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Old September 21, 2006, 11:55 AM   #51
JR47
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Then again, the people who don't have Hi-Points seem to freely condemn them. Perhaps a little restraint would enable both sides to relax?

As for the comments about "does the military or police use them". False logic. The military and police haven't used any of the latest crop of S&W revolvers, either. Does that make them inferior?

As for the "what is your life worth" comment, I'm guessing that following that to it's logical end would have all of us carrying rifles or shotguns? Both of them are MUCH more reliable in halting assaults. Surely, none of us would have a .22lr anything, as "our life is worth more", and you wouldn't want to have a .22lr where you may be forced to grab it, insted of a more "valuable" and capable weapon.

The Browning High Power is also notorious for not feeding hollow-points, is that because it's cheap? Same with the Walther PPk.

I'll be quite honest. I WON'T be carrying my High Point for CCW. My choice. It's for plinking. However, should I only have it handy, I won't feel like I'm committing suicide because of that.

People getting into shooting are often monetarily challenged. There is also the FACT that today's society regards most items as use and lose. The High Point fits quite well into that niche. It does have a life-time warranty, and will be replaced by the company. The fact that it won't last 100,000 rounds bothers today's consumer much less than our generations. Should they enjoy the experience, which comes with no formed opinions by them, then you'll see them delving deeper into the firearms market, and more expensive, more durable, weapons.

It's a win-win situation for gun ownership, until the "haters" arrive.
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Old September 21, 2006, 12:55 PM   #52
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JR47. Thanks for your insightful contribution. Like the purchasing of designer fashions, the more dollars spent on a gun (or automobile) is often in fact self ego stroking.
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Old September 21, 2006, 01:26 PM   #53
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I've shot the things and actually have plans to acquire (!) one.

Zamak is, among other things, very resistant to corrosion. Think "tackle box gun". The inside of a tackle box while one is tramping through the marsh just doesn't say "Custom engraved BHP" to me.
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Old September 21, 2006, 03:48 PM   #54
kenneth owens
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these things rock!!!I can not wait till they come out with a 45 carbine I have lots of buddies who own high-points not a complaint yet.
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Old September 21, 2006, 04:22 PM   #55
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As for the comments about "does the military or police use them". False logic. The military and police haven't used any of the latest crop of S&W revolvers, either. Does that make them inferior?
Its not false logic. At one time or another, police almost exclusively used S&W revolvers. However the change in demand and duty mandates that autos are used.

The fact remains that the hi-point has never been issued for police or military in any country at any time...ever.

You wont see members of SWAT teams or special forces or anyone else who demands accuracy and 100% reliability in the most adverse conditions using a Hi-point. You will see them using Sigs, HK's and 1911's.


Like I said before theres nothing wrong with the Hi-point as a plinker, toolbox/truck gun. I don't have one because I would simply use the 100 bucks towards a nicer gun or ammo, and the thought of using pot metal in a gun makes me wary.

Just don't go around saying its something its not because it gives newbies the wrong idea.

Bottom line, the hi-point is the liberator of 2006.
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Old September 21, 2006, 07:30 PM   #56
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Bottom line, the hi-point is the liberator of 2006.
Amen.

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It's a win-win situation for gun ownership, until the "haters" arrive.
I don't hate Hi Points....jeez. I just happen to understand that they are crap compared to Ruger,Smith,H&K,Beretta,Taurus,Glock,Colt,Kimber,Springfield,Steyr,Kel-Tec,Sig Sauer, and any other quality self defense handgun out there. I will challenge anyone to a twogun match. My Glock and AR versus any hi point pistol and rifle. If you win you can have my guns........I won't want them anymore LOL.

JR,
Quote:
As for the comments about "does the military or police use them". False logic. The military and police haven't used any of the latest crop of S&W revolvers, either. Does that make them inferior?
We aren't talking about revolvers. If your semi auto was just as good it would surly be used by some agency. The savings in money would be immense.

Quote:
"what is your life worth" comment, I'm guessing that following that to it's logical end would have all of us carrying rifles or shotguns?
Kinda hard to conceal that rifle in a IWB holster you think? If you follow that logic it would lead you to something other than the hi point.

For those fisherman out there I have a comparison for you. You can catch fish all day long with a shakespear combo rod and reel. You can also catch fish all day long with a Shimano chronarch reel with a G-Loomis rod. The difference is the shakespear will brake sooner, it isn't as smooth to reel, its harder to cast, and the combo is heavier and more fatiguing when all day fishing. Sure the shakespear will catch fish until it brakes and then you just grab another rod. In a gunfight if your gun malfs you die.

You get what you pay for. If the gun that gave me the best chance to win in a gun fight cost 2000.00 I would save until I got it. My life is to precious to skimp on the very tool which might save it.
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Old September 21, 2006, 09:54 PM   #57
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Threegun: I don't carry. Most of the places I go don't allow it. However, I do keep one loaded at home. I'm betting my life that it will go bang the first six times I pull the trigger as it has for at least 75 years. It's a .38 S&W Police Special. I can vouch for the last 3 decades.

War story on high dollar guns: Fellow at the range was shooting some pretty good groups with his 1911, but was fiddling with the slide every now and then. Asked him what he was shooting. Turned out to be what was once a Kimber Custom II. The receiver had cracked and been repaired. He had a custom slide put on it after the orginal started spalling and had upgraded the barrel and trigger. Nice gun, very accurate, but the way he was fiddling with the slide, for all the money invested, I wouldn't bet my life on it functioning when I needed it unless I was attacked by stationary black dots.

I can't speak for others, but if I bought a Hi Point, it probably wouldn't be for concealed carry or primary home defense, it would be for plinking. Most of the folks who have them seem to think they go bang when you pull the trigger a majority of the time.
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Old September 22, 2006, 05:34 AM   #58
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GoPack, I agree on the war stories but my point was simply to stress that a life is worth what ever amount it takes to get a premium fighting pistol or rifle. I understand your point that money doesn't equal function however plenty of functional guns are available that give the shooter improvements over the Hi Point that could certainly help them help themselves and which don't cost thousands.
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Old September 22, 2006, 09:24 AM   #59
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We aren't talking about revolvers. If your semi auto was just as good it would surly be used by some agency. The savings in money would be immense.
You mean like the Beretta Cheetah or Storm? You know how it is with these cheap handguns.

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Kinda hard to conceal that rifle in a IWB holster you think? If you follow that logic it would lead you to something other than the hi point.
Sure would be. However, choosing ANY handgun to defend yourself with is a gamble, at best. I don't know of any of the nationally known shooting schools that advocate going into a gunfight armed with a handgun. Sorry, but a handgun isn't going to cut it. Why do you think that the military issues rifles? Think of the money they could save by issuing pistols. It would be immense. And it would be YOUR logic that would lead away from a High Point. The fact that they don't MAKE rifle caliber weapons eases your mind, right?

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You wont see members of SWAT teams or special forces or anyone else who demands accuracy and 100% reliability in the most adverse conditions using a Hi-point. You will see them using Sigs, HK's and 1911's.
Pet peeve here, but the last time that I checked the catalogs, Sig and HK were manufacturers. I can't find a single catalog of the company 1911. I know that Sig makes a 1911, as does S&W, Colt, SA, and about fifty others.

By the way, SWAT, SF, and others are also using the issue Beretta M9, the cheapest pistol that the military tested.

By way of comparison, the Egyptians, and the Israelis, both used the Model 1951 Beretta as a police and military pistol. It won't feed hollowpoints, has lousy sights (circa 1950), a gritty trigger, and costs about $165.00 today, new. It's called the Helwan. I'd rather have a High Point. Yet, the Helwan meets all of the criterion stated.

Face it, there are PLENTY of better pistols out there. I agree 100%. Better, though, is often a matter of perspective. If I'm new to a game, I don't buy Pro-quality equipment to start with. I buy what I can afford. Entry level weapons are the same. These people aren't going to CCW them. They ARE going to use them to target shoot. This exposes them to higher quality firearms, and gives them the incentive to "move on up" as they gain experience, and decide that they actually LIKE to shoot.

Nobody here actually believes that the High Point will fail catastrophically. Nor do they think that it's particulalrly inaccurate. It's heavy, somewhat bulky, and generally not what you would use to defend yourself with. OK, but it COULD be used to defend yourself with, and quite successfully.

You're not going to buy a Cadillac CTS-V to go off-roading in. You're not going to buy a Jeep to enjoy long road-trips at 100 mph, either. The last time that I looked, I no longer had to worry about participating in SWAT raids, or assisting as an operator in clandestine insertions. I have weaponry identical to that which is used by those men and women (in the case of SWAT), I just won't be using it any more, I hope. I have a single High Point pistol. I bought it after all of the "haters" made such a big deal of them. It's passed the 2500 round mark with no problems, it feeds Remington JHP 9mm, and will hold 3" at 25 yards.

