The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 29, 2006, 11:12 PM   #1
george tarleton
Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2006
Posts: 25
.243 reloading help

i am having a reloading problem. i have a winchester model 88 in .243. with a 4x32 redfield scope. i have found an accurate load for an 80 grain bullet, all rounds touching at 100 yards. but i have yet to find an accurate load for 100 grain bullet for deer hunting. i have tried hodgdon h480, h4895, and imr 4831 from minimum to maxium loads. i have used nosler 100gr and rem 100gr. i have used c.o.l. from 2.65 to 2.71. the smallest group i have been able to get from sandbag rest is a three shot triangle about 1 inch apart. after that the group starts spreading like a sunflower. i have tried cleaning the barrel between shots and waiting a few minutes between shots to let the barrel cool. nothing seems to work.
and suggestions? i am incredilby frustrated. feel free to email me.
thanks- george tarleton
george tarleton is offline  
Old September 30, 2006, 03:12 PM   #2
Lycanthrope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2001
Location: PA
Posts: 1,752
I seat my .243 out as close to the lands as possible without touching (as long as they fit in the magazine).

Then with the same bullet, I load 6 rounds each in .5 grain powder increments over a span of about 3 grains. Shoot the batches for groups. Rifle barrels vibrate and you need to find the sweet spot.
Lycanthrope is offline  
Old October 4, 2006, 08:15 AM   #3
trigger45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 1999
Location: TEXAS,USA
Posts: 280
me too

my .243 rem 700 wears a 4x32 leupold. just started reloading for it. wonderful
caliber. i use a max load of 42.0 grains of h4831 this is the max load in the hodgdon manual. so far im using the hornaday 100 gr soft point. want to get some coreloks just cause there cheap.
__________________
5.56x45, .243win, 6.5x55SE, 6.8 spc, .270 win, 9x19mm,.45acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga.
I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.
trigger45 is offline  
Old October 4, 2006, 08:56 AM   #4
arkie2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 3, 2006
Posts: 475
For what it's worth the Sep issue of American Rifleman has an article in it about reloading for the "other .243" also known as the 6 mm Remington the author mentions that the .243 Win. is finicky to reload. The author uses H4350 to reload the 6 mm and Barnes also lists H4350 as the preferred powder in .243 Win for it's 95 grain bullet. Maybe it's worth a try. I'm thinking about getting a varmint/deer rifle next and the .243 fits the bill so I'll be interested to see how it goes for you. Good luck.
arkie2 is offline  
Old October 4, 2006, 10:20 AM   #5
Ausserordeutlich
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 996
Could be that your Win 88 won't ever group 100 gr. bullets as well as it does 80 gr. bullets. What's the twist?
Ausserordeutlich is offline  
Old October 4, 2006, 11:49 AM   #6
Diggler
Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Posts: 16
I have heard that the Sierra 85gr HPBT is an AWESOME whitetail bullet regardless of the pre-conceived notions of HP bullets and deer; I have some and we're going to give it a try this year. Maybe it will group better in your rifle.

Read the reviews here...

Sierra 85gr HPBD at MidwayUSA
Diggler is offline  
Old October 4, 2006, 07:28 PM   #7
amamnn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2006
Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA
Posts: 1,323
I know 4 hunters here shooing .243s that swear by the Nosler/Winchester Combined Technology bullets used with IMR 4350. Our local gunshop sells a lot of both. Just for fun I tried some CTs in my 6mm match rifle and they were pretty accurate for a hunting bullet.
__________________
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal
amamnn is offline  
Old October 8, 2006, 12:27 AM   #8
george tarleton
Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2006
Posts: 25
to all that have posted replies so far, thanks. i have be trying imr 4831 at the present with nothing promising so far. the twist is 1in 10. i know the rifle will shoot good groups because i bought a box of winchester 100gr, super x that shot i a nice tight group. i know the obvious answer is to use the winchester cartridges, but i enjoy hand loading and besides, it is presenting a challenge to get it right. i am going to try h4895 next. and if still no sucess with try some of the powders and bullets suggested. i will keep you all posted.
btw- the rem. coreloks 80 grs group very well.
george tarleton is offline  
Old October 8, 2006, 09:33 AM   #9
Ausserordeutlich
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 996
Just remember, George, if deer hunting were really difficult, then 8-yr-old girls with SKSs wouldn't be dropping those big bucks every year.
Ausserordeutlich is offline  
Old October 10, 2006, 09:54 PM   #10
george tarleton
Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2006
Posts: 25
.243 reloading saga continues

well, it goes on. i have gone through the imr powder ranges, o.5gt at a time. c.o.l. was 2.65. the best group was about 2" between shots. usually i would get two close together then two flyers. i am going to take the best two powder loads and try different c.o.l.'s out to about 2.70. then i will switch powders and try h4895 which is on hand. have to try h4350 also. mucho frustrating.
questions- should i clean the barrel between shots? should i let the barrel cool between shots? my reason for not doing so is that i figure that when i am hunting and get a shot (assuming i ever see buck when i have a rifle in my hands) and if need to take a second shot, i will not be taking the time to clean or cool the barrel.

