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Old August 19, 2000, 09:10 PM   #1
WalterGAII
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Friend of mine received his new RCBS 2000 yesterday. Had a pretty tough time getting the machine set up, as the instructions were pretty dismal. (This issue of The Rifleman corroborates that view.)

Friend let a double-charge get by him and his son-in-law blew up his brand new, previously-unfired G30.

Conclusion: I don't like the stripper primer feed system; don't like to manually index; would want a powder check/lockout die if I used that machine. Also, I'd want the seating die as for forward as possible, so that I could easily visually inspect each case prior to bullet insertion.
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Old August 19, 2000, 09:15 PM   #2
beemerb
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DILLON

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
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Old August 19, 2000, 09:28 PM   #3
Watchman
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by beemerb:
[B]DILLON

I second that noise !

DILLION 550 b...does rifle and pistol and
double charges are hard to do...
if you cant set it up call Dillion and they'll talk you thru it...
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Old August 19, 2000, 10:29 PM   #4
ArmySon
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Another vote for the Dillon 550B
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Old August 19, 2000, 11:41 PM   #5
Contender
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Gotta have a case actuated powder measure. Dispensing powder manually into cases on a progressive machine is a recipe for disaster.
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Old August 19, 2000, 11:54 PM   #6
jdthaddeus
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The Dillon is a manual indexed machine though. I have not used it, but it seems that it would still be easy to do a double charge (?). I would be glad to be told that I am wrong though...
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Old August 20, 2000, 05:47 AM   #7
JMC
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Unfortunate incident. Good to hear no one was hurt in the "learning process" except for the G30.

RCBS makes some real good reloading equipment, their dies are the best, but in the progressive loader arena, DILLON has them beat.

Sounds like the RCBS press may be a little complicated for the beginning reloader.

Maybe your friend should have considered the Dillon 550B and one of their instructional videos!

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Old August 20, 2000, 08:33 AM   #8
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XL650 w/optional POWDER CHECK DIE

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"

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Old August 20, 2000, 09:53 AM   #9
Gordon Hanson
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XL650!
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Old August 20, 2000, 10:27 AM   #10
DOCSpanky
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SINGLE STAGE BABY! LEE ANNIVERSARY

"Haste Makes Waste!" i.e. G30...... FWIW

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Old August 20, 2000, 11:43 AM   #11
Chris McDermott
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It's easy to double charge a case with any manual index progressive press - RCBS and Hornady (which invented the case actuated system) at least don't dump powder unless there is a case underneath (how do you finish the last couple of rounds on a Dillon, disconnect the powder linkage?). You can use a powder check die with the RCBS 2000, but like the Dillon 550 you have to seat and crimp in one step. Okay for auto pistol rounds with jacketed bullets and a taper crimp, but it really doesn't work well with revolver rounds with cast bullets and a roll crimp. Dillon 650 allows seperate seat & crimp stations and a powder check die, if you accept the case mouth belling at the powder die station (and auto-indexing and the high cost).
Another option is to use a load that produces a case almost full of powder - so a double load overflows the case. Better a mess to clean up in the loading room than a blown-up gun at the range.

I found the RCBS to be easy to setup, except for assemblying the powder measure & linkage. Got the powder measure frame backwards in the linkage, and had to figure out why it bound up instead of working freely. Finally figured it out from the pictures in the instructions, which otherwise were fairly clear. If he was a newby to reloading I can understand problems with adjusting the dies, have yet to find a clear explaination in any set of instructions that came with my dies, presses or in a load book. By reading all three, and slowly visualizing what has to happen, finally figured out what needed to be done when I was starting.
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Old August 20, 2000, 01:25 PM   #12
WalterGAII
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I've already advised the friend to put a lockput die on station 4 and the seater/crimper die on station 5. I finally got a look at the G30, and all I can say is that they're lucky they were shooting a Glock instead of an aluminum or steel-framed gun with wooden grips. The mag was blown out of the well in pieces (the tube stayed intact); the frame was split on the right side just above the trigger; the trigger was disintegrated.

I just got through weighing about 250 rounds that were loaded on the 2000 yesterday. Yep. Found another double charge. 15.9gr. of AA#5 pushing a 230gr. fmj will give you a real headache!!!

I tried to get the guy to buy a 650 with case feeder (he can easily afford the 650). He bought the RCBS for some unknown reason. It seems to be a pretty well-built, heavy press, similar to a 550. I can't figure out how to run one round through the system without continuously feeding primers. Any tips on that???

Thanks, Walter
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Old August 20, 2000, 05:28 PM   #13
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jdthaddeus:
The Dillon is a manual indexed machine though. I have not used it, but it seems that it would still be easy to do a double charge (?)[/quote]

Not that easy. Since you have to make two mistakes to double charge, it's not likely. If you don't index, and to to put a bullet into the charged case, you should notice that there's a bullet already in that station!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would be glad to be told that I am wrong though...[/quote]

You're wrong.

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Old August 20, 2000, 05:31 PM   #14
johnwill
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris McDermott:
It's easy to double charge a case with any manual index progressive press - RCBS and Hornady (which invented the case actuated system) at least don't dump powder unless there is a case underneath (how do you finish the last couple of rounds on a Dillon, disconnect the powder linkage?). [/quote]

From your comments, I'm going to guess that you've never reloaded on a Dillon press, right? The powder funnel also bells the case, and if there's no case in that station, no powder is dispensed. Don't you feel silly now?

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Old August 20, 2000, 05:32 PM   #15
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I guess you could take the strip of primers out of the machine, that ought to keep it from attempting to prime the cases.
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Old August 20, 2000, 05:32 PM   #16
house
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What does the manual say about shooting reloads in a glock? sorry to here what what happend. no realods in any glock.
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Old August 20, 2000, 07:19 PM   #17
WalterGAII
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House:

You want to try shooting 15.9 gr. of AA#5 behind 230gr. fmj through some other brand?? What manual from what manufacturer do you know of that recommends shooting reloads???

Most people who shoot a lot also reload.
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Old August 20, 2000, 09:45 PM   #18
9x45
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house, anyone who shoots alot, also reloads. Doesn't matter if its a Glock or not, I only have 5 Glocks, and the two G21's have about 45,000 reloads between them. And I have been reloading for about 25 years, course it was for a Colt Gold Cup back then. Any manual indexing progressive, including the Dillion 550, is easy to double charge.

johnwill, there are many designs that bell and drop powder at the same station, not just a Dillion. In the end there are 2 kinds of reloaders, the ones that have not had a KB, or squib, and those that have. Even commercially manufactured ammo has a defect rate, even if it is 1 in 5 million.
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Old August 21, 2000, 11:01 AM   #19
alan
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the only method of avoiding problems with reloaded or handloaded ammunition is to pay close attention to whatever it is that you are doing.

Virtually any owners manual, furnished by the maker, advises AGAINST use of reloaded ammunition. If properly done, