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Old August 30, 2006, 07:13 AM   #26
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Hello Rebelone,
In NO way was I attempting to insult you in, your post just lit the fuse. I am happy that you say you take your shooting seriously and I wasn't implying that you didn't. If this has hurt your feelings my sincere apologies. As for moving to a different club, well here in NJ there are not many at all anymore, they are always get shut down becuase of these plinkers I am speaking of. New Jersey is an anti-gun state no matter what people tell you, they tried years agao to outlaw guns and were not able to so now the dumb polititions are trying to out law ammo, specifically if an out fo stater comes to NJ with ammo, it will be a crime even if they are going to a match and even if they have a valid Federal firearms card. I shouldn't have to leave "MY" club I have been there for 13yrs and I am tired of the idiots. When I think plinking I automatically think idiot with a gun because that's how most of them are. Anyway my apologies again no offense intended toward you. Hadley when you find clapping noises please let me know I can use them also pot stirrer.
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Old August 30, 2006, 10:40 AM   #27
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I shouldn't have to leave "MY" club I have been there for 13yrs and I am tired of the idiots. When I think plinking I automatically think idiot with a gun because that's how most of them are.
After reading the entire thread twice, I have to say this......

Unless you own the property, and facilities it isn't YOUR range, it belongs just as much to the plinkers you hate. I'll admit there are people who come to the range who are inexperienced and do dumb things. Have you ever thought about trying to give them a hand and teaching them, instead of getting on your high horse and berating them? I saw this behavior at the range I belong to this past Sunday. The club president got on his high horse with a kid who actually was doing nothing wrong other than he brought an AK and the president doesn't like them(but they are perfectly legal on the range). As a result, he lost three members, the kid who he booted off the range, and me and my wife who watched his unprofessional childlike tantrum. We weren't even involved with the confrontation, but decided we don't want to be a member of a range that is run by an elitist windbag.
You see it's about choices, if you choose to be a member of a range, you either accept it's members and leaders or you leave and find another range. You chose to be a member at that range you can also choose to buy property and build your own range that is only used by you and you won't have to deal with those horrible plinkers.
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Old August 30, 2006, 11:00 AM   #28
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Well I guess you didn't read to carefully the two times you did read the thread. I have and still do attempt to help those out if they would like help. Also in the thread you will read that NJ is in fact overflowing with ranges, NOT! If I have been a member for 13yrs and these idiot and unsafe plinkers come and go like I change my underwear, they are of NO value to anyone or any club for that matter, they want to be destructive, look cool like TV and movies, and joke around with thier guns. I can't speak up for your past president this weekend, but maybe you didn't see what this kid was doing, like you said "KID". Kids do stupis things sometimes. I guess what I am really trying to get at is, stop being a knuckle head and learn about shooting from groups, leagues get involved and learn. Ignorance isn't bliss it's down right dangerous. I guess I can pose an analogie here: Most people who rent don't care about thier (tenant or landlords) property, they do not treat it like thier own even if they live there or have been there for years, these plinkers do not care about the club/range they belong to and they treat it as such. Maybe the Clubs should mandate that shooters shoot in a league or something like that.
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Old August 30, 2006, 02:32 PM   #29
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I am a plinker because I dont shoot all the time.

when I go:

I follow the posted range rules
use the authorized targets
dont shoot up the the target frames or the range
courteous to fellow shooters
keep my hands off my firearms when folks are downrange or the line is not clear
dont give an opinion unless asked for one
police up my mess

so dont give all us plinkers bad names
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Old August 30, 2006, 02:47 PM   #30
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I think your efforts would be better spent trying to educate and encourage them to become safer shooters than trying to expel them from your club. Many times we don't realize that most people are an untapped resource. It just takes the right opportunity. But by painting all of a certain type (defined only in your mind) of shooter with the same brush, you do a disservice to yourself as much as them. You can learn something from everyone you meet and you may be missing the opportunity to find a new shooter to mentor or your next shooting buddy. The firearms community has a bad enough image (particularly in the East) to outsiders, so let's not aid them by infighting.