by the way, i have seen two bucks but both times i was on my horse with no weapon and they were too near houses. wife and neighbors frown of carrying a rifle over my back when we ride.
for ausserodeutlich- know where i can rent an 8yr old with an sks? got to be better at this than me.

Last edited by george tarleton; October 10, 2006 at 10:02 PM. Reason: add something i forgot
george tarleton is offline  
Old October 10, 2006, 10:04 PM   #11
Ruger4570
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2005
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 2,136
I have owned a couple of 88"s,, still do and love them for some unknown reason.. They are not necessarily know as the accuracy champs. I think you will find thay all shoot minute of deer, but not necessarily minute of target. I wouldn't worry to much as they are great guns and not able to shoot (generally) alongside bolt actions,, as I said,, generally. You will just need to try all the combinations you are willing to play with,, but remember, you have to clean 88"s and their brethern the 100's from the muzzle. That may do more harm in the long run than good-
Ruger4570 is offline  
Old October 10, 2006, 10:12 PM   #12
george tarleton
Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2006
Posts: 25
ruger4570- not an accuracy champ for sure, but it is sure a nice carry gun and i have always like lever actions. i like the "minute of deer". puts thing in propective. thanks. george
george tarleton is offline  
Old April 5, 2007, 01:43 AM   #13
george tarleton
Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2006
Posts: 25
.243 OAL model 88

as the snow melts, thoughts turn to .243 loading again for my model 88. i have aquired a box of 100 gr nosler combined technololgy silver tips. in another attempt trying to find the OAL, i tried the cleaning rod method, i.e. bolt closed with no round, then measure crown to bolt face; then with a bullet held in the chamber and measure tip of bullet to crown. i am sure you understand what i mean. the odd part is that i come up with what seems to me to be a rather short OAL, 2.60! could this be right? am i doing somethign wrong? or a better way to check for OAL? any one with model 88 in .243 experience, jump on in.
still fussing with h4895. going to try h4350 next time i remember to buy some.
thanks
george tarleton is offline  
Old April 5, 2007, 02:07 AM   #14
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,294
A one inch group is plenty accurate enough for deer. If that load will shoot a consistent 1", I'd use it.
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old April 5, 2007, 09:14 AM   #15
dgc940
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2005
Location: Graham Texas
Posts: 258
Let me see??? I f I had a rifle that shot 80's good but not 100's hummmm
I believe I would try a 95 or 90 grain because I bet it's a 1in10 twist

Do yourself a favor and try imr3031
__________________
Some people say what they think!
Some say what they know!
Then there's those that think they know what they are saying!
dgc940 is offline  
Old April 5, 2007, 12:38 PM   #16
Foxman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2005
Posts: 466
95Gr Nosler with H4350 42grs and CCI BR4 primer my 243 groups very tight with this combo.
Try 25, 30, 35, and 40 thou off the rifling, mine likes .040" best. The general thing is that you have to find what yours likes best and it will like one load for sure.
__________________
Better the man suspected of being a fool keep his mouth shut, than to open it and remove all doubt.
Foxman is offline  
Old April 5, 2007, 02:14 PM   #17
T-Mac
Member
 
Join Date: January 18, 2006
Location: Townsend, MT
Posts: 99
I have "the other 243" (6MM Rem). In REM 700 VLS.
IMR4350, H4350, RL 19, IMR 4831, H 4831SC all work well for me.
To get those 95 and 100grs shooting well was touchier than the other size bullet I shoot in it ~ Berger 68.
My gun shoots 95 gr. Berger VLDs just super...but set out way too long for my magazine. Aw well,,,,,

