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Old September 13, 2000, 11:48 PM   #1
BobRowe
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I'm looking for suggestions for a good starting load for .30-06 Sprg to be used in an M1 Garand. I realize that everyone has their favorite bullets and powder. However, I have a large supply of 150 gr FMJ bullets and WCC846 military surplus powder on hand that I want to use. WCC846 has the same burning characteristics as BLC2 powder. The 8-lb keg I have doesn't list max load for .30-06, but does list 46 gr as the max load for .308 Win.

I'm not necessarily looking for a maximum velocity load. What I want is a load that will have enough power to reliably function the M1 action, and will have a burning curve that will not damage the operating rod.

I realize that some people might suggest IMR 4895 or W-W 748 powder, but I want to use this WCC846 powder. Has anybody used this powder, or BLC2 powder in the M1? Thanks.
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Old September 14, 2000, 06:08 PM   #2
mbott
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The reloading article in the M1 reprint from the NRA gives some load information for BL-C2.

"Reloads for the M1 Rifle

I want to reload ammunition for my M1 Rifle. Other shooters tell me to be careful in my selection of components for the incorrect ones can damage the rifle. What should I choose? What should I avoid? Why?

Answer: The warnings you have been given are good ones. Though it is a rugged, piece of equipment, the M1 Rifle has an “Achilles heel”; its long, slender operating rod. Operating rods can be bent to the point of uselessness if continually subjected to propellent gas pressures that are too high. Such too high pressures are usually the result of either too-heavy bullets or too-slow burning powder, or both. In military service, over the several decades that the M1 was either our primary or an important secondary arm, this potential fragility of the operating rod was not a problem. Ammunition for the rifle was developed and loaded that did not cause overly high pressure to be exerted against the operating rod, and so did not damage it. Handloaders, however, can choose combinations of components that will cause damage. For best results, use powders faster than IMR 4320, and bullets of 180 grains weight, or lighter. Suggested loading data for .30-’06 ammunition in M1 Rifles follows:

147/150-gr. bullets – either FMJ or HPBT
IMR 3031 48.0 grs.
IMR 4895 49.0 grs.
IMR 4064 50.0 grs.
Win 748 Ball 48.0 grs.
Acc AA2460 49.0 grs.
Acc AA2520 51.0 grs.
Acc 2495BR 50.5 grs.
Hod H-4895 49.0 grs.
Hod BL-C2 49.0 grs.
Hod H-335 49.0 grs.
Herc Re-12 48.0 grs.

165/168-gr. bullets – either SP, HP or FMJ
IMR 4895 47.0 grs.
IMR 4064 48.0 grs.
Acc AA2520 47.5 grs.
Acc 2495BR 47.0 grs.
Hod H-4895 47.5 grs.
Hod BL-C2 49.0 grs.
Hod H-335 47.0 grs.
Herc Re-12 44.5 grs.


173/175-gr. bullets – M72 or M118
IMR 4895 46.0 grs.
IMR 4064 47.0 grs.
Acc AA2460 46.0 grs.
Acc 2495BR 46.0 grs.
Hod H-4895 47.0 grs.
Hod BL-C2 48.0 grs.

180-gr. Bullets – either SP, HP or FMJ
IMR 4895 43.0 grs.
Acc AA2460 46.5 grs.
Acc 2495BR 45.5 grs.
Hod H-4895 44.0 grs.
Hod BL-C2 47.5 grs.
Herc Re-12 41.5 grs.

The charges listed are meant to approximate the performance of military ammunition using commercial reloading components, including cases. In no circumstances should any charge weight be increased. If military surplus cases are used, charges should be reduced by 1.5 grs. to start. Loads using tubular-grained powders such as IMR propellants do well if primed with conventional large rifle primers (Federal, CCI or Remington). Loads using powders such as BL-C2, AA2460 or AA2520 and Win. “Ball” are best primed with Winchester’s WLR primer or possibly a “magnum” primer from another component manufacture."

Use with caution.
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Old September 15, 2000, 10:48 AM   #3
BobRowe
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MBOTT,

Thanks for the info. I am using R-P commercial cases, and WLR primers. In the data you sent, I see that 49.0 gr of BLC2 was recommended for 150 gr bullets.

