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Old September 16, 2006, 08:34 PM   #1
Lionken07
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what to do with a mad dog?

Im living in an apartment where the next door people have a somewhat of a mad dog. They would leave it run freely a few times a week around the hall way and basement where people wash their clothing. Now the mad dog only listen to his owner. When his owner says stop it would stop and but the problem is that sometimes the owner is not around.

Today this maddog was barkin at me for no reason when i stepped out of the car. as soon as I start to walk towards my apartment it took off. I was holding alot of baseball gear so running back to the car won't be an option (not enough time). So I took a baseball bat and put it in between me and the mad dog. it stopped him for a sec but he ran back and was going to charge in again, that was when the owner call him back. Now would you drawn in a situation like this? Im starting to get to the point where i might have to take it down next time it run after me...

I report it to the management but that is the second time. They are not doinng enough to get rid of the dog...

Last edited by Lionken07; September 16, 2006 at 09:16 PM.
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Old September 16, 2006, 09:11 PM   #2
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A good pepper spray would be would be an option,with a bear spray(pepper), being a more potent variant.Irresponsibe peopleReporting it to animal control,if you live a city's limits,could also be a possibility.

Last edited by Kas; September 16, 2006 at 09:17 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old September 16, 2006, 09:17 PM   #3
Walter
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Mad Dog

The term "mad dog" could suggest several things.
In my experience, the term "mad dog" meant a dog
with rabies. In that case, the dog must be destroyed.

But the way I read your post, you are referring to a
dog that is hostile to you, and maybe others. In that
case I would suggest a strong dose of pepper spray
when the dog gets too close for comfort.

After a few shots of pepper, the dog should get the idea.
And, just my opinion, if the dog's owner has a problem
with that, give HIM a dose of the pepper spray.

Hey, if it's your animal causing problems, you may have
to pay the piper.

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Old September 16, 2006, 09:17 PM   #4
CraigJS
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Call the cops, file a complaint, talk to others that have had problems with the dog, talk to the apartment owner. If he does nothing and you or someone else gets attacked he could be held liable. Don't use your gun unless you REALLY need to. Just some ideas..
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Old September 16, 2006, 09:30 PM   #5
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Start with the apartment manager, animal control and the cops, if that doesn't go anywhere you've got it documented that you attempted to do the "right" thing. If it continues do what you need to do to keep from getting attacked. The owner will probably b*&^% about you complaining and will probably stroke out if you beat his dog to death with a baseball bat, just be prepared for the owner to confront you no matter what you do.
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Old September 16, 2006, 09:55 PM   #6
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Pepper spray, in the foam variant. Spray it into the dog's eyes/nose and it should stop him/her. Hopefully the dog will remember you and leave you alone. Also, tell the Super (or whoever manages the property) that you've made two complaints and it's time to get a lawyer. Calling the cops, if you are in a metro area, may accomplish little to nothing, but at least your complaint is on record, so do that too.

If you are feeling really tough you can tell the owner, "That's a nice dog you have there. It'd be a shame if something happend to it."
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Old September 16, 2006, 10:27 PM   #7
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Here are some laws you might want to consider and whether a PITA dog is worth the cost of:
1. Discharging a firearm in an occupied dwelling.
2. Discharging a firearm within city limits.
3. Malicious destruction of personal property.
4. And if you tell the owner, "It would be a shame if something were to happen to your dog," makes it premeditated.

Make a complaint to the super/landlord in writing, date it, copy it, certified mail it with a return receipt. The ball's in his court. File a complaint with the police, then that is on record. I doubt it will do much good unless you can make a good case that your were fearful for your well being. Don't confront the dog's owner, or tell the owner to keep it on a leash- if something happens to the dog, you will be the first person to come to the owner's mind when he calls the police and they ask him if anyone has a beef with him.

