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Old September 24, 2006, 11:28 AM   #76
JR47
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Baloney. Most russian made mak ammo is much hotter than domestic stuff. There are plenty of people using it and I have yet to HEAR a story of a mak failing. Probably has happened, but its of such a small occurrence as to be a statistical zero. The hi-point on the other hand has both its proponents and its detractors. There are enough people who have had problems with it to justify skepticism.
From Shotgun News, Vol. 60, issue 22.

"In 1993, a modernized Makarov pistol was introduced, chambered for the 57-N-181M 9x18 round, which is a high-velocity, high-penetration version of the original. Several new submachineguns have been chambered for this new round. In terms of wound ballistics, this new cartridge is equivalent to the 9x19 Parabellum round. Externally identical to the original 9x18 Makarov, it can be distinguished by its conically shaped projectile, which has been designed to penetrate soft body armor and mild steel plate. IT CANNOT BE SAFELY FIRED IN OLDER MAKAROV PISTOLS."

The vast majority of 9x18 ammunition in the USA comes from Europe, and is loaded to less than 1000 fps in the original loadings (Shotgun News Vol.60, Issue 22) Your comment about "domestic stuff", even if true, is useless.

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How so. Are you telling me that you are going to get as much for a used hi-point as you are for a used 1911 or mak? I don't think so. How many people are out there knocking down doors for a used hi-point. Probably next to none since they are so cheap to start with. Even percentage wise you will see a higher return on buying a quality pistol. Thats just the way the market works.
Percentage wise, you will probably get more from the High Point than another, non-collectible, weapon. After all, you only paid $125.00 or so. Selling it for $75.00 is a lot better return than selling a $600 pistol for $400. I don't know how many people are out there looking for a used High Point, but, neither do you. Try not to interject wild speculation into statements that purport to be true.

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Based on what, because you say so? I'll grant you that its not a widely carried round here, but there are plenty of ballistics gel tests, that show the round to be perfectly adequate for self defense. Its going to make a bigger hole than both a .380 and a 9x19 and is a good penetrator. It won't blow an attacker across a room but neither will any common pistol caliber.
Ok ,based on WHAT ballistic gel tests? Because you say so?

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Alright. Here you go. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm
Most people here would consider .38 special +P JHP to be a perfectly adequate defensive round. Well it was out penetrated by the 9mak, and it makes a bigger hole. All this with regular ammo. The hotter stuff gets better.
I was actually looking for some results from testing that the Soviets did, before changing over to the 9x19. The boxotruth is an admittedly unscientific test. They make no claims as to equivalency with accepted standards. They also quote the following:

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2. The only rounds that reached the necessary penetration were the .32 ACP, the .380 ACP, the Mak with Ball and the .38 Special. Quite honestly, they did better than I would have guessed.
So, according to you, then the .32 ACP and .380 ACP and the 9x18 would all be the same? After all, they passed the same test.

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As for my opinion that the hi-point is nothing more than a range/truck gun, well yes that is my opinion.
Mine, too. Let's see, that's a change from your previous line of thought. We were talking about people buying them to practice, and learn, on. The fact that they COULD be used to defend hearth and home seems to be your blind-spot. You can also use a $500 repro single-action black powder weapon to defend yourself adequately. Would I want to, no, but if it's all you have, it will work.

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This here is the beef that most people have. I don't buy cheap equipment for ANYTHNG I do be it cars, guns, surfboards, whatever. If you don't get something better than you, you will never get better. If you only buy things for your "conditions" then when the SHTF and things get worse you might be out of luck.
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Any high school student working a summer job for minimum wage can afford a solid entry level pistol such as a springfield GI. If 200-300 is too expensive for you then you shouldn't be spending money in the first place.
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What I was talking about was that by purchasing an inferior pistol, you limit yourself to only improving as well as the pistol can handle. The amount of improvement one can make on a $100 hi point is alot less than one can make on a $400 1911. Furthermore, once you get better, it will be far easier to sell a better pistol for an upgrade. No one is going to buy a used hi-point.
As I was saying, you'd hardly think that you would want a High Point for a truck/plinker/trainer with those statements, sir. However, as you've finally come down into the real world, let's just let it be. The High Point isn't a Sig, HK, or Colt. It's an entry-level weapon. There's nothing wrong with that. We NEED such weapons to allow the less well-off to get into the sport. Once there, they will be exposed to better weaponry, and will, as their skill levels, and comfort levels increase, move on to such weapons. You know, I could swear that I said this some time ago.
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Old September 24, 2006, 04:46 PM   #77
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From Shotgun News, Vol. 60, issue 22.

"In 1993, a modernized Makarov pistol was introduced, chambered for the 57-N-181M 9x18 round, which is a high-velocity, high-penetration version of the original. Several new submachineguns have been chambered for this new round. In terms of wound ballistics, this new cartridge is equivalent to the 9x19 Parabellum round. Externally identical to the original 9x18 Makarov, it can be distinguished by its conically shaped projectile, which has been designed to penetrate soft body armor and mild steel plate. IT CANNOT BE SAFELY FIRED IN OLDER MAKAROV PISTOLS."

Great. But thats not the stuff I'm talking about.


Quote:
The vast majority of 9x18 ammunition in the USA comes from Europe, and is loaded to less than 1000 fps in the original loadings (Shotgun News Vol.60, Issue 22) Your comment about "domestic stuff", even if true, is useless.

Well, fiocchi is loaded to 1050 fps and some of the stuff from brown bear and silver bear are even hotter with heavier bullets so your theory is out the window.



Quote:
Percentage wise, you will probably get more from the High Point than another, non-collectible, weapon. After all, you only paid $125.00 or so. Selling it for $75.00 is a lot better return than selling a $600 pistol for $400. I don't know how many people are out there looking for a used High Point, but, neither do you. Try not to interject wild speculation into statements that purport to be true.

Its not wild speculation. Do a search here and see how many used hi-points you see for sale. As for a use $75 hi-point, maybe just maybe if its in pristine condition, and even then its a stretch. A quality pistol is a far better investment and will hold its resale value. Thats not speculation its simply what the market dictates.



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Ok ,based on WHAT ballistic gel tests? Because you say so?
Ones like these. http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/gel9x18.htm
Uh oh... most all these rounds are above 1000fps.




Quote:
So, according to you, then the .32 ACP and .380 ACP and the 9x18 would all be the same? After all, they passed the same test.
No, not the same, but all passing the bar for self defense purposes.



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Mine, too. Let's see, that's a change from your previous line of thought. We were talking about people buying them to practice, and learn, on. The fact that they COULD be used to defend hearth and home seems to be your blind-spot. You can also use a $500 repro single-action black powder weapon to defend yourself adequately. Would I want to, no, but if it's all you have, it will work.
My original assertion still stands. If you buy a pinto to learn how to race, then you're only going to be as good as the car. Same applies to guns. If you use a hi-point to hone your skills then you are goint to improve only as much as the hi-point allows.



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As I was saying, you'd hardly think that you would want a High Point for a truck/plinker/trainer with those statements, sir. However, as you've finally come down into the real world, let's just let it be. The High Point isn't a Sig, HK, or Colt. It's an entry-level weapon. There's nothing wrong with that. We NEED such weapons to allow the less well-off to get into the sport. Once there, they will be exposed to better weaponry, and will, as their skill levels, and comfort levels increase, move on to such weapons. You know, I could swear that I said this some time ago.
I don't want a hi-point for a truck gun. Thats my personal preference. I don't begrudge others that do. What does bother me is when people make statements that give less knowledgable gunowners the idea that a hi-point is just as adequate as other firearms that are 300-500 more. Its not.
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Old September 24, 2006, 04:49 PM   #78
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No reason in the slightest to belittle someone's choice to purchase a Hi-Point for a first gun. That only makes yourself a smaller person.
I'm not belittling the choice just the line of thinking that the Hi Point is on par with other quality handguns. If the hi Point is truly all the gun you can afford and the alternative is no gun of course it is better than nothing.
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Old September 24, 2006, 08:01 PM   #79
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I don't want a hi-point for a truck gun. Thats my personal preference. I don't begrudge others that do. What does bother me is when people make statements that give less knowledgable gunowners the idea that a hi-point is just as adequate as other firearms that are 300-500 more. Its not.
As you are talking directly to me, I would like to see where I said that, please. The quoted statements from you seem to give one a different opinion of your likes.

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Well, fiocchi is loaded to 1050 fps and some of the stuff from brown bear and silver bear are even hotter with heavier bullets so your theory is out the window.
Barrel length? Many companies use a 4" or even 5" barrel. That would give a false velocity in the shorter barrel Makarov. So, without that, your figures are useless. I have the figures from the two Bears, they are rated at 1000 fps on their web site. Barnaul is actually the fastest, at 1066 fps, with a 94 gr. bullet. Where ARE these mythical loads, if they aren't the new 57-N-181M.

Quote:
Ones like these. http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/gel9x18.htm Uh oh... most all these rounds are above 1000fps.
Why, yes they were, and only two of them were foreign. I can give these results the same credibility as the article in Shotgun News, which quoted the velocities of current 9x18 service ammo, not the new round, at 950-1000 fps.
It may also be of note that Cor-Bon doesn't catalog the 9x18 in the 2006 listings. The Barnaul ammo tested was heavier than Barnaul lists, and faster. The Wolf ammo is also heavier than the listed loads. I would like to point out that the Hornady loading was 50 fps slower than listed, too. It would appear that barrel lengths in rated speeds aren't all the same. Other than the FMJ load, all of the tested loads failed the 12" minimum depth that the quoted boxotruth used as a criterion for "adequate penetration" in ballistic gel. So, what would you have the people believe? Your "facts" are at odds with each other.

Quote:
Baloney. Most russian made mak ammo is much hotter than domestic stuff. There are plenty of people using it and I have yet to HEAR a story of a mak failing. Probably has happened, but its of such a small occurrence as to be a statistical zero. The hi-point on the other hand has both its proponents and its detractors. There are enough people who have had problems with it to justify skepticism.
Sorry, but that IS your quote. If you don't know enough to make statements safely, then you shouldn't be making them.

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Great. But thats not the stuff I'm talking about.
That would help a new person to Makarovs how? I'm sure that he'd feel a LOT better after his blow-back blew up in his hands. You know what they say about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Quote:
Its not wild speculation. Do a search here and see how many used hi-points you see for sale. As for a use $75 hi-point, maybe just maybe if its in pristine condition, and even then its a stretch. A quality pistol is a far better investment and will hold its resale value. Thats not speculation its simply what the market dictates.
Once again, bold statements, without any facts to back it up. That's usually called opinion, sir.

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My original assertion still stands. If you buy a pinto to learn how to race, then you're only going to be as good as the car. Same applies to guns. If you use a hi-point to hone your skills then you are goint to improve only as much as the hi-point allows.
Apples to oranges. If you buy a Pinto to race, it will be in the appropriate class. In that class, you may well stand a good chance of winning as your skill levels increase. No, you won't step from a Pinto Cafe Racer directly into a Trans-Am car with much hope of winning, but you're not expected to. In the Pinto, though, you will learn the basics of steering, braking, and turning that apply just as much to the Trans-Am car. On the other hand, if you save your money to buy a Trans-Am car, and then go racing, you'll be hard-pressed to gain the necessary skills. The class is much too fast and furious for a beginner.

With a High Point, you can learn the basics of safety, handling, sight alignment, trigger control, and cleaning and lubricating the weapon. You can do it just as well with the High Point as you can with a Korth, or a top-of-the-line Sig or HK. I haven't advocated buying a High Point over any other weapon. I simply point out that it works for the basics as WELL as the others. You might not like it, but you haven't disproven it, either.
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Old September 25, 2006, 09:02 PM   #80
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I bght a hundred rounds of Remington Jacked Hollow Point 9mm today. Will get to the range in the next day or two on how well they fed in my Hi Point C9.
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Old September 28, 2006, 02:16 AM   #81
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To answer the original question. . .

I bought one. I was tight on jack, and some gun is better than no gun, you know?

I put a lot of rounds through it. A LOT. reliably. It started pooping on me...ftf, ftf, ftf. Real annoying. It wouldn't shoot to point of aim.

So, it turns out they make a taller sight for it. I got me one of them, it started shooting where I pointed it. After some research, I discovered blowback pistols (the kind Hi-point c9's are) are prone to weakening the firing spring and pin.

