?

P.S. Those who call CZ "junk" out of ignorance: CZ was founded in 1919 as a military small arms factory and it has a long tradition in firearms innovation. For example the CZ75 semiauto pistol they make (one of the original wonder-nines) it is so successful, it has long passed the 1,000,000 production mark, it spawned several clones (Baby Eagle and Armalite AR-24 are just two of them), it is in service with more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world and it is the standard-issue NATO sidearm. Would you call that junk too?

Oh, and if it makes your nationalistic pride feel better: CZ is American owned and American managed. It is the only small firearms company in the world owned and operated by a woman. Her name is Alice Poluchova and she's a heck of a hunter and a shooter.
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Old June 13, 2008, 02:24 PM   #64
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452 @ 50, 5 shots of Federal 510....a buck a box ammo!

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Old June 13, 2008, 07:22 PM   #65
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77/22

Typical group from my Ruger 77/22--just as it came out of the box with NO modifications---10 shot group @ 50 yards with inexpensive bushnell banner straight 4X scope---just under 1/2"---it does this very often with a number of different loads.



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Old June 13, 2008, 07:48 PM   #66
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Also stock out of the box – including stock trigger:



Looks like whatever one gets will work fine; but the price/performance of a 452 can’t be beat.

The bone-stock (including trigger) Varmint is also accurate:



I have other CZs and Brnos that perform as well.
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Old June 13, 2008, 08:17 PM   #67
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Quote:
Problem I see with most every CZ I've ever seen is corrosion coming from the sleeve they use for the front sight...
I noticed a white substance exuding around the joint, but it didn't appear to be corrosion. I cleaned it off and there was no pitting or other damage under it or in the joint between the barrel and the sleeve. Applying a good bit of CLP, letting it set and then wiping off the excess seems to have cleared things up--there's been no recurrence.

By the way, the joint between the sleeve and the barrel on my rifle is so well executed that I didn't even realize the sleeve wasn't part of the barrel until the incident with the white exudate.
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Old June 14, 2008, 01:40 AM   #68
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I've got a CZ 452. It's a GREAT 300 dollar rifle(kind of sick when your scope costs more then your rifle)

Yes, it drives tacks.
It's not a 50 yard Anschutz 64 or 54.....

And, it costs 1/3 the price. If you can shoot better then a 1/2 inch, get a real rifle...

PS
It's a great training rifle for it's bigger brother:

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Old June 14, 2008, 09:22 AM   #69
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I have the CZ 453 American myself- the version with the set trigger and without the iron sights that my eyes can't see well enough to use any more anyway. Insert big sigh here. Anyhoo, as far as apparent quality, fit and finish go, it's as good as anything I've ever handled. And it groups well enough to make me ALMOST look like a good shot, say about half an inch for five shots at 50 yards when I do my part. I think it might open up a bit if you shoot fast enough to heat the barrel, but it's hard for me to tell. Maybe the heavy barrel varmint model is better in this regard. If anyone knows, please tell me.

I have also always lusted after the Marlin 39. This is, and always has been, a premium rifle. In the old days their ads were along the lines of "Yeah, it costs more, but so what? It's worth it."

There have always been shooters who agreed with that. One such was Annie Oakley; it was her exhibition rifle of choice. 'Nuff said on whether the Marlin is accurate, I think.
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Old June 14, 2008, 10:53 AM   #70
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Not to hijack the thread: But, CZ owners:
What ammo does your CZ like the best?
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Old June 14, 2008, 01:32 PM   #71
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Mine likes the heavier rounds with 20 grain bullet from Hornady over the regular 17 grain.

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Old June 14, 2008, 09:15 PM   #72
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Mine shoots the Wolf Match Target well. It will put them all in the same ragged hole @ 50 yards if I can manage it.
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Old September 18, 2008, 09:55 PM   #73
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where are the pictures of the group spots from the Marlin 39a's out there???
(I just bought one....cant wait)
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Old September 18, 2008, 10:52 PM   #74
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The United States Bench Rest Association has an official bench rest target that consists of 28 bulls (3 for sighters and 25 for score) that each have a tenth of an inch 10 ring. It is fired at from 50 yards in 20 minutes with a possible score of 250-25X using heavy weight unlimited, medium weight custom, and factory sporter weight .22 rimfire rifles. We have been having local rimfire benchrest matches for almost a year now. My shooting passion is all about rimfire sporters and I have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the high and low end factory sporters shoot it out.