Next time you see a plinker, approach them in a friendly manner and engage them in conversation. You may be surprised where it leads. Try the same approach with range officials.
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Old August 30, 2006, 03:30 PM   #31
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Wow.

I am a plinker.

On behalf of all us dumb people in the world, including the New Jersey Society of Plinkers (NJSP), I sincerely apologize.

Thank you for making me realize the errors in my ways.
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Old August 30, 2006, 05:17 PM   #32
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PPCMASTER,

Apology accepted, no offense taken ; sorry if I over-reacted. I AM sorry to hear that NJ is such a tough state for firearms enthusiasts, but I can empathize as Maryland is not a whole lot better (and always trying to get worse, so it seems, even with a strong hunting tradition across the state). Despite living in a populous suburban area, at least we do have a fairly good number of options for ranges close at hand. Hope you can find a way to a good place full of good people nearby. Like you, I have little tolerance for folks that cannot respect firearms. I like staying alive.
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Old August 30, 2006, 09:47 PM   #33
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awww.... ain't that nice


We should all move to a tropical island and start our own club...
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Old August 31, 2006, 06:14 AM   #34
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Plinkers are fine by me - I guess since I'm one myself.

Slobs are a different story.

Quote:
Maybe the Clubs should mandate that shooters shoot in a league or something like that.
If that ever comes to pass, I believe i'd sell every gun I own and donate the proceeds to Brady.
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Old August 31, 2006, 08:55 AM   #35
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When I think of plinkers, I think of father and son shooting. It's as American as a father and son eating at Whataburger after a dove hunt. Now how can that be wrong?
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Old August 31, 2006, 09:06 AM   #36
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Well I guess you didn't read to carefully the two times you did read the thread. I have and still do attempt to help those out if they would like help. Also in the thread you will read that NJ is in fact overflowing with ranges, NOT! If I have been a member for 13yrs and these idiot and unsafe plinkers come and go like I change my underwear, they are of NO value to anyone or any club for that matter, they want to be destructive, look cool like TV and movies, and joke around with thier guns. I can't speak up for your past president this weekend, but maybe you didn't see what this kid was doing, like you said "KID". Kids do stupis things sometimes. I guess what I am really trying to get at is, stop being a knuckle head and learn about shooting from groups, leagues get involved and learn. Ignorance isn't bliss it's down right dangerous. I guess I can pose an analogie here: Most people who rent don't care about thier (tenant or landlords) property, they do not treat it like thier own even if they live there or have been there for years, these plinkers do not care about the club/range they belong to and they treat it as such. Maybe the Clubs should mandate that shooters shoot in a league or something like that.
What you have described are slobs at best, idiots at worst. I shoot alot, I've never shot in a league, and I consider myself a part time plinker. I like to do serious defensive training, not the gamesmenship that leagues foster, it's just not for me. For those into it, have a nut, everyone needs a hobby. Sometimes I like to take my .22 rifle or pistol to the range and plink, it's not nearly as much fun as when I was a kid and could shoot tin cans in the back yard, but I can live with it. I would suggest you work on changing the rules, changing the supervision or just change clubs if you're not happy there.
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Old August 31, 2006, 09:13 AM   #37
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In the interest of clarity, PPCMaster should stop calling these people "plinkers" and call them something more fitting. Mall Ninja and idiot are two names that come to mind.

I hate these people too. Where I shoot, it seems that every week there is at least one guy who feels the need to shoot at our targets or slam his gun down when he can't figure out how to get the magazine in.

I live in a gun-friendly state (Louisiana) and if they tried to make it so that you had to belong to a gun club to own a gun, or even shoot in compitition to belong to a club....Well, let's just say that wouldn't fly too well.

I know alot of people who have one gun and have it strictly for personal defense. They take it to the range maybe once or twice a year to rotate the ammo in it and to make sure the gun still works.

People like this should be required to shoot in a league just so they can have a good means of protecting their life and the lives of their family?

That sounds elitiest and almost anti-2nd amendment to me.
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Old August 31, 2006, 09:24 AM   #38
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Thanks everyone for the great posts. MAybe I should change titles from "plinkers" to idiots. Thanks everyone for your veiw point it's great.
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Old August 31, 2006, 09:30 AM   #39
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Plinking refers to informal target shooting done at non-traditional targets such as tin cans, glass bottles, and balloons filled with water.