Hi-Point was awesome about shipping whatever I needed next-day air. And now, it's a pretty good gun. it's heavy, ugly, feels like the trigger contains about a pound of sand behind its sixty pund pull, and that son of a gun sprays lead every single time. It is world's greatest truck gun.

I shot my CCW exam with it.

For the money, you can't beat it. I hated this thing, and now I kind of like it. CajunBass is pretty good with 'em...you might chat with him.

Liam
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Old October 1, 2006, 05:22 PM   #82
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I promised to report back when I got to the range shooting my compact C9 9mm from Hi Point. I shot FMJ and Federal hollow points with ZERO problems of any kind. Gun is pretty darn accurate too. Both 8 and 10 rd mags.

I was shooting from 7 yd, 15 yd and 25 yd. Deadly with no hiccups.

Last edited by hdawson228; October 2, 2006 at 02:45 PM.
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Old October 18, 2006, 10:42 PM   #83
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Update: Two or three more trips to the range, and still not the slightest problem with my HP C9 compact 9mm. Now total of probably 300 rds +. Accurate and reliable at 7, 15 and 25 yrds. Almost as much fun as my SA 1911. I must say, I am not the worlds best marksman with any gun.
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Old October 18, 2006, 11:51 PM   #84
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I bought a Hi-Point .45ACP about six months back and it had a few problems at first but after around 100 rounds it stopped jamming and works great but it does not seem to like Wolf ammo for some reason.


And I also got a Hi-Point 9mm carbine that also had a few problems but cleared up after 100-150 rounds.


And here is a great forum for Hi-Point(and any other gun)owners.I think it is CajunBass's forum I know he is a moderator.


http://hipoint.7.forumer.com/




Michael.
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Old November 10, 2006, 12:42 AM   #85
Fromthelonestarstate
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Hi Point Firearms

I don't own a gun (never have) but I've been planning to purchase one for sometime for home/family/personal defense. I'm in the process of putting things together for any emergency situations that might come up. Katrina taught me some very valuable lessons. After reading all of your threads and a review from shootingtimes I've decided that I'm going to by a Hi-Point.

Why???

1. Economics (all I can afford at the moment).

2. People who know more about guns than I do seem to be impressed with their accuracy and quality.

Anyway I let y'all know how it works out.
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Old November 10, 2006, 04:38 AM   #86
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the only debate thats contested more than the hi-point vs. everybody else is 9mm vs. 45. How many high dollar guns have a no questions asked, lifetime guarantee? Part of the rason you dont see used hi points is those that own them KEEP THEM. My local dealer cant get hi points in fast enough. he orders them 50 at a time and usually has them all sold before they hit the shop. Ive owned over 50 different handguns of various makes and the only ones i still own are a glock 17, hi point 9mm, hi point 45, colt MKIII trooper .357, raven .25 and cz70 .32. the hi points are shot the most. For everyone who says a hi point is a bad choice, go borrow one and shoot it. No its not a tack driver, no its not very good looking, no its not good for CCW. It does what its intended to do exceedingly well. Put lead downrange for minimum investment and with maximum reliability.

SW
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Old November 10, 2006, 06:01 AM   #87
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hi point

i got one in 45 acp.love it shoots real good out of the box.can't say the that it a good looking gun,and it is a heavy gun to carry but it put my bullet where point,and all that matter to me to able to hit what aiming at.and price didn't breck the bank.
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Old November 10, 2006, 04:03 PM   #88
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The Hi-Point C9 was in Combat Handguns (Nov. 2006 issue).

http://www.defensereview.com/modules...rticle&sid=928

(On the bottom where it says "Gun Tests".)
http://www.harrisoutdoorgroup.com/CHbacknov06.html

From the article:
"Hi-Point C9 9mm: A no-nonsense, no-frills sureshot you can bet your life on!"
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Old November 10, 2006, 04:27 PM   #89
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After reading all of your threads and a review from shootingtimes I've decided that I'm going to by a Hi-Point.
Im sure it will serve you well.Id recommend a 9mm as the best overall choice.Compensated or not is up to you.
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Old November 11, 2006, 07:11 PM   #90
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C9