If the dog attacks you, put a stiff foot in its ribs if you have to, i.e., it lunges at you. If you have something in your hand, use with as much force as you can. Your gun should be your last resort, such as if the dog appeared to be rabid, then you better be damned sure of it.
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Old September 16, 2006, 10:30 PM   #8
DobermansDoItGoofy
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Yorkie or a Pit Bull? Dachshund or a Rottweiler ? Hmmm...

Personally, I'd get to know the dog and the dog owner. What kind of dog is it? Is it just a little yapper threatening your ankle - or is it the prize fighter pit bull owned by the next door dope dealer? 999 times out of 1000 you can solve the problem without having to spray the dog or call an 'authority'.
I'm thinking the dog probably see's you as some sort of territorial threat and is just letting you know he's concerned and a little scared of you. Looking the dog in the eye and speaking firmly - rather than reacting in a way that encourages more aggression/barking...is likely to be helpful. Tell the owner about it - and maybe after a friendly chat and petting the dog... you will feel better and the dog will feel better.

I hope you weren't considering a firearm to be used in the situation. :barf:
On the other hand, if it's a mistrained pit bull or an apparant real 'mad dog'
and it's running loose - I'd call Animal Control.
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Old September 16, 2006, 11:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
I was holding alot of baseball gear
. Maybe I'm reaching too far here, but I'm guessing you had a baseball bat. Even a Doberman would notice if you hit one upside the head with a b-ball bat. No need for a handgun.
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Old September 17, 2006, 05:26 AM   #10
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Inform the management that now they know of the situation, both themselves personally and the apartment building owners are in for one hell of a lawsuit should the dog bite you.

If you want to be really nasty, find out what agency has the insurance for the building and inform them. They get really testy about potential lawsuits.
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Old September 17, 2006, 06:47 AM   #11
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I've replied to many, many, MANY "dangerous dog" threads in the past. You might do a search for more detail advice.

But, first of all, realize that just because a dog runs up on you, barking, it doesn't necessarily mean he/she has bad intentions. Many bark just to get attention.

Quote:
as soon as I start to walk towards my apartment it took off.
Obviously, if it had been serious about biting you it would have, instead of running off.

Beware of pepper spray, baseball bats, clubs, whatever. Again if the dog isn't ready to bite you, it won't. But if you start a fight with it THEN you may get bit (the dog feels he's defending himself---just like you or I might).

Having said all that, there's NO reason that the owner should be letting the dog run around like that,ESPECIALLY if he'snot there to supervise (it does sound like he has good contol/training on the dog). I would definitely speak the apartment management about it. If that fails, contact the local Animal Control people.
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Old September 17, 2006, 07:40 AM   #12
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I once had the same thing

I once had a neighbor that had a dog that did the same thing. Every time the dog got out it would attack someone. We tried to be nice neighbors about it because we were friends, but one day the dog dug under our fence and attacked my mother and killed one of my dogs. I know you might not want to cause any trouble, but any dog that will come after a human for no reason (like you described) needs to be taken care of. If the owner won't keep the dog on a leash at all times when it isn't in the house, you should definitely use pepper spray so at least the dog learns to fear you.
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Old September 17, 2006, 07:26 PM   #13
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legal

leash law?
Animal control

I did this once, after I was bitten. They came out and checked my bite and then found the dog and owner. If the dog is really bad, call animal control. Don't do anything to the dog. It will just make you look bad.
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Old September 17, 2006, 07:54 PM   #14
wolfdog45
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File a complaint with the police. Then if the dog comes after you again use pepper spray.
That way the cops will have on record that you tried to do something the first time without using force but that you were forced to use force this time.
that way you won't look bad for defending yourself.
You could also call animal control and have them come out when the dog is out of it's owners apartment and catch it wondering around.
And then they can see for themselves that it is a danger to the public.
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Old September 17, 2006, 09:16 PM   #15
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Talk to the owner

Be nice. Tell the owner you don't like the dog chasing you and you would appreciate him keeping the dog on leash. If he refuses you call animal control and the landlord. DO NOT use a weapon on this dog. It is not behaving as a dog will who really means to take a piece of you. It's trying to scare you off and be "alpha".

