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Old October 9, 2000, 02:34 PM   #1
taco
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For past 12 years or more my standard handload for 9mm has been 5.2gr of Win231 with 115gr JHP from Remington or Winchester. This load was recommended to me by a trusted friend who had reloaded 9mm for many years and I saw from one of his loading manual (Lyman?) that it was not above max load.

This round has always been totally reliable and very accurate in my various 9mm pistols. Velocity of this round seems to be about "average" compared to factory rounds. It moves at 1,260 fps from my 92FS and 1,220 fps from my P7M8.

Today I was looking at Winchester loading manual and noticed that the maximum charge for Win231 with 115gr bullet is 4.9gr. Anybody else here load similar charge? Is 5.2 really above max or has the manuals gotten whimpy?
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Old October 9, 2000, 03:19 PM   #2
TexasRusty
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I use Win231 for my 9mm loads.I use 4.5 grains behind a 115gr bullet. I have never had a problem with this load.

I did do some experimenting with higher loads and started to flaten primers at about 4.7-4.8 grains so I stopped there.

5.2 is well above the max in most of the manuals that I have looked at. My old Hornady manual has a max listed at 5.5 grains but I never put much store in that manual since all of the loads seem very high.

Rusty
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Old October 9, 2000, 04:57 PM   #3
taco
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TexasRusty:

Thanks for your reply.

Which brand of bullet are you using?
What is your OAL?
Have you ran your loads on chrono to see velocity?


Chae
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Old October 10, 2000, 07:27 AM   #4
WESHOOT2
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Screw SAAMI.

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"

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Old October 10, 2000, 09:30 AM   #5
TexasRusty
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I usually load either IMI, Winchester or Montana Gold Bullets. I am not to particular sometimes FMJ and sometimes JHP usually what I can find a deal on at any given time. But I always laod 115 gr. bullets.

OAL depends on the bullet I am using at any given time. Right now I am loading Montana Gold 115gr. JHP and my OAL is 1.105 (I think). This is a little long but my Sigs will feed it reliably all day and it is very accrurate.

To determine OAL I use a Dillon Case gauge and Uually seat to max length in the gauge. I seat a little shorter with Montana Gold bullet because the shoulder is not rounded like the Winchesters.

I haven't run any of my loads through a Chrono recently but I did several years ago. At that time using 4.5 grains of Win 231 and a Winchester 115gr. FMJ I was getting around 1050 fps if I remember correctly. This was out of a Beretta 92FS, it may be a little different out of my wifes P239 or my P228 since I haven't checked them.

I use this load for target shooting for my wife and myself. For carry we use Speer 124gr. Gold Dot.
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Old October 10, 2000, 10:00 AM   #6
LIProgun
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Using 5.0 grains of 231 with a Winchester 115 FMJ-RN gives only around 1000 fps according to my chronograph testing. As far as I can tell this is a light load, though the Winchester data says otherwise.

I've been using 5.1 grains Win 231 with a 124 grain jacketed flat-point bullet for years with no problems or signs of overpressure. So I can't imagine that using the same load with 115 grain bullets would be a problem.
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Old October 10, 2000, 10:58 AM   #7
Mikul
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I used Winchester's recommendation which maxes out at 4.8. Considering that I was using their primers, powder, and bullets, it should have been reliable.

However, I did try loading up to 5.0 without any trouble. 5.2 is probably okay given the Lyman's recommendation. I have Unique loads that push much harder than the 5.0 of 231 that I made up.

FWIW, my preference is for 124gr bullets with 231.
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Old October 10, 2000, 11:53 AM   #8
taco
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Last night I loaded some 9mmm exactly as stated on the Winchester manual. I used Winchester once shot brass, Winchester primer, Whichester 115gr FMJ with cartridge OAL as stated on the manual and 4.9gr or 5.2gr of Winchester 231. I ran 20 rounds each of this load over my chrono this morning on the way to work and using my Beretta 92FS I got following readings from my chrono:

4.9gr - 1,027 fps (average of 20 rounds)
5.2gr - 1,253 fps (average of 20 rounds)

I also shot 20 rounds of Winchester "White Box" 9mm FMJ load and this particular box had average velocity of 1,113 fps.

Both reloads were very consistant but 4.9gr load had very little recoil while 5.2gr load did have a little more recoil (similar to factory load or just a little more). Compared to Cor-Bon's 115gr JHP loads I have shot in past the recoil from 5.2gr load was less.

I guess Winchester manual is way too conservative (wimpy). Even their factory load seems slow compared to most European loads.

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Old October 12, 2000, 10:38 PM   #9
alan
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Newer manuals seem to be written by the legal dept. The older ones likely were written by balistics techs, or shooters. As P.O. Ackley supposedly observed, the quote might not be quite exact, "while change indicates movement, do not assume that it is movement in the direction of improvement".

I've used, with 125 grain lead bullets, sized .357, 5.2 grains of Unique and 5.9 grains Accurate 5, winchester primers and the worst mess of mixed brass to be seen, so far as I can tell, without problems. OAL about 1.165". Never reloaded jacketed in 9mm.

[This message has been edited by alan (edited October 12, 2000).]
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Old October 14, 2000, 09:08 PM   #10
HiCap
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Taco, 231 is my favorite powder and I use it for all my 9mm and 45 loads. With Winchester and Remington 115gr bullets I use 5.7gr 231 as my standard load. This gives 1225 to 1250 fps from a 4" Glock 19 and is an accurate load.
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