For what it's worth, here are our results in Sporter Class since we started these matches in 2007:

November 2007

223-2X Danny Creasy, CZ 452 American, Swift 6-18X44, SK Pistol Match
215-4X Barry Holmes, Cooper 57-M, Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14, SK Pistol Match
214-3X Willie Rhodes, CZ 452 American (left hand model), Simmons Master 6-18, Wolf ME
44-0X David Hollimon, Marlin 39A, Bushnell 3.5-10X40, CCI Mini Mag (Equipment Issues)

December 2007

Barry Holmes, 219-1X, Cooper 57M, Leupold VariXIII 4.5-14, SK Pistol Match
Danny Creasy, 216-2X, Anschutz 1710, Weaver V-16, Eley Biathlon EPS
Willie Rhodes, 215-1X, CZ 452 American, Simmons ProHunter 6-18, Wolf ME
David Hollimon, 212-0X, CZ Varmint, Redfield Accu-Trac 6-18, SK Std Plus
David King, 193-0X, CZ 452 Special, Leupold 4X, Winchester Supreme

January 2008

called over weather (I never will hear the end of that one)

February 2008

220-1X Willie Rhodes, CZ 452 American Barska Black Hawk 8-32X42, Wolf ME
218-1X Danny Creasy, Kimber Hunter, BSA Platinum 36X44, SK Std Plus
215-2X Barry Holmes, Cooper 57M, Leupold Vari-X III 4.5X14, SK Pistol Match
189-0X Peary Willard, Savage MKII FV, Barska Varmint 6.5-20, Federal Champion
186-0X David Hollimon, Thompson Center R-55, Simmons 22 Mag 3-9X32, CCI Std Vel

March 2008

219-1X Danny Creasy Kimber Hunter SK Pistol Match
213-1X David King CZ 452 American SK Std Plus
188-1X Tony Gilmore Savage Mk II Classic Aguila Golden Eagle

April 2008

Dwight Pilkilton, 216-0X, Biathlon Basic, Weaver V-16, Wolf MT
Danny Creasy, 214-1X, Remington 541-THB, Swift 6-18X44, Eley Biathlon EPS
Tony Gilmore, 202-1X, Savage Mk II BV, Tasco World Class Target 6-25X44, Fed Gold Metal
Willie Rhodes, 201-1X, CZ 452 American, Barska 8-32X42, Wolf Match Extra
David King, 200-1X, CZ 452 Lux, Nikko Stirling Nighteater 4-10X40, Wolf MT
Peary Willard, 199-1X, Savage Mk II heavy barrel accu-trigger, Barska Varmint 6.5-20, Fed Champion SV
Richard Strickland, 196-2X, Biathlon Basic, Swift 6-24X50, Aguila

May 2008

229-1X Tim Blacklidge CZ 452 Varmint BSA 6-24 Lapua
225-2X Danny Creasy Kimber Hunter BSA 36X44 Fiocchi 340 Biathlon
213-1X Tony Gilmore Savage Mk II Tasco Federal Gold Metal
213-1X Willie Rhodes CZ 452 American Barska 8-36X42 SK Std Plus
210-2X Paul Enlow Biathlon Basic Swift 6-24X50 Aguila Std Velocity
209-0X Barry Holmes Browning A-Bolt Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14 SK Pistol Match
209-0X Dwight Pilkilton Biathlon Basic Weaver V-16 Wolf MT
202-1X Richard Strickland Biathlon Basic Swift 6-24X50 Aguila Std Plus
200-2X Charlie Seigfried Mauser Leupold Lapua
194-0X Jon Stratton Remington Model 5 Nikon fixed 4X40 Remington Sub Sonic
174-1X David King CZ 452 Special Nikon Monarch 3-9 SK Std Plus
174-0X Peary Willard Kimber 82 Leupold Federal Champion Standard

June 2008

220-3X, Tim Blacklidge, CZ American, Weaver V-16, Lapua Midas L
219-3X, Danny Creasy, Anschutz 1710, Weaver V-16, Lapua Master M
214-0X, Willie Rhodes, CZ American, BSA 3-9, SK Match
210-0X, Bart Harkins, CZ American, Leupold VX II 6-18X40, ammo ?
209-1X, Charles Seifreid, CZ American, Pine Ridge 6-18X40, Lapua M
203-1X, Tony Gilmore, Savage MK II BV, Tasco World Class 6-24X44, Federal Gold Metal
202-0X, Peary Willard, Savage Mk II FV, Barska 6.5-20, Federal Champion Target
198-2X, David King, CZ 452 American, Nikko Sterling 4-10, SK Std Plus
197-1X, Dwight Rickard, Anschutz 1416 HB, Leupold 6.5-20, Eley EPS Black Box
191-0X, David Hollimon, CZ 452 American, Simmons 22 Mag, Wolf ME
188-0X, James Kimbrough, Savage Mk II, Tasco World Class, ammo ?
180-0X, Jack Belew, Savage Mk II, Tasco 40X, Eley Club
178-0X, Barry Holmes, Cooper 57M, Leupold Vari X III 4.5-14, SK Std Plus
177-1X, Anedra Gilmore, Savage Mk II, Tasco World Class 6-24X44, Federal Gold Metal
157-0X, Reece Stewart, Ruger 77/22, Aguila Match Black Box
118-0X, Gene Nobinger, Marlin 39, Simmons 3-9, Remington Yellow Jacket

July 2008

229 – 0X – Tony Gilmore – Savage MKII BV – Tasco World Class - Eley Match
228 – 1X – Willie Rhodes – CZ 452 American – BSA – SK Match
227 – 1X – Anedra Gilmore – Savage MKII – Tasco World Class - Eley Match
224 – 2X – David King – CZ 452 Ultra Lux – Tasco – SK Std.
223 – 3X – Richard Strickland - CZ 452 Varmint – Tasco – Eley Club
221 – 0X – Dwight Rickard – Anshutz 416D HB – Leupold – Wolf ME
207 – 1X – Peary Willard – Savage MKII FV – Barska – Aguila SE std.
197 – 3X – Ricky King – CZ 452 – Center Point – CCI Blazer
194 – 3X - Tim Blacklidge – CZ 452 American – Weaver – Lapua M
144 – 0X – Gene Nobinger - Marlin 39 – Simmons – Fed. Auto Match

August 2008

231-1X, Tony Gilmore, Savage Mk II, Tasco 6-24, Eley EPS
224-1X, Danny Creasy, Kimber Hunter, Weaver T-36, SK Subsonic
219-0X, Tim Blacklidge, CZ American, Weaver 6.5-20, SK Pistol Match
215-2X, Barry Holmes, Cooper 57M, Weaver V-16, Lapua Master M
214-1X, Bart Harkins, CZ American, Leupold 6-18X40, SK Match
212-0X, David King, Weatherby Mk XXII (Anschutz), Nikko Sterling, SK Std Plus
207-2X, Peary Willard, Savage MK II, Barska 6.5-20X50, Aguila SE Std Velocity
206-3X, Randy King, Savage Mk II, Tasco 24, Wolf MT
197-1X, Willie Rhodes, CZ American, BSA, SK Match
195-0X, David Hollimon, CZ 452 American, Bushnell 4.5-10, Win T-22
191-2X, Ricky King, CZ Ultra Lux, Center Point 4-16, CCI Blazer
163-0X, Gene Nobinger, Marlin 39-A, 9-32, CCI Std Vel
162-1X, James Kimbrough, Mossberg 802, Simmons 3-12X50, Remington Thunderbolt

Please note that the two different Marlin 39 rifles finished dead last three times in Sporter Class. They never even broke 200. I had written "equipment issues" by the 39 in the first match. But, the shooter later stated that he simply could not get his Marlin grouping tight enough to zero on the evil little green bulls. That is why he later ordered a TC R-55 and after that a 452 American. His high score was a 212 in the second match with a borrowed CZ 452 Varmint. Evidently he knows how to shoot.

I own a Marlin 39A and it is one of my favorite rifles but the ultimate test for the raw accuracy of a .22 rimfire is the USBR target and held to that standard, the 39A pales in comparison to the CZ 452 (which I own five of).

Yall be safe and have fun shooting.

Danny Creasy

PS: You are more than welcome to come shoot with us on third Saturday mornings in Sheffield, Alabama. Pics:


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Old September 20, 2008, 02:02 AM   #75
foggy
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My brother's 452 American shoot about half of its 3 shot groups under MOA @100 yards with Federal American Eagle. Match ammo shoots about the same in that rifle and is more $.

I use my 452 trainer with open sights but have gotten 2-3 inches @100 yards and the rifle can do better.

The only 39a I have shot does similar to my trainer with open sights so I would assume my shooting is the limiting factor. I think this rifle could use a scope to really test the accuracy.

A side note: nether of the cz rifles will group CCI CB longs so the Marlin 39 has an advantage there.
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