It's not pretty, but it works. It's a great entry-level plinker that will suffice for home defense until the newby gets his/her feet under them.
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Old September 22, 2006, 10:33 AM   #60
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Cheap doesn't always have to mean BAD.

I had a 995 Carbine. It was a fun gun other than the fact that the damn stock stung my cheek everytime it was shot. Sold it to one of my workers and changed the stock to a Advanced Technology ones. Now it's a pretty sweet little rifle. The stock swap didn't change the basic rifle however and of course the rough heavy trigger remained, but all in all this little carbine has served it's owners well.

It was definately woth the money spent.

The Materials Hi-Point uses aren't top of the line, but this is the very reason why they can offer their guns for as little as they do. That said, the guns are a very decent balance between price, power, and function. Get's back to my own personal mantra on self protection: Anything is better than Nothing.

Alot of people associate price with quality, and rightly so, but in the case of Hi-point, function needs to be considered as well. The guns were designed to shoot bullets, and Hi-points function to their expectation. No matter what they are made of, they do indeed function well as firearms.

There's a market for reasonable priced firearms. New shooters in need of a gun but not wanting to spend alot will find a great gun in hi-points. People looking for home protection that aren't really into guns but want a gun for home protection will find these handy as well. There are literally dozens of niches the Hi-Points fit, niches that fell under the "Entry Level" or Beginners catagory in the past. They make cool gifts too. Hell I love my friends, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna go out and buy them a bunch of Sig 229's, but I would consider getting alot of them Hi-points, and I would feel secure in knowing I wasn't buying them junk.

On a side note, if Hi-point spent a little more time in the design dept and came out with snazzier looking guns they'd sell 'em like crazy: Case in point, what if their Carbines came from the factory looking like the Advance Tech after market stocks? For under $200? You can bet they'd make millions.

So...My advice is, don't buy a Hi-Point because you wanted a less expensive Glock. You'll be disappointed. Don't expect them to last too long. You'll be pleasently surprised. Don't knock 'em till you try them, they do shoot well for what they are.
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Old September 22, 2006, 10:42 AM   #61
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If I'm new to a game, I don't buy Pro-quality equipment to start with.

This here is the beef that most people have. I don't buy cheap equipment for ANYTHNG I do be it cars, guns, surfboards, whatever. If you don't get something better than you, you will never get better. If you only buy things for your "conditions" then when the SHTF and things get worse you might be out of luck.

There are many quality guns that are cheap. The makarov comes to mind. Price doesn't always get you quality. However there is a bar that some of us won't go below.
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Old September 22, 2006, 11:05 AM   #62
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And here I thought improvement was always possible on any level. I know shooters, musicians, specialists of many trades who've used "substandard" equipment for years and can outshoot, outplay, just plain outperform most of their peers. Saying you can't be proficient with a Hi-Point is just a false statement.
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Old September 22, 2006, 12:37 PM   #63
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It's called the Helwan. I'd rather have a High Point. Yet, the Helwan meets all of the criterion stated.
Bingo! I owned a Helwan for a short while and it was one of the worst guns Ive ever seen or attempted to shoot.Yet it meets the "quality criteria" so many bashers refer too.
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Old September 22, 2006, 12:40 PM   #64
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Saying you can't be proficient with a Hi-Point is just a false statement.
Today 11:42 AM
Amen.

Quote:
This here is the beef that most people have. I don't buy cheap equipment for ANYTHNG I do be it cars, guns, surfboards, whatever. If you don't get something better than you, you will never get better. If you only buy things for your "conditions" then when the SHTF and things get worse you might be out of luck.
Sorry, but I didn't buy a Wilson Combat for my first 1911A1. My first rifle was a single-shot .22lr. I couldn't afford, in the 1950's, anything more expensive on paperboy's salary.

Am I to assume that you drive a Rolls Maybach? Get over yourself. You, and all of us, buy what we can afford. Where your bottom level comes in is still dependent on your disposable income.

Quote:
There are many quality guns that are cheap. The makarov comes to mind. Price doesn't always get you quality. However there is a bar that some of us won't go below.
The Makarov is currently well above $200 for new Bulgarians. The East German version, used, runs close to $300. It fires an expensive cartridge, that is decidedly inferior to the 9x19 in power and development. That is supposedly better, in your mind, than the High Point in a SHTF situation? Oh, please.