Firearms of all calibers and types are commonly used for plinking. At one of the power range .50 caliber rifles have been taken to the desert and used to shatter boulders. But undoubtedly the most common caliber used for plinking is the .22 Long Rifle calibre cartridges since that round is realtively inexpensive and has a low report.






Reasons for the Popularity of Plinking
There are at least three major reasons for the popularity of plinking.

First, plinking has been popular because, in rural areas, one could start plinking with a minimum of preparation and expense. In hilly country with clay soil finding a safe backstop was as simple as gathering up a few stray cans. In many rural areas, up until recent decades plinking was essentially the only way to regularly practice marksmanship. Certainly, a rural shooter might improvise a formalized paper target but even then, the rest of the shooting experience had the character of plinking.

Second, plinking in general allows a shooter much freedom of choice in creating his or her shooting experience. In particular, the plinker is set at liberty from the very restrictive rules found at many gun ranges. Certainly, this freedom can be used to violate basic safety standards (see below). But other typical range rules which are not strictly matters of safety can also be ignored while plinking. Plinkers need not have fixed time periods of shooting before shooters have a chance to add, remove, check, or adjust their targets. In general, plinkers are free to shoot at their own pace.

Many gun ranges also place restrictions on rate of fire, for instance mandating that shooters only fire one shot every three or five seconds. Thus, shooters equipped with a semi-automatic or even automatic weapon cannot get the full enjoyment out of shooting their firearm. Since defense situations often require knowing how to accurately fire multiple shots in rapid succession, prohibitions on "rapid fire" shooting negatively impact firearms proficiency. While private indoor gun ranges often allow rapid fire they tend to bar surplus military ammunition from the range, charge more for shooting rifles than for shooting handguns, frequently disallow the largest calibers, and charge by the hour which forces one to compress one's shooting experience.

Furthermore, most gun ranges typically segregate the three major types of firearms effectively forcing one to shoot only one or two of them on any given shooting trip. While at outdoor public ranges, one can sometimes shoot rifles and handguns in close proximity, shotguns are typically used at a separate skeet and trap range. At most indoor ranges, rifles and handguns are usually fired in separate parts of the range and shotguns are not allowed at all. By contrast, plinkers, can freely change between shotguns and pistols at a moments notice or freely use the full capabilities of a gun that fires both rifle or pistol and shotgun ammunition.

Plinkers can also readily combine shooting with other recreational activities. One can, for instance, bring firearms along for a swimming trip to the local swimming hole or creek. One can swim right before or after one does some shooting and without the need to even change clothes. Plinking is also perfectly compatible with a variety of other outdoor activities, especially hiking.

The third major reason for the popularity of plinking is that plinkers are able to choose their own targets. This reason is related to the first two. Many targets regularly used for plinking are cheaper to obtain and more commonly available than standard paper targets. Second, plinkers are able to use reactive targets which, when hit, are more apt to display the full power of their weapons compared to paper targets hit with similar precision.

Overall, plinking is popular because it allows shooters to thoroughly customize their shooting experience.

Common Criticisms of Plinking
Some shooters disdain plinking because they feel it results in sloppy shooting habits, or because it may bring a bad reputation to the shooting sports because of the litter it sometimes creates. Many though by no means all, non-shooters would be disquieted by shooting which takes place outside of a dedicated gun range and thus hold forth against it on the grounds of safety and noise pollution.


Plinking and Safety
Responsible shooters clean up after plinking and follow general safety guidelines when shooting at any target; when plinking, a major concern is to ensure an adequate backstop exists so bullets will not strike or ricochet towards unintended targets or populated areas.

For better or worse, plinkers do not always follow all safety guidelines, in part, because some of the appeal of plinking derives from the freedom one has from the strict rules enforced at a typical gun range. Thus plinkers do not generally use range typical range commands and it is not uncommon for plinkers who do not use prescription lenses to go without eye protection. Most plinkers will however yell out a warning before starting a shooting session and will make sure their comrades have ceased firing before going out to work with their targets. Plinkers unused to a formal range environment, particularly older plinkers from rural areas, may also omit hearing protection, especially when they are only supervising younger shooters or simply being bystanders. Overall, however, most modern plinkers have extensive range experience and practice basic safety precautions including the use of hearing and eye protection.

In nations such as the UK, with more stringent gun laws than in the U.S., casual shooting is more often done with an air rifle (air gun).


The Future of Plinking
It is difficult to project the future of plinking in the United States and around the world. A number of factors weigh heavily on the viability of plinking in the decades to come.

First, the overall legal environment for civilian firearms owners is of prime importance to the future of plinking. Increasingly restritive gun laws will mean fewer and fewer places one can legally shoot let alone plink. Restrictions on guns themselves are also significant since, the United Kingdom after outlawing most firearms is now considering further restrictions on air rifles.

Second, plinking can be likened to an endangered animal suffering from an increasingly severe loss of habitat. Suburban sprawl threatens established formal gun ranges with closure and this same trend has an adverse effect on plinking. Urban dwellers who move into rural areas for quietude often have a different set of values from rural gun owners who consider it acceptable to fire guns in their back yard at reasonable hours. These homeowners often successfully file noise and nuisance or even safety complaints to force plinkers to give up their pastime or take it elsewhere.

Unlike public or large private gun ranges, few individual plinkers have the financial wherewithal to fight for their own interests where said interests conflict with those of determined homeowners. While many gun owner groups and gun ranges have successfully lobbied state legislatures for "range protection laws" there have been few if any efforts to pass "plinker protection" legislation.

con't below
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Old August 31, 2006, 09:31 AM   #40
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Con't

To protect them against suburban sprawl many remaining open spaces have been made state or national parks but this often has the unintended consequence of closing these areas off to plinkers.

As areas one can legally plink become harder and harder to find, the cost of plinking increases due to travel time. Lack of suitable plinking venues in many parts of the United States has been a chief reason for the overwhelmingly rural character of plinkers in general.

Thus, the future of plinking is dependent upon a number of factors which are difficult to predict.

One possible outcome would be for plinking with firearms to largely disappear but for plinking with air rifles to make up for this, at least in rural areas. This would most likely occur if both the trend towards plinker habitat loss and the trend against more restrictive gun control laws were to continue.

Another scenario also assmumes that that plinker habitat reduction will not significantly abate but that public and private gun ranges will realize the large potential market in displaced plinkers. If this happens, one might seem some partial revival of plinking in a more rigid and structure context.

Adding a sound suppressor to a firearm greatly enhances its potential plinking use, especially when one is firing subsonic ammunition.

Examples of Plinking in the Media
R.Lee Ermey has popularized plinking on his History Channel television show "Mail Call" by using a variety of firearms and other weapons on his mortal "enemy" the watermelon. At times Ermey has used watermelon targets to gauge the relative stopping power of two different weapons. For instance, he compared the M-14 to the M-16. While some might not call such demonstrations, "plinking" Ermey does nothing to hide the pleasure he derives from such carnage and the use of reactive targets to display a weapon's power is certainly in the tradition of plinking.


Tank Plinking during the Gulf War
During the Gulf War, the destruction and high attrition rate of Iraq's armoured divisions, due to coalition air attack prior to the land campaign, gained the term tank plinking among coalition air forces. This was as a result of the abundance of armoured targets and the extremely effective use of strike aircraft, such as the F-15E Strike Eagle, F-16 and the A-10 Thunderbolt, via very high sortie rates and utilizing highly accurate precision-guided munitions such as the AGM-65 Maverick air-to-surface missile. Though the F-15, F-16, and F-14 all sortied in the Gulf War, the A-10 Thunderbolt II received the vast majority of tank kills, firing more than 90% of the Mavericks expended in the campaign, besides its very effective GAU-8/A Avenger.

During the latter parts of the campaign, aircrews learned to carry out missions early in the morning. With the sand still cool after night, the heat from a tank's engine made them stand out on the infra-red imaging in the cockpit. This allowed aircrew to identify targets easily, and precision munitions were afforded an even-easier kill.

