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Old November 5, 2000, 11:37 AM   #1
Mylhouse
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I went to the range yesterday with a fellow TFLer to try out some of my reloads. I was mostly shooting .40 out of my SIG 229 and Walther P99. Loads were Rainier 135 gr FP over 7.4 grains of SR 7625 and Rainier 155 gr FP over 11.0 grains of Blue Dot. OAL was 1.135-1.140". The SR 7625 load was very accurate, with little flash and minimal muzzle flip/recoil. However....

Holy Moly on the Blue Dot!!! My buddy, three shooting lanes over, thought I was shooting my .44 mag Redhawk when I touched off a few rounds with the stuff out of my SIG. I have NEVER fired a .40 round that had so much ferocious bite. Recoil and muzzle flip was serious (as a matter of fact, the most I've ever felt in an autoloader). The brass ejected 20-25 feet out of my P99. Muzzle flash was horrendous-I could see a fireball clearly even in daylight. I thought I was going to blow up my guns (especially the Walther), but when I inspected the brass, there were no undue signs of overpressure.

These loads were gleaned off of a post I made a week ago, from two suggestions that I use Blue Dot. I even backed off the grainage slightly from what was suggested. I cross-referrenced this data from the Alliant guide. I shot a few rounds of Fiocchi 180 gr and Corbon 155 gr for comparison and there was no comparison. Granted, I didn't have a chrono with me, but these rounds made the Corbons and the Fiocchi look like pussycats. And it's been my experience that those two are among the "hottest" of factory loads.

So is all this normal? Does all that huge flash mean that Blue Dot is burning too slow for my 4 inch barrel, and I'm wasting powder? Am I just being a candy a$$? Was I weaned on wimpy ammo, and now that I'm reloading, steppin up to what the caliber is all about? Most of all, is this load safe? Safe enough that you would run it through your GLOCK??!!



BTW, the load WAS very accurate! 2" for the Walther at 25 yards, rested, and 2.25 for the SIG. Accuracy testing was done when it was starting to get dark, so I might have been able to do even a little better.
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Old November 5, 2000, 02:33 PM   #2
bergie
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You checked this data where? I don't have any data for the Ranier bullets specifically, but according to my Alliant guide, for .40S&W, 11.5 grains of Blue Dot is a max load for a 150 gr. jhp, (in fact, that is the same as the max they give for the 10mmAuto with a 155 jhp). The Hornady manual lists 10.0 as max for their 155gr hp in a .40. Even if the brass didn't show any overpressure signs, I think I would back this load down a little more. Why waste the powder and subject your guns to the increased wear and tear of hot loads? If I had any doubts -- "I thought I was going to blow up my guns (especially the Walther)" - I wouldn't put any more of them downrange. However, I am pretty cautious with my loads and guns, usually keeping them in the midrange of the suggested load.

Anyway, it sounds exciting, and as the saying goes, if you aren't livin on the edge, you are takin up too much space.
bergie

[This message has been edited by bergie (edited November 05, 2000).]
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Old November 5, 2000, 03:19 PM   #3
Airborne
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Blue Dot has to be the most exciting powder on my bench. In a 3' ported .44 Mag, not only does it produce a giant blue fireball, but recoil is very stimulating to say the least. Accuracy is very good as well when I do my part. My advice is to use a different powder for anything but "eye-opening" loads, as Blue Dot gives new meaning to the phrase "fire for effect"! Not a pistol powder for the timid, just a fun powder for those who crave a memorable experience with every drop of the hammer! And oh by the way, you don't need to go anywhere near published max loads for this thrill...what could be better?!?

Regards,
SM

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Old November 5, 2000, 04:45 PM   #4
Big Bunny
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Sounds awful...thanks for the warning!!

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Old November 5, 2000, 06:40 PM   #5
Peter M. Eick
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Try running a full charge of blue dot out of a 10mm if you want a lot of fire! Actually at night it is kind of fun and pretty impressive, particularly with 135grn jhps!


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P229 Sport and 357 SIG, H&K P7PSP and 9MM, Dual Perfection!!

[This message has been edited by Peter M. Eick (edited November 05, 2000).]
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Old November 5, 2000, 09:05 PM   #6
WESHOOT2
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Still recommending Alliant Power Pistol in 40 S&W.

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Old November 5, 2000, 09:21 PM   #7
BILLG
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GOTTA LOVE THAT BLUE DOT.It is really Great in magnum pistol loads.I have yet to see anything rival the flame it will produce.BILLG
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Old November 5, 2000, 10:17 PM   #8
WalterGAII
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Who, other than sophomoric novices, thinks that big balls of flame and unnecessary recoil are good???
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Old November 5, 2000, 11:15 PM   #9
Cheapo
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Remember that felt recoil is caused by the TOTAL weight of stuff going out the barrel. Powders that use large-weight charges for X,XXX velocity will kick more than powders that use less mass to get the same speed.

IOW, my .357 Mag load with 125-gr bullets at 1425 fps, using 20 gr. of a certain powder, will kick exactly the same as a 135-gr bullet load at the same speed, using another powder that requires only 10 grains of powder to reach that speed...Clear as mud yet??
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Old November 6, 2000, 06:26 PM   #10
Airborne
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Since my vocabulary does not include the phrase, "sophomoric novices", (blasted public education!), I will attempt to define it for the benefit of the other TFL readers who too may be unfamiliar with the term. Here goes:
Soph'moric a. Composed of a material unlike that of the "status quo"; that which thrives on giant blue fireballs; preferring to have one's hand spanked rather than one's buttocks;

Novice n. Candidate for admission to a religious order.