I own two Maks, one an IJ-70, the other the East German variant. They have heel-base clips, miniscule sights, and hard to load magazines. They are blow-back weapons, only a tiny bit more powerful than a .380 ACP. In a SHTF situation, I'd suggest that you return to the bar you won't go below, and have a few more drinks.

This mythical SHTF, what is the scenario? I doubt that many of us are going to have to face one. Katrina? That was more a problem of incompetency on the part of the people, and the leadership of NO, than one of firepower. I don't place much faith in the disaster scenarios that leave us at the mercy of Mad Max worlds. If you do, then there is no sense in worrying about your pistol choice. Head for the machineguns, and 40mm grenade launchers.
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Old September 22, 2006, 12:58 PM   #65
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Thanks for all the respnses. I ask in the original post for experience and opinions from those that have personal experience and owners. I was not interested in opinions from those that have no intimate feel for Hi Points. As usual, we got lots of negative opinions from those without personal "experience", but strong anti-opinions. After due diligence, I bought my C9 on Tuesday and the first trip to the range was very impressive, dead on target and Zero hiccups.
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Old September 22, 2006, 02:54 PM   #66
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enjoy
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Old September 22, 2006, 10:05 PM   #67
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Sorry, but I didn't buy a Wilson Combat for my first 1911A1. My first rifle was a single-shot .22lr. I couldn't afford, in the 1950's, anything more expensive on paperboy's salary.
Lots of people here probably started out with a .22. Theres nothing wrong with that. However people aren't advocating that a single shot .22 is ideal for home defense or an all around gun either. As for price, well its no longer 1950. Any high school student working a summer job for minimum wage can afford a solid entry level pistol such as a springfield GI. If 200-300 is too expensive for you then you shouldn't be spending money in the first place.



Quote:
Am I to assume that you drive a Rolls Maybach? Get over yourself. You, and all of us, buy what we can afford. Where your bottom level comes in is still dependent on your disposable income.

If you had read what I had wrote you'll see I had said that money does not always buy you quality. One does not need to get a 2000 wondergun to have accuracy and reliability. However, cheap is almost guaranteed to get you worse. There is always a 200 car in the auto trader, but that doesn't mean that people with modest means will buy it.



Quote:
The Makarov is currently well above $200 for new Bulgarians. The East German version, used, runs close to $300. It fires an expensive cartridge, that is decidedly inferior to the 9x19 in power and development.
Its a little more expensive but a used bulgarian mak is about the cheapest quality gun going right now. As for the 9mm mak being an inferior round, it put plenty of people in the ground behind the iron curtain.


Quote:
That is supposedly better, in your mind, than the High Point in a SHTF situation? Oh, please.

Yup. They are easily concealed, all steel construction, and famed for their reliability and accuracy for a pistol of their size.



Quote:
I own two Maks, one an IJ-70, the other the East German variant. They have heel-base clips, miniscule sights, and hard to load magazines. They are blow-back weapons, only a tiny bit more powerful than a .380 ACP. In a SHTF situation, I'd suggest that you return to the bar you won't go below, and have a few more drinks.
And with all that they would still be a better choice than a hi-point. I find it interesting that you said blow back like it was a bad thing. The hi-point is a blowback pistol as well you know. As for the magazines, I'll trade a heel release (which isn't as nearly hard to operate as you like to make it) for an external slide release lever any day. Sights are a moot point since you can swap them out if you please, but the stockers are nothing to scoff at. I can do a ragged hole at 15 yards, which is more than adequate for most things. As for the round itself, the hot loaded russian stuff is far close to 9mm than .380, which is completely adequate for self defense.

At the end of the day though I'll return to my original point. The mak was in service with both police and military for a very long time. It has a proven history. The hi-point hasn't been touched by either.



Quote:
This mythical SHTF, what is the scenario? I doubt that many of us are going to have to face one. Katrina? That was more a problem of incompetency on the part of the people, and the leadership of NO, than one of firepower. I don't place much faith in the disaster scenarios that leave us at the mercy of Mad Max worlds. If you do, then there is no sense in worrying about your pistol choice. Head for the machineguns, and 40mm grenade launchers.

Luck favors the prepared. I'm just not one of the "it will never happen to me crowd". When I said SHTF I wasn't necessarily referring to a doomsday scenario, but merely a situation where things have gone awry.