If you really want to do something, throw a 64 oz soda cup full of water on him next time he comes at you. Or carry a water pistol and give it to him full in the face.

Or start carrying dog biscuits in your pocket and make friends with him.

But do not shoot the dog. Not with pepper spray, not with bullets.

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Old September 17, 2006, 09:58 PM   #16
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I hope the obvious first steps are just a given:

1 - talk to neighbor

2 - speak with property owners/management

3 - involve animal control/police

...etc.

Whilst involving those items listed above, you'll still need to ensure you're safe. Escalate force as necessary starting at the very bottom of the continuum (as you seem to have been doing thus far). I would also stay in touch with the above-mentioned contacts to ensure there is no inaction on their part, and that they work speedily to solve the problem.

You have a reasonable expectation not to go through this sort of harassment so I would find your choice to use pepper spray more than reasonable. I can't say I'd expect you to walk around with a Big Gulp cup full of water, or a water pistol. However, if you’re willing to do so, you can definitely make that part of your force continuum.

Not only is it unreasonable for you to incur the expense of dog biscuits as a peace offering, but you do not reward aggressive dog behavior with a treat such as food or affection.
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Old September 17, 2006, 10:56 PM   #17
DobermansDoItGoofy
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Canine Therapy & Bonding ?

Of course, there is the 'Dog Whisperer' option.

Seriously, I'd put down the Ruger and give the 'Dog Whisperer' a call.

Sorry, that it's gotten to this point, but maybe now y'all can build a relationship and stuff ie. get to know your neighbor, know his dog...
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Old September 17, 2006, 11:35 PM   #18
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My dog is pretty unfriendly towards strangers or as my wife says, she loves me and tolerates her and the kids as a neccesary evil. I would never dream of letting her run loose. For several reasons, I would like to be a good neighbor, I wouldn't want to see her get hurt being the main ones. She's not visious, nor has she ever bitten anyone, mainly because I don't give her a chance to try it to see if she likes it. I wouldn't or couldn't fault someone for shooting her if I was irresponsible and let her run loose. She looks scary when she encounters a stranger. I know she's really a big baby, but I don't expect anyone else to know that she loves animal crackers, sleeps with a stuffed blowfish and is afraid of our cat.
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Old September 17, 2006, 11:47 PM   #19
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I didn't really mean he should always walk around with a Big Gulp but he could just happen to have one full of water if he knew Cujo was out and prowling.

No, definitely don't reward aggression with treats (bribes only work on humans anyway) but they sure could be rewards for backing off or sitting or whatever.

Ultimately, what you have to do is work this out with your neighbor and get your property management to get serious about their responsibitilies. I re-read your first post and since you've talked to them several times, the next conversation might involve a discussion of their liability if they continue to ignore this and that dog really DOES bite somebody at some point. IOW, they're in a position to have their collective keisters sued off, because they're just not doing their job.

Oh, and one last thing, not involving guns: don't look afraid. Don't stare the dog down, because that's an "alpha challenge" you don't want to do that. But don't show fear, don't run away. If you had run back to your car, you'd have been submitting to the dog's aggression. You did right not to run. I once had a face-off with a Doberman in my back alley and while part of my mind was gibbering about how my throat was about to be ripped out, I kept my cool and the dog did back down.

Stay safe. Stay on the collective butts of your property management, though. And call animal control if need be. I hope it works out for you

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Old September 18, 2006, 07:21 AM   #20
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One of our neighbors back in California had a big black German Shepherd that would go utterly berserk behind a wood fence whenever anyone walked by, and absolutely stark raving mad when anyone with a dog walked by. And this was no "yip yip," it was a rather intimidating outburst of barking and scratching against the fence. A burglar setting one hand on that fence would be utterly convinced that he was going to die swiftly on entering the yard, and not a scrap of his carcass would be left by morning.

