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Old April 7, 2007, 09:01 AM   #26
jsr76
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Good morning, I hate to interrupt but I just joined this morning and I don't know how to start a thread to ask a question that I have regarding bullets.
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Old April 7, 2007, 09:15 AM   #27
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its easy just click on new thread button on the top left you have to be logged in though its in the same place the post reply button you hit to post the above is.
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Old April 7, 2007, 09:22 AM   #28
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Thank You dgc940, I actually just figured it out. Thanks for helping me get started.
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Old April 7, 2007, 09:22 AM   #29
Art Eatman
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I generally fire a fouling shot before going out and getting serious, whether it's paper or Bambi...

Generally, though, running a dry patch down a clean-stored barrel does about the same thing.

, Art
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Old April 7, 2007, 09:28 AM   #30
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I agree Art when my club has its monthly shoot I go out the day before and fire five down the bore 1 it fouls the bore and 2 It confirms my load .
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Old April 7, 2007, 09:31 AM   #31
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Heres a good artical on how the professionals and national winners clean.
http://www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html
and

http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html
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Old April 7, 2007, 10:23 AM   #32
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243

Barrel cleaning is highly overrated and I personally have probably ruined two absolute hummer BR barrels. Cleaning when accuracy degrades probably extends the life of the baarrel quite a bit. Brushing and solvents/copper removers all remove some microscopic amts of barrel too. In the 243, Ive sent thousandsof rounds down range and have found the Nosler 95 partition to be an absolute one shot bullet, if you put it in the right place. Itll break both shoulders at 300 yds and will almost always exit, 150-180# deer. The accuracy out of the 2 barrels Ive got currently is sub minute and the velocity is an honest 3000+. The powder that has worked the best over the years is H4831 and lately the H4831 SC is even better because you dont need to compress the load. I wont give you the load but it exceeds Hogdons data by quite a bit, with the cases being neck sized for up to 10 reloades before FLS. Pressure is obviously reasonable and safe. All I will suggest is that you work upward in increments until your rifle is pleased, any pressure signs such as sticky extraction with the lever guns or self loaders will let you know to back off.
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Old April 7, 2007, 10:26 AM   #33
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I just picked up some of the GM top engine cleaner. Alot of the guys on the benchrest forum said thats all they use. They also said that the formula has changed and to make sure the part # was 1050002. It was $6 and some change. Alot cheaper than most of the solvents we use. They also said that it has some ammonia properties to it and was good for copper fouling as well.I haven't tried it yet but I will post the results when I do.
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Old April 7, 2007, 01:31 PM   #34
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I personally believe ruining a barrel from cleaning is due to pilot error by the person cleaning! I shoot a lot and I clean a lot about 5 times a month and my guns hold consistent tight groups. I don't use the gm top engine cleaner but I due use mercury power tune. I also confront the carbon first then the copper and I do not brush until the carbon is gone it is a bad abrasive! have you ever seen what carbon can do to a cylinder wall of a two cycle engine?
I have! and on a factory barrel if you let the carbon build up in front of the throat it will weld itself to the barrel and its not coming out period and when it gets built up bad it will re size the passing bullet to a size smaller than the bore itself. don't take my word for it buy you some good books on accuracy and br shooting and read read read. learn how to clean and let the professionals be your teacher.
here is a very good book to read and learn from
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Rifle...970614&sr=8-25
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Old April 7, 2007, 01:36 PM   #35
RERICK
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mercury power tune

dgc940, mercury power tune, Is that an outboard motor product ?
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Old April 8, 2007, 12:39 AM   #36
dgc940
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Yes its a decarbon for removing carbon deposits in the combustion chamber and the piston ring lands from 2 cycle engines. some of the bench rest guys use it. we also have omc engine tuner at our shop. same thing differant brand
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Old April 8, 2007, 02:51 PM   #37
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Had good luck with 3031 in the 243's.
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Old April 9, 2007, 11:27 PM   #38
george tarleton
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.243 cleaning info

wow! what a lot of feedback/info on the cleaning issue! it seems that the fouling shots for accuracy was a secret than no one was trying to keep a secret, at least for us plinkers, or is it plunkers. i am not going to chase the accuracy game because i have already seen how addicting it could become. as far as buying more guns, i don't have the time to shoot the ones i got. doesn't mean i do not think about it though. luckily, i have a wife with a lot of common sense who helps keep my gun addiction in check.
i have ordered the hornady oal guage guide and was wondering about the comparator (sp?) and the olgive issue because the point length might change but the shoulder be the same. the recommendation to get one sold me.