The WCC846 surplus powder that I have is supposed to have a burning rate the same as BLC2. I've decided to drop down three grains and start from there. SO I have made some initial test loads (24 rounds each) with 46.0, 47.0, and 48.0 grains of WCC846. I'll try those, in order, at the range, looking for pressure signs and comparing cases and recoil to some M2 ball that I have.

Thanks again.

-Bob
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Old September 16, 2000, 07:19 PM   #4
mbott
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BobRowe:

&lt;snip&gt;
The WCC846 surplus powder that I have is supposed to have a burning rate the same as BLC2. I've decided to drop down three grains and start from there. SO I have made some initial test loads (24 rounds each) with 46.0, 47.0, and 48.0 grains of WCC846. I'll try those, in order, at the range, looking for pressure signs and comparing cases and recoil to some M2 ball that I have.

Thanks again.

-Bob
[/quote]

Bob,

Note that a load that does not show signs of overpressure for the case may still be way too much for the Garand Op Rod. Being conservative with Garand loads is not a bad thing.

--
Mike

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Old September 17, 2000, 12:57 AM   #5
BobRowe
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Mike,

I'm aware of the op rod problem when loading for M1 Garands. I have obtained the NRA recommendations for M1 loads from a number of sources, and they all say NRA recommends 49.0 gr of BLC2 with 150 gr bullets, so I think I'm probably being sufficiently conservative with 46.0, 47.0, and 48.0 loads for starters. As soon as I get a load that reliably functions the action, I'll probably stop there. Like I said in my original post, I'm not looking for top velocity here.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mbott:
Bob,

Note that a load that does not show signs of overpressure for the case may still be way too much for the Garand Op Rod. Being conservative with Garand loads is not a bad thing.

--
Mike

[/quote]

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Old August 27, 2012, 09:40 PM   #6
ltcboy
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Bob,

What are your results with the BLC-2 loads?

I am very interested in hearing how it fared out.


Mike
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Old August 27, 2012, 10:03 PM   #7
Sport45
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Uh, Bob hasn't logged onto the site since 2005 so I don't think he'll be answering anytime soon....

Are you looking for experience with BL-C2 or the surplus powder he was using?
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Old August 27, 2012, 10:18 PM   #8
ltcboy
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Have 4 kegs of Surplus 844. Also have about 2k once fired Greek, Korean and LC brass on hand. I know every one and their mom is going to say to use IMR 4064 or IMR 4895, but I just want to know how Surplus 844 is once fired in an M1. I have read that it has very similar data as BLC-2. So that is why I am inquiring.

As far as "Bob" and his rounds goes, I found this thread on a google search. I replied not looking at when it was last posted.

Mike
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Old August 27, 2012, 11:27 PM   #9
Sport45
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The OP was asking about 846 which is similar to BL-C2. You have 844 which is more like H335.

I've shot a lot of 846 through a M1 and it was flashy, but worked well otherwise. I'm afraid I don't have any experience with 844, but it does fall in the right burn rate range for the M1.

Quote:
As far as "Bob" and his rounds goes, I found this thread on a google search. I replied not looking at when it was last posted.
That's why they have the old thread warning you had to acknowledge before posting.
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Old August 27, 2012, 11:30 PM   #10
ltcboy
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I meant 846. I was wrong, i bought the 846 in 8lb jugs. What was the load size you were using?
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Old August 27, 2012, 11:38 PM   #11
Sport45
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44.5 to 47gr under surplus 123gr AK FMJ bullets for "plinkers".

I also shot 49gr under 152gr M2 bullets. It shot as well as the LC55 ammuntion I had at the time.

There was a lot of muzzle flash though.
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Old August 27, 2012, 11:39 PM   #12
ltcboy
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No problems with any op rods with the 150's?
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Old August 28, 2012, 02:03 AM   #13
Sport45
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No, but then I only burned about a pound and a half of the stuff under the M2s.

I switched to IMR4320 in 2003 and have just run through the last of that. I'm going to AA2495 next.
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