But in person, she was a pretty sweet, playful, intelligent dog, with whom my own dogs played enthusiastically nearly every morning. It took some time for her to really get the hang of it, but I think my dogs really helped her mellow out. I suspect that if she'd been able to see past the fence she'd have been much calmer with passing strangers, though.
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Old September 18, 2006, 09:28 AM   #21
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I guess what I'm about to suggest may seem a little biased/irresponsible/unfeasible, depending on your situation... You see, I am, (a), a dog lover, (b), well trained myself and quite patient with animals, and (c), a BIG guy. But, this type of reaction can actually be trained OUT of the dog, and I might attempt to do so, since you live in the dog's community...

Dog's aren't like humans. Humans learn who the "boss" is, and they grow to accept that. Dogs are pack animals. Dogs don't ever get "comfortable," socially. They are ALWAYS attempting to define and redefine their position in the "pack," that is, on the social heirarchy. Dogs are constantly vieing with each other and with humans to establish dominance.

If you've ever seen a REAL dog attack, dogs seldom bark or growl when they strike. In fact, they can be quite silent when they bite with intent to kill. So, when a dog barks, growls, and charges you, often times they're not really trying to kill you, so to speak, they're just trying to establish their dominance. (Or scare you away... same thing.)

Now, when a dog does this habitually, it's because he/she thinks that he/she deserves to be the "boss" of your relationship. The dog MUST be taught otherwise, or he/she will continue this behavior. So, if you can do it at all, here's what to do...

First, armor yourself. When dealing with a disobedient dog, I usually prefer my leather bomber-jacket, heavy blue-jeans, and leather boots. But, assess the bite power of the dog. Is this a pit bull or a rottie, capable of biting your arm in half? If so, then you'll need more armor than that... Perhaps several sweaters and a big leather coat. Is it a toy-poodle? If so, then a flannel shirt might suffice...

Second, approach the dog. Be BRAZEN and OVERPOWERING. Strut as tough as you can, right up to it. If it backs down, great! It's just a noisy dog, and it doesn't really want to fight. You can ignore it from now on. If it doesn't back down; if it charges you; JAM your arm HARD into its mouth. (This is important, because a bite with the front of the teeth can pinch you through the leather sleeve...)

As the dog bites, kneel down and BEAR-HUG it around the head with your other arm. This will secure the bitten arm in place, and keep the dog from taking another bite. QUICKLY roll over on your stomach, on top of the dog. The dog should roll on its back, with its mouth jammed open. (This is why it's good to be of large stature, and armored. Dogs typically HATE to be on their backs; it's a sign of submission. The dog will very likely go NUTS when you roll it over...) Watch for claws!!!

You have now tackled this thing into a position of submission. You are holding this dog (in all likelihood, laying on top of this dog) on its back. Now, to prove your "dominance," you have to "inform" the dog that this exchange wasn't purely "luck" or an "accident." Take a deep breath, and ROAR at this dog as loudly as you can! I know, it sounds stupid. But, it WORKS! The dog may, after a brief struggle, begin to yelp and cry. Let it get good and afraid of you for a few seconds, and then jump up and let it go. The dog should run off, and not only will it probably not bother you again, but it will likely be friendly to you from now on! You have proven your dominance, you have proven your strength, and from now on, the dog will look to you for "protection" from other threats.
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Old September 18, 2006, 09:57 AM   #22
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Samurai's tactic will work. But if you are afraid of dogs, specifically this dog, it will know, and then it won't work.

I have done this with my Irish terriers. My first Irish just did NOT get it for awhile. She spent any number of minutes on her back over the years. My "roar" was to look her in the eye ONCE SHE WAS DOWN AND CONTROLLED and yell "YOU ARE NOT ALPHA!!!! I AM ALPHA!!!!!"

I did that so that if she started acting up later, that was a phrase I could use and head off rising unacceptable behavior. It worked.

However, if you don't know what you're doing with dogs, I'm not sure I'd recommend it. I've had dogs all my life and I've had terriers a long time, so I'm utterly comfortable with it.