What I was talking about was that by purchasing an inferior pistol, you limit yourself to only improving as well as the pistol can handle. The amount of improvement one can make on a $100 hi point is alot less than one can make on a $400 1911. Furthermore, once you get better, it will be far easier to sell a better pistol for an upgrade. No one is going to buy a used hi-point.
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Old September 23, 2006, 01:10 AM   #68
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I had a 9mm compensated, but I sold it.

IMO, it was a good, reliable gun. I fired approx. 600 rounds through it with no problems.

There were a couple of things I didn't like however.

1. Crappy sights

2. Disassembly

Other than that, I think it's a very good gun for the money.
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Old September 23, 2006, 03:35 AM   #69
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Ok, if what I am going to say is irrelevant, I'm sorry...I only read about half of the previous posts before I started going a little cross eyed.
One thing that did catch me eye, is someone stated that no military/policy agency issues or clears them for carry. I'm paraphrasing, I can't remember the exact words. Here in my very own home county, our deputies have to provide their own guns, but they have to be approved and qualify with them. One of our deputies carries a Hi-Point. I'm not trying to refute or support the person who said that, as I know this is but one person in one very small, rural county. I just found it interesting when I heard, then saw it, and thought I would bring it up. For those interested, I live in McNairy County Tennessee. We have a new sheriff now, and he has implemented a lot of changes, so they might be issued guns now, I don't know. But this was about six months ago.

ANYWAY, to my own Hi-Point experiences. Let me preface this with a few head-ups. I've already posted this stuff in a Hi-Point thread before, hell it might even have been in this one. Also, I rarely get a chance to come online anymore, so if you want to respond/ask me about any of this...it might be better to send me a PM...and it might be awhile before you hear back. Lastly, I do NOT own a Hi-Point, however I've had fairly extensive experience with two of them.

The first one (a 9MM), my uncle had. It was old, second (at least) hand, neglected, and obviously abused. It didn't function well at all...but due to its condition this could be expected, so I won't say any more of it.

The second one (a .45), a friend and shooting buddy of mine has. It is his only handgun (bought new). I've seen this gun shot quite a bit, and have shot it several times myself. First off, accuracy wise, the gun is a very good shooter. He can hit really well with it, and I was able to as well. I would say probaby out to about 20 maybe 25 yards. We never shot it any further than that, and this was all informal "plinking" so I don't have specific groups stats for you. We could hit the cans and bottles though, and that's good enough at that distance for me with this type of informal shooting. He has, however, had jamming problems with it. I've never seen him shoot anything but 230 grain ball out of it, so it wasn't a hollowpoint situation. The jamming was not every shot, nor every magazine, but it was enough that I noticed it and it sticks with me. It was enough that I wouldn't want to carry his specific gun. I don't really think that's what these guns were made for though. However, I am not telling anyone to never carry a Hi-Point. I would never presume to tell anyone that I didn't know to carry or not carry anything. My friend is happy with his gun though, and I must admit, for what he (we) have used it for, he's gotten his money's worth out of it and still has it.

Would I personally want a Hi-Point for a daily carry weapon? No, I wouldn't. This speaks as much to its size as to my personal experiences with them though. I wouldn't want to carry my BFR .475 daily either.

Would I want one at all? Possibly. Although I have no NEED for one, I've considered getting one just for one of my frequent "plinking" sessions. It's appealed to me to have a gun that I could take out and shoot all day and then just take home and throw it back in the box, not really worry about getting it to shine like new again. If the gun would be as accurate as my friend's then I don't see why a Hi-Point couldn't fullfill this role. I have many other guns for practically any type of defense situation, and several for more precise paper punching. Could a HP fill all of these roles for someone? That's for you to decide, I have other guns and don't have to make that decision.

As sort of an additional sub-topic, and I don't want to start another wildfire here or offend anyone that has one, but the thing that I DON'T get about Hi-Points is the .380. I fail to see the point. It is not smaller than the 9MM version or one of the 9 versions anyway (I don't believe, but am willing to stand corrected), it obviously isn't as powerful (as many consider the .380 marginal for self defense), the recoil in a gun of that size probably isn't much different, and buying .380s isn't any cheaper or even AS cheap as buying 9mms. I don't know, just don't get that one at all...but I could've missed something.
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Old September 23, 2006, 01:11 PM   #70
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I'll trade a heel release (which isn't as nearly hard to operate as you like to make it) for an external slide release lever any day. Sights are a moot point since you can swap them out if you please, but the stockers are nothing to scoff at. I can do a ragged hole at 15 yards, which is more than adequate for most things. As for the round itself, the hot loaded russian stuff is far close to 9mm than .380, which is completely adequate for self defense.
Why would you trade a heel-release magazine release for an external slide release? As far as that goes, I simply stated that the Makarov had a heel release for the magazine. I didn't mention anything about it's ability to work fast or slow. Come back to us.