4350...either one of them.... probably most popular powders for .243s and 6MM Rems ...at least in this part of the country.
T-Mac is offline  
Old April 5, 2007, 02:38 PM   #18
george tarleton
Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2006
Posts: 25
.243 OAL model 88

to those that have replied, thanks. there certainly seems to be a majority that favor h4350. i will try that when i get a chance to buy some.
i also have some nosler 95's i am going to try.
i would settle for 1" groups or even 2" groups with handloads, as those are certainly "minute of deer" as some sage mentioned.
guess the model 88 is pretty finicky and i just have throw enough spaghetti on the wall until somethings sticks.
any comments on the OAL on the model 88? does 2.60 OAL sound reasonable?
thanks again- george

Last edited by george tarleton; April 5, 2007 at 02:40 PM. Reason: left something out
george tarleton is offline  
Old April 5, 2007, 04:21 PM   #19
RERICK
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2005
Posts: 369
Quote:
i have tried cleaning the barrel between shots and waiting a few minutes between shots to let the barrel cool. nothing seems to work.
George,

Stop cleaning your barrel so much. Put a few fouling shots down the barrel and let it start to group and then go from there. I have been researching a little on some of the benchrest forums and thats what those guys are doing.
The main gist I got from them was that they will go to the range the day before and put a few shots down the barrel and then take it to the match dirty and they won't clean it until accuracy starts to suffer. Then they will clean it and start the process again. One guy told me he will run a dry patch down the barrel every 35 shots but thats it. I tried this at the range last week and lo and behold I'm getting some decent groups. Also do yourself a favor and pick up a Hornady OAL gauge and taylor your rounds to your barrel. You won't believe what a huge difference it will make.


http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=570611
RERICK is offline  
Old April 5, 2007, 09:59 PM   #20
hunt127588
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2006
Posts: 6
I would bet it's your twist. I too have the same issue with a CZ550 .243 which has a 1/10 twist. It hate Remington Core-Lokts in 100 gr but will shoot cloverleafs with Sierra 85 gr HPBTs. Check out the Greenhill Formula...This determines how much twist you need to stabilize a bullet:

Twist = 150 X D*D/L
Where: D = bullet diameter in inches L= bullet length in inches

For more information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling.

Also, most of the guys using .243 in tactical competition usually shoot 1/8 barrels to stabilize the 105+ gr bullets.
hunt127588 is offline  
Old April 6, 2007, 10:39 AM   #21
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
My Sako does very well with the Hornady 70-grain and the Sierra 85-grain HPBT. The one time I tried Nosler 100-grain bullets, I got more of a pattern than a group.

I've killed some 20+ whitetail with the Sierra bullet. Mostly neck shots, and mostly bucks field-dressing no more than 120 pounds.

I use 3031. My average groups run some 3/4 MOA for five shots. I occasionally get three-shot groups of 1/2 MOA.

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old April 6, 2007, 11:51 PM   #22
george tarleton
Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2006
Posts: 25
.243 OAL model 88

art, hunt, rerick- thanks for input. i was wondering about the cleaning issue. i have read several articles by craid boddington and he always mentioned doing a fouling shot before he goes hunting. so rerick's info on cleaning was really interesting.
also, thought about getting the hornady oal gauge (formerly stoney point) but been too cheap. probably would save me a lot of headache and get the right oal the first time because the different things i have tried seem to get varied results. the hornagy oal gauge has gotten good reviews.
george tarleton is offline  
Old April 7, 2007, 12:18 AM   #23
Rangefinder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 4, 2005
Posts: 2,017
I fire "the other .243" also (Rem 6mm). My target load with it is a Sierra 90gr FMJ with 37 grains of H380. That's the one I kick out to 1000 yds, and almost single-hole accuracy at 100. Just as someone said earlier, if it's doing good at 80 and getting upset at 100, try 90. It's all about dialing in just the right combination of things to bring out your rifle's best performance.
__________________
"Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?"

Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.
Rangefinder is offline  
Old April 7, 2007, 06:25 AM   #24
RERICK
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2005
Posts: 369
George You should pick up the comparetor to as its more accurate to measure from the ogive.

http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe...gin+Search.y=7
RERICK is offline  
Old April 7, 2007, 08:54 AM   #25
dgc940
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2005
Location: Graham Texas
Posts: 258
Also if your looking for accuracy out to 300 yds I would shoot flat based bullets not boat tails !

Let me also say from experiance! If you start chasing accuracy dont let the bug consume you like it did me! If it does you have a lot of money to spend ahead of you! LOL
you will have new guns and a overflowing reloading room in your future!
__________________
Some people say what they think!
Some say what they know!
Then there's those that think they know what they are saying!
dgc940 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12424 seconds with 7 queries