The air campaign was so effective that at the height of the air assault, Iraq's armoured forces were being reduced by over 200 tanks and AFV's per day. Apart from the materiel destruction, it also destroyed the morale of Iraqi tank crews, and this was borne out during the first armoured encounters by coalition ground forces, where it was found that Iraqi tanks rarely got off the first shot. As it turned out, the crews were terrified of staying in their tanks, which had been transformed into death traps by the air assault, and as a result, the crews were camping some distance from their tanks.

As a ex-cop ---------I still plink
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Old August 31, 2006, 12:03 PM   #41
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I live in an area where there's a lot of strip mining going on. In years gone by, some smaller communities used strip mines or "high walls" as dumps. You could sit at the top of these with a ton of ammo and shoot down at everything from bottles to old TV sets, and there were LOTS of rats! Bottles were worth 10 points, but rats were worth 100. Each dump was good for several years of shooting before the coal companies dozed 'em over.

Later, I joined the PD and shooting became... "formal". It was still a challenge, but somehow the fun had gone out of it. I've been shooting "formal" now for decades, and had forgotten just how much fun plinking can be.

Well, yesterday, that changed. I help wrangle horses on a 4200 acre ranch, and I'm good friends with most of the full-time staff. I took a new pistol out to show off a few days ago, and one of the newer staff members took an interest. He suggested a staff shoot at his place, and that happened yesterday.

When I arrived, I was delighted. Turns out he's an avid shooter and has a nice, 200 yard range behind his house with stands for rifle and pistol, and a big, sturdy picnic table to bench off of, which was only a short walk to the house, facilities, and of course, the 'fridge .

Six of us were there, and while the Rules were never mentioned out loud, everyone knew and followed them. Not once did I see anything unsafe.

We had a blast (pardon the pun ). We shot everything from .338 Win Mag to .308, .270 Win., and .22 rifles, to .44 mag., .45 ACP, 9mm, .357, and .38 spl. handguns, at everything from silhouette targets to water filled Mountain Dew bottles, to 3" sticky bullseyes at 100 yds. Only thing we didn't have was Tannerite .

When it finally got too dark to shoot, the ladies announced that dinner was ready, and we were treated to an outstanding meal. And of course afterward, we sat around debating who was the better shot that day .

Folks, that was plinking at its finest. The camaraderie, relaxed atmosphere, and fun made me realize what I've been missing. The "formal" shooting still has its place, but plinking re-lit my fire for shooting.
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Old August 31, 2006, 12:24 PM   #42
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Stop crying Capt Charlie. It's OK to be upset. Your "plinking" experience sounds good because you guys were all on the "SAME PAGE" Duh. And you kissed your hosts butt to get what you wanted. Thanks for sharing.
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Old August 31, 2006, 12:30 PM   #43
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Oh again Capt Charlie you were not shooting at a club that charges you $400.00 a year to join. So when you go to the range and find all the targets frames shot to hell , I guess when that happens next time I shoot the birds out of the air or maybe the chip monks, rabbits, frogs they make good targets right Charlie. Or do you have something else in mine OH watch about the range tower it won't hurt no one. I could go to the store and buy almost anything I guess. How about the puppy store, do dogs make good targets?
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Old August 31, 2006, 12:56 PM   #44
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Quote:
Your "plinking" experience sounds good because you guys were all on the "SAME PAGE" Duh.
But it does differentiate between plinkers and the jamokes you're talking about, no?

Quote:
And you kissed your hosts butt to get what you wanted.
What in the world are you talking about?

Quote:
Oh again Capt Charlie you were not shooting at a club that charges you $400.00 a year to join. So when you go to the range and find all the targets frames shot to hell...
I think I would be equally upset with the folks running that range that let it happen, more than once. The membership only ranges I'm familiar with would 86 those people in a heartbeat.
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Old August 31, 2006, 01:51 PM   #45
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Plinkers are Stinkers