Where are you buying the latest hot Makarov ammo? It's not supposed to be used in older Maks, only in the new pistols chambered for it. Shotgun News just did an article on it. So, you'd advocate using ammunition with dangerously high pressures in a Makarov, to equal a High Point, then?

Quote:
Furthermore, once you get better, it will be far easier to sell a better pistol for an upgrade. No one is going to buy a used hi-point.
Man, the next post puts that to lie. Seems they had bought a used and abused High Point. I guess that some days you just can't get a statement out before somebody ruins a perfectly good pontification with facts.

Quote:
The mak was in service with both police and military for a very long time. It has a proven history. The hi-point hasn't been touched by either.
Oops! Another far reaching proclamation that runs afoul of the facts. Yes, though, the Makarov, and the 9x18 cartridge do have a long history. It's a long history as an underpowered pistol and round.

Quote:
Its a little more expensive but a used bulgarian mak is about the cheapest quality gun going right now. As for the 9mm mak being an inferior round, it put plenty of people in the ground behind the iron curtain.
Here, and I thought that the little Star BM was a better deal. Same price, and 9x19, to boot. Cheaper, more effective ammo, as well.

Let's see some facts about the lethality of the 9x18. Using it as a weapon with which to shoot unarmed and unresisting people at arms length isn't going to equate to an effective combat round.

Don't get me wrong. I like the Makarov. It's cute, and a fun little plinker. With expensive ammo, though.

Nothing from the last few posts has brought anything to light that would deter a beginner from purchasing, and using, a High Point. Your OPINION is that they're beneath your level of comfort to buy. Your OPINION is that anyone starting out should buy as expensive a tool, toy, or part for any hobby, as they can afford. Great, but, the operative word here is that it's still your OPINION.

Nothing substantive has been brought to bear that would make a High Point dangerous, or would prevent a person from learning how to shoot using one. Somebody not liking the shape, material, or price of a weapon hardly damns it.
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Old September 23, 2006, 01:11 PM   #71
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Some countries don't allow civilians to have "high-powered" or military calibers. Just a thought.
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Old September 23, 2006, 01:49 PM   #72
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Quote:
Am I to assume that you drive a Rolls Maybach? Get over yourself. You, and all of us, buy what we can afford. Where your bottom level comes in is still dependent on your disposable income.
Afford?????Your life or the life of your family might be at stake????? Can't afford better yet have a computer and the net, several tv's etc.?????? Most can afford better but fall for this hogwash that the Hi Point is on par with better guns.

Maybe I'm just mentally ill. Here I'm always looking to shave milliseconds off my splits while maintaining good hits and the next guy is satisfied with a Hi Point. Oh well I want all the advantages possible in my corner and that ain't possible with a Hi Point.
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Old September 23, 2006, 07:38 PM   #73
Javelin Man
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Join Date: June 15, 2005
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 154
While the newbie is trying to get into shooting and also getting a gun for practice and possible home defense, he would get the advice to save his money and wait several months, maybe a year or more, to get a quality gun. By then his house could be burlarized, his family in jeopardy, etc.

Or he could get into shooting with a Hi-Point, get lots of practice and range time, learn more about quality guns, protect his family and other benefits from having a gun in hand when needed. Eventually, he could purchase that Cadillac of guns that some are saying he should get first.

The second option sounds better to me. btw, I own a Hi-Point .45 and enjoy shooting it with no malfunctions to date. I also have a carbine and enjoy the reliability, but not the stock slapping my cheek.

No reason in the slightest to belittle someone's choice to purchase a Hi-Point for a first gun. That only makes yourself a smaller person.