(I have to tell a story as an aside: my oldest son was extraordinarly irritated by my middle son's outrageous behaviors in middle childhood. MS would just never know when to quit. OS was 12 years older than MS. So OS started doing those 'alpha sessions' on HIM. Guess what. It worked....! That is until MS grew up to be bigger than OS )

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Old September 18, 2006, 10:21 AM   #23
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Thanks for the great information you two!

I really enjoyed reading it.

I would like to add that this type of training is seldom needed if the dog is taught from an early age who's the chief. Usually at around 2 years of age good 'ole Sparky will take another run at the Alpha position so be on your toes for it. If you have kids have them there with you to establish that they are at a higher rank in the pack than he is.

I have been a proud owner of Rottweilers for over a decade now, and while they do have a bad reputation they are some of the most intelligent dogs I have owned. Alot of times what's seen as "Bad" behavior is only what comes naturally for them, and it is ultimately YOUR fault if they are not kept in check.

When establishing dominance to a young dog grab ahold of his upper lip and really sqeeze it at the same time with a firm voice yell "NO"! Momma dogs will do this to unruly Pups when they act up, or if they start to 'play' too rough.A young dog will use play as a way to up his status in the pack sometimes too. He'll be sneaky about it and start off playing nice, but he'll escalate the play until he establishes dominance. Don't let him.

I know that some dog owners don't like to physically discipline their dogs, but in the dog world that's how it's done. They don't understand/respect scolding much and like little kids they are always testing their limits. If you allow them to get away with too much, they end up being adult dogs like the one Samurai was talking about. Start training early, especially with the bigger/stronger breeds. Establish your dominance at feed time and NEVER accept a dog that growls or snaps at you when you reach for his/her dinner bowl. That is a clear sign of a problem dog in the making. You are Alpha, you get to eat first and everything that he/she owns is always YOURS for the taking. Keep that in mind and you'll be OK.
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Old September 18, 2006, 12:09 PM   #24
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That may be great advise in the event you are attacked with no other means of defense - the whole shove your arm in it's mouth as hard as you can stuff. Of course, this is assuming you’re comfortable with being bitten, and wrestling around on the ground with someone else’s animal. I’m not.

Better yet – and if you don’t want to go through the trouble of being bitten and wrestling dogs – carry pepper spray, and if necessary employ other weapons in extreme cases. Not everyone has the physical prowess to take on aggressive animals – and they should not be expected to do so out of kindness towards the dog.

One should not perceive this method as a good idea unless they’re trained and extremely certain in their physical abilities. Also it’s applies and oranges when using this technique on your own dog, versus an unknown dog.

We should not tolerate dogs that attack humans. Period.

It's all-good and well when we're talking about a 250lb guy man-handling dogs at will. But wait until it's a kid skateboarding by that irritates the dog. Well, now it’s too late.

The OP should not have to take on the training of another individual’s dog. It's not his responsibility. That's the point.

By no means am I suggesting all dogs all the time should be pepper sprayed and shot. So please don’t take my comments out of context. Dog owners (myself included) should realize that the joy owning dogs should not infringe on the happiness of others who expect not to be harassed and attacked by my dogs.

The old TFL dog thread; cousin to the 9mm vs 45acp thread.
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Old September 18, 2006, 12:12 PM   #25
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Advice from a Kali viewpoint

Here, if you touch the dog at all you are likely to get 5-25 years in jail. Hurting an animal is worse than a person under CA law and in these people's screwed up minds that dog has more rights than you do. Seriously it has happened several times, and I am sure the local DA (very anti gun liberal) would love to locl up a gun nut. He would probably parade my "arsenal" outside too, just for fun. Oh, an you would get sued for millions and lose.

I would just wait till the dog actually bites me, then I know I am justified, and I can sue!

If you live in a state that does not double as a loonie bin, pepper spray is OK, but it does not work 100% of the time and may just make the dog VERY aggressive. Carry a real pistol as back up.

I wonder if a Taser would work an a dog?
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