Putting it all together, the phrase sophmoric novices could only mean:

...A person who worships the God of "The Giant Blue Flame!"

Come and join me at the Blue Dot alter sometime...it's definitely a religious experience!

Regards,
SM
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Old November 6, 2000, 07:16 PM   #11
Cheapo
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LOL, Airborne!

Uh, I worship at the Altar of the Blessed Yellow Orb of W-W 296.

It's nice to hear the backstops and overhead baffles at an indoor range R-R-Reverb-b-berat-t-t-te after each shot fired!

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Old November 6, 2000, 08:11 PM   #12
Peter M. Eick
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As one of those "sophomoric novices", who said that blue dot recoils more? I find it one of the softest recoiling loads in my 10mm's and that is one of the reasons I shoot it. It seems more like a push then a kick like you get with AA-5 or 231.

Besides, full load blue dot in my 10mm's is exceptionally accurate and I do my best groups with it. The blast and the flame is just a "side benefit".

If I wanted less recoil I would not shoot full loads out of a 10mm, I would go for some wimp loads out of a 40s&w. Sometimes power is what you need.

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Old November 6, 2000, 08:54 PM   #13
Waitone
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LOL. One seriously funny thread. Gotta remember Blue Dot when I reload my .45 ACP.

Sounds impressive.


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Old November 7, 2000, 12:58 AM   #14
Mylhouse
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Well, I guess I'm no longer a Freshman reloader, because I'm evolving into a "Sophomoric Novice". I'm finding that after all the flame and smoke subside, there's a nice ten millimeter hole in whatever I was aiming at. Truly satisfying.

Bergie, I don't have data SPECIFICALLY for Rainier. I was just using the data for jacketed bullets.

Weshoot, I got your message about the Power Pistol, and I plan on trying it out. I'm trying to use up the powder I have on hand first. I have AA#2, Blue Dot, Red Dot, Unique, SR7625, Scot 1500, and H110. I bought all these powders CHEAP from a guy that was retiring from reloading.

BTW, don't get me wrong, I'm not some limp- wristed pillow biter sprinkling pixie dust and complaining. This load was just certainly more harsh than I expected, and definitely more manly than any factory fodder I've tried. I'm the same guy that had my brother straw purchase me a .44 Redhawk when I was 18 (couldn't wait another 3 years). I knew nothing about handguns. I idolized Dirty Harry and Sledgehammer, but I had sense enough to know that the S&W 29 was the Redhawk's b#@ch. Ah, wisty-eyed memories of the Reagan era...Go GWB!
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Old December 3, 2000, 12:34 PM   #15
Bob C
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I've used a lot of Blue Dot in magnum revolver calibers, and in both the .45acp and Colt, usually with good results. Then I tried it in the .357SIG, and what was supposedly a median load was way too hot compared to factory, and also based on primer condition.

Same case as the .40, so maybe the decreased volume is a factor.
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Old December 3, 2000, 07:03 PM   #16
Jay Baker
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That load seems a bit stiff in a .40, to me.

I've used Blue Dot in my .41 Mag. Mdl. 57 S&Klinton, 6", with loads from 13 to 15 grs., 200 gr. Speer JHPs to 250 gr. Bear Tooth Hard Cast, and not experienced any problems. I also shoot these rounds in my Marlin lever in .41 Mag. Again, no problems and they scream out of that 20" bbl, and hit hard!

I like Blue Dot. FWIW. J.B.
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Old December 4, 2000, 02:25 PM   #17
Hutch
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That ain't nuthin'

Y'oughta see it in a hot 125grJHP in a .357 SP101. I believe it actually singed off the hair on the knuckles of my left hand! Feeeeeeeee-nominal flash, much like a hi-power photo-flash. A coupla those'll cure ya.
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Old December 9, 2000, 01:23 AM   #18
RiverRider
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dreamin'?

This thread has me wondering if I am dreaming...

I once was determined to use Blue Dot for my .41 Mag loads because my manual showed that it gave the best velocity (by a few fps). So I played with it and played with it. I was never really satisfied with the accuracy I got.

Some years later, I bought a chronograph, with the crazy idea that it would answer all my questions---about accuracy with all kinds of firearms (WRONG!). What I saw was that Blue Dot gave me erratic velocities with heavy loads. It may well have been the primers I was using, or something else---who knows---but about that time I read somewhere that Blue Dot is erratic at magnum handgun pressures, and that it was designed for the lower pressures seen with shotgun loads.

That's why I have stated in an earlier thread that I think Blue Dot is erratic for magnum handgun loads.
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Old December 9, 2000, 03:16 AM   #19
bedlamite
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Using Nosler 150gr, I've loaded up to 11.2 grains of Blue Dot for 1260 fps from my Beretta 96 Elite, but it was more consistent at 10.7gr for 1210 fps, and accuracy was better too.

Hutch, if you really want muzzle flash, you should try H110 under a 125gr in that SP..
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Old December 15, 2000, 11:25 PM   #20
Keith J
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How about 45 Super loads

This woould be a blasT!!!!!! Any one care to offer? I have a converted 45 and I love the full power stuff. I'm going to have to get some Blue Dot!
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