My first gun was a Ruger Mk II. It was followed by a Lorcin .25, Lorcin .380, and I upgraded after that. The experience I got from those first guns was invaluable and I'm happy I started with them.
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Old September 24, 2006, 12:15 AM   #74
STAGE 2
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Join Date: April 26, 2002
Posts: 2,676
Quote:
Where are you buying the latest hot Makarov ammo? It's not supposed to be used in older Maks, only in the new pistols chambered for it. Shotgun News just did an article on it. So, you'd advocate using ammunition with dangerously high pressures in a Makarov, to equal a High Point, then?
Baloney. Most russian made mak ammo is much hotter than domestic stuff. There are plenty of people using it and I have yet to HEAR a story of a mak failing. Probably has happened, but its of such a small occurrence as to be a statistical zero. The hi-point on the other hand has both its proponents and its detractors. There are enough people who have had problems with it to justify skepticism.


Quote:
Man, the next post puts that to lie. Seems they had bought a used and abused High Point. I guess that some days you just can't get a statement out before somebody ruins a perfectly good pontification with facts.
How so. Are you telling me that you are going to get as much for a used hi-point as you are for a used 1911 or mak? I don't think so. How many people are out there knocking down doors for a used hi-point. Probably next to none since they are so cheap to start with. Even percentage wise you will see a higher return on buying a quality pistol. Thats just the way the market works.



Quote:
Oops! Another far reaching proclamation that runs afoul of the facts. Yes, though, the Makarov, and the 9x18 cartridge do have a long history. It's a long history as an underpowered pistol and round.

Based on what, because you say so? I'll grant you that its not a widely carried round here, but there are plenty of ballistics gel tests, that show the round to be perfectly adequate for self defense. Its going to make a bigger hole than both a .380 and a 9x19 and is a good penetrator. It won't blow an attacker across a room but neither will any common pistol caliber.



Quote:
Let's see some facts about the lethality of the 9x18. Using it as a weapon with which to shoot unarmed and unresisting people at arms length isn't going to equate to an effective combat round.


Alright. Here you go. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm
Most people here would consider .38 special +P JHP to be a perfectly adequate defensive round. Well it was out penetrated by the 9mak, and it makes a bigger hole. All this with regular ammo. The hotter stuff gets better.


Quote:
Nothing from the last few posts has brought anything to light that would deter a beginner from purchasing, and using, a High Point. Your OPINION is that they're beneath your level of comfort to buy. Your OPINION is that anyone starting out should buy as expensive a tool, toy, or part for any hobby, as they can afford. Great, but, the operative word here is that it's still your OPINION.

Nothing substantive has been brought to bear that would make a High Point dangerous, or would prevent a person from learning how to shoot using one. Somebody not liking the shape, material, or price of a weapon hardly damns it.

Your problem is that you continually hear what you want to hear and nothing more. My whole point has been about quality not price. I buy quality things. If I can get them for cheap then I pat myself on the back. If I can't then I pay more because quality isn't negotiable. There are plenty of things that can go wrong and do go wrong in a number of situations, guns or otherwise. By not skimping where it counts, I'm giving myself one less problem to worry about.

As for my opinion that the hi-point is nothing more than a range/truck gun, well yes that is my opinion. Of course I have a nasty habit to base my opinion on facts. Its a fact that the hi-point uses substandard metals in its guns. Its a fact that in order to make a blowback design work with hotter calibers they had to make the slide overly large. Its a fact that the trigger on these guns is horrible. Its a fact that carrying with a loaded chamber is dangerous. And its a fact that this pistol is all but impossible to conceal.

To make an analogy, the hi-point is the bic razor of the shooting world. It works just fine for its intended purpose, but its not going to give you the closest shave or last a long time. Its a disposable pistol that people can beat on and not feel bad about. Its found a niche and thats great.

Its just not for any serious work. If you don't believe me, then ask yourself why all of the professionals that have a choice don't choose hi-point.
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Old September 24, 2006, 01:55 AM   #75
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,562
You guys continue to crack me up. Every couple months someone has to revive the HiPoint debate.

Guys, guess what. It's a firearm for someone that just doesn't have a lot of money to spend and wants something that goes bang when it should. It's ugly and it works. If it ever fails, send it back...fixed free of charge. I can vouch for this. And suprise suprise, the ergonomics are damn good on these things.

I've had the carbine for 3 years. Very fun gun and it was recently picked to serve as a HD weapon since everyone likes to shoot it.

If I had $600 to spend on a firearm, would I get one? No. $150? I wouldn't think twice.



EDIT: Not sure about the handguns, but my carbine's trigger is quite nice thank you. Nice clean letoff. Better than my CZ, that's for sure.
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