Fundamentally I totally agree with everyone of you who expressed frustration about range damage done and safety ignorance on the part of many "plinkers". If you consider the situation, however, I think most will agree that this is part of the down side of a Constitution with a 2nd amendment. As free Americans we all share that fundamental right. Often it is a fine line between gun control and deciding who is qualified to own a firearm. We have more morons than this who go out and "plink" with their automobile. In most states all you need do is show up with the money and drive around the block to get a drivers license. Americans kill a whole lot more people by carelessness with a car than with a firearm. First and formost safety should be paramount in all endeavors. If one is at a "public range" and witnesses a running dummy being reckless then without a doubt it should be brought to the attention of the range master immediately if not sooner. If membership at a gun club is required then rules should be in place by which to expel the plinker and/or his member sponsor or both. Unlike a public range there should be some kind of member requirements in the club charter, I would think. I grew up in a place with miles and miles of nothing but miles so shooting was more of a private thing. Now with the number of C.H.U.D's wanting and needing a place to shoot, the saftety issues are numerous.
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Old August 31, 2006, 02:14 PM   #46
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In defense of the "plinkers", I will say that everyone has to start somewhere. Conscientious people will accept that they don't know everything and will try to learn from someone, and once they have been taught they will apply those lessons to what they are doing. Idiots and yahoos will not. This is one of the reasons I no longer hunt opening weekends. There also seem to be the idiots that think that they can teach themselves anything from brain surgery to basket weaving by reading a book or watching a video.

I personally think civilian pseudo-commando mall-ninja ammo-burners with high-cap mags and a semi-auto are more dangerous to me than a newbie who doesn't know any better.

When I was a kid, I was told that a plinker was an informal target shooter. The term "plinker" comes from the noise cans make when they are hit, supposedly. Now I find out I wasn't a plinker, because I was taught strict adherence to firearms rules and etiquette?

If your range allows stunts and downright dangerous activities like I've read here, I would have a serious talk with the Range Master. Some of these are borderline negligent and could get someone killed very easily.

You can't blame it all on the shooters. Some don't know any better. The club I belong to has a mandatory orientation for all new members, and public range days are very closely monitored. Just my opinion, but if you see someone acting dangerously, do something (not confrontational) to get them to correct their behavior. If that means getting them thrown off the range, so be it. If it means getting involved with them as a mentor, if that's what it takes, you do it. But don't just sit there and rant about how bad they are unless you are willing to do something about it, because then you are part of the problem for allowing it to continue.
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Old August 31, 2006, 03:05 PM   #47
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1. It would make more sense to change the title to refer to morons, idiots, waterheads, etc., instead of plinkers.
2. Stop whining about morons at YOUR range. Nobody likes morons. We get it.
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Old August 31, 2006, 03:18 PM   #48
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Informal shooting just for the heck of it is where most gun enthusiasts learn their chops. So mabey not everyone grew up in your holy church of precision shooting... So what?

You need to calm down or build yourself your own range where you can segregate the sloppy "average joes" from the high-and-mighty paper-punchers.

I like steady, well-aimed fire as much as you. I have to admit, though, that when I am not practicing for or shooting in competition, I like to light off whole mags at a very fast clip. As long as the lead heads for the berm, rather than into the sky or ground, it's none of your damn business how I shoot. You need to bend over and remove whatever animal crawled into your rear.
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Old August 31, 2006, 04:44 PM   #49
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+1 Oldbill.....
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Old August 31, 2006, 04:47 PM   #50
Fremmer
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Join Date: June 19, 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,482
Quote:
In defense of the "plinkers", I will say that everyone has to start somewhere.
And some of us never "progress" to something else. Not everyone is interested in defensive shooting or competitive shooting. Some simply like to shoot informally at cans (or paper targets) just for the fun of it.

At the indoor range, I'm more scared of the "defensive shooting James Bond wannabes" who are trying to draw from a holster quickly and do the double tap (or triple tap) drills, or other such drills. The plinker just wants to have fun. He or she may be an idiot, but generally is not shooting for speed and trying to be "tactical" by shooting quickly and emptying an entire mag.

And lots of the plinkers are better shots than the tactical/defensive folks (but generally not better shots than the competitive shooters -- those men and women will put us plinkers to shame). Many plinkers have learned that adding a bunch of lasers, lights, rails, and huge mags won't make up for lack of shooting skill and practice.

Too bad to hear about all of the rude jerks at your range. The problem is not plinking. The problem is rudeness and stupidity.
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