I have a C9 compact 9mm myself, got it about 6 wks ago. I was looking for something to carry that wasn't too big, minimum cal 9mm. I really liked the G26 but the price was too high. Perhaps after tax time this one will be the #2 pistol but for now it's the only one I have. Previously only owned shotguns although I've fired many types of weapons over the years. The C9 works great, I like the function and controls, and the fact that it has a manual safety. I don't like the way it comes apart (you have to punch out a roll pin) but it does come apart. They say you don't have to take it apart to clean it every time you fire it, but I was not raised that way. It's a little bulky for carry, my wife can tell when I have it on me but noone else has noticed. She says it's dangerous to carry a gun around all the time, I said there wouldn't be any use to carry it if it wasn't. After reading all these forums for a while, I probably want something a little biger, something a little smaller, a couple of rifles or carbines, a 22 to teach the kids with, a small 357 for the wife, yes It's true, I have the bug....
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Old November 11, 2006, 08:36 PM   #91
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I don't like the way it comes apart (you have to punch out a roll pin) but it does come apart.
I know it seems weird,but 2000 rounds between "punchings" is enough.
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Old November 12, 2006, 01:01 PM   #92
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Futre Owner of a C9

The high point C9 is on my buy list.
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Old November 21, 2006, 02:29 AM   #93
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I own a HP .40 and have put several thousands rounds thru it with minimal problems. Yes it is heavy but for my first .40 I wasn't willing to sink a large sum of money into a caliber or gun that I may not enjoy shooting. I would buy other HP's in the future. I also have Walther and S&W but if I have to depend on a gun for my home defense it will be my Bond 45/4-10 loaded with 000 buckshot.
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Old November 21, 2006, 08:32 PM   #94
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high-point

the only problem I ever had with my 995 is a low powder charge which did not work the action my fault my dad has the 45 no problems they have the greatest warranty great little shooters if you dont have one get one. no its not the most expensive or the most attractive but man what a fun firearm
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Old November 25, 2006, 05:22 PM   #95
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I took my wife to the range and had her shoot a bunch of rental semis to see which she was most comfortable with. She liked the Walther .22, but no way I was going to advocate her getting a gun that, when shot, might not even dent a windshield. So I bought her the C9. She complained it was too heavy for her, so I 'inherited' it, and I like it just fine. It's not my 'go to' gun, but then, I'm a revolver kinda guy. Put 200 rounds through it, no problems so far. It was fun as hell at the range!
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Old November 25, 2006, 08:34 PM   #96
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I own a C9 and a JCP 40S&W love them both. Over 600rds through each. I have only had 5 FTE. Zero FTF. I can hit the target everytime with both of them. Yes they are heavy, hard to take down, but well worth the money.
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Old November 25, 2006, 10:12 PM   #97
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High Point

All I know about this brand is a guy had one of these pistols in 9MM in my CWP class.It was the unending cause of delay and nervousness on the firing line due to repeated FTE,FTF almost to the point of him being asked to reschedule his testing with another weapon. I would suggest pony up a couple hundred bucks and buy something else.
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Old November 25, 2006, 11:11 PM   #98
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Sounds like the guy should have gone to the range to work the bugs out of it before actually trying to qualify. It seems every HiPoint has bugs, but once they are worked out, they do ok.
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Old November 27, 2006, 05:00 PM   #99
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the hi point is a heavy gun for its size ..so ccw may be an issue..my buddy has one..i shot maybe 1-2 mags and he finished the rest out of a box of 50rnd..thats all thats been shot through it.. now with that said no prbs came up at the range. it shot as well as any other gun..you pull the trigger , blam and a hole appears in the target..for me i feel my 250lb butt is worth more than $150 ..but thats me..one thing that turned me off is when he bought it the dealer said that the hi points dont like cheap ammo..that would be a reason right there for me not to buy it..you save on the gun but you have to shoot exp ammo..nope sorry..my xd eats $8 wolf and $9 pmc all day long..the hi point just had a write up in a recent issue of "combat handguns" and long story short it got a very very good review, but then again have you ever seen a write up in any magazine that said the firearm (whatever it may be) sucked? no dont think so..so anyway its your money if thats what you want go for it..and on a side note any/all guns no matter price, name on the slide etc can/will jam ..thats my two cents
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Old November 27, 2006, 11:02 PM   #100
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The only Hi-Point I ever owned was the .45. It was a pure jam-o-matic POS. Got rid of it real quick and got a 1911A1.
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