rangefinder- 1000 yds! bogles the mind. i am just trying to improve my minute of bambi at 100 yrs. i live in heavily wooded national forest, so 200 yds is a very long shot. 100yds is about normal.
thanks to all for the input. always interesting to read from folks that been doing it longer. also this is a great forum. very little flaming, just folks sharing their passion.
george t.
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Old April 10, 2007, 07:04 AM   #39
RERICK
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Hey George,
You can never have too many guns or fishing poles. LOL
Yes I would get the comparator
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Old April 10, 2007, 08:07 AM   #40
dgc940
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if it shoots like you say 1rst 3 rounds is 1 inch apart at 100 and worst case was that was a 3 inch spread and a 100 yd is what you want it's still a deer killer!
Also George I dont think bullet oal is going to bring your groups down from 2-3 inches to 1 moa the comparator is for people wanting to achieve bug hole five shot groups. measuring oal with a calliper wont vary more than I say 10-30 thousands! I use the Sinclair comparator and I have found that with premium match bullets it want vary even that much. I still think if you drop down to 80-95grain bullets it will shoot good again and at a 100 yds these bullets will drop deer dead. and if you shot all touching at 100 with the lighter bullets and with a 4 power scope it cant be you!
read this http://www.gunsandammomag.com/classics/ct0504/
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Old April 10, 2007, 09:52 AM   #41
RERICK
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Quote:
I dont think bullet oal is going to bring your groups down from 2-3 inches to 1 moa the comparator is for people wanting to achieve bug hole five shot groups. measuring oal with a caliper wont vary more than I say 10-30 thousands
.


10 to 30 thousandths is huge when your talking about OAL. I've had times when 5 thousandths made a huge difference. And as for his groups going from 2-3 to 1 moa, I would say that when he finds the sweet spot which is not rocket science at all he will probably get get sub MOA.
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Old April 10, 2007, 01:02 PM   #42
dgc940
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RERICK I agree. What I meant to say is the difference between using calipers and using comparator to judge oal.
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Old April 12, 2007, 12:56 AM   #43
george tarleton
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.243 oal

rerick and dgc- as soon as my new oal length gage comes in i will be trying 95's in nosler and combined technology.
btw, both bullets looked exactly the same, except for their color, nosler is copper and ct is black, both with molly tips. both apparently made by nosler. any significant difference between the two in the field in anyone's experience?
i am sure the black is stealthier.
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Old April 12, 2007, 07:21 AM   #44
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Quote:
btw, both bullets looked exactly the same, except for their color, nosler is copper and ct is black, both with molly tips. both apparently made by nosler. any significant difference between the two in the field in anyone's experience?
They are identical....unless you have an old batch of the Ballistic tips which had a thin jacket. Nosler later made the BT with a heavier jacket.

The CT bullets will need a bit more powder to reach the same velocities as the regular BT due to the coating.

Also, if you try to switch between the two types of bullets, your groups won't settle down until you have quite a few down the pipe.....similar to moly coated bullets.
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Old April 12, 2007, 09:22 AM   #45
dgc940
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I shot a lot of the ct's in my 22-250 before switching to Berger's and they shot very well. I couldn't really tell it took several before accuracy picked up but I could tell they did not foul my barrel as fast. I also in my case look for accuracy more than I do performance because I always aim for the neck.
I like accuracy because along with it comes confidence and accuracy and confidence is a good combination in my mind.
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Old April 12, 2007, 01:07 PM   #46
george tarleton
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.243 OAL model 88

it will be interesting to see which one my model 88 likes best. thanks for the feedback.
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Old April 15, 2007, 12:18 PM   #47
Paul B.
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I have three loads that are very accurate in my Winchester M70 and in a Ruger #1A single shot.
1. 95 gr. Nosler partition, 43.5 gr. H-4831, WW Super brass WLR primer.

2. 85 gr. Sierra BTHP, 39.7 r. W-760, FC brass, WLR primer

3. 100 gr. Hornady Spire Point (Not boatatil) 40.2 gr. W-760 FC brass WLR primer.

All three loads are .75" to 1.0" depending on the rifle.
Paul B.
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Old April 15, 2007, 10:30 PM   #48
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Just shot a dime sized group this morning w/ a new test load. 42gr of H4831SC w/ CCI Mag primer. Behind 100gr flat base Sierra spitzer. Best accuracy I have gotten so far out of the .243.
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Old April 15, 2007, 10:57 PM   #49
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Hey George, give this a try.

Take an empty case. Cut a vertical slit in the neck, barely into the shoulder, with a hacksaw. Barely seat the bullet you want to use in this case with your hands. Chamber this round in your rifle. Eject it with your hand covering the ejection port. Take it out and measure it from base to tip with your calipers. This will give you MAX OAL (over all length) for that bullet. In other words, this bullet is touching the rifling. Now you can experiment with different seating depths. I've found that my rifles usually gives best accuracy .030" away from the rifling. But you'll just have to experiment as to what shoots the best out of your gun. This method works very well and you don't have to waste money on a Stoney Point guage.
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Old April 16, 2007, 01:01 AM   #50
george tarleton
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.243 oal

thanks for recent input. i have already bought and used a stoney point oal gage. i got results that surprised me. all the other methods i tried came out shorter than what the stoney pt read. must have something to do with it being a lever action or the way i was doing it. it was sure easy to use and read. i am going to try the lnew oal length in the next few days, i hope. i am starting at 0.02 back, then 0.030, then 0.04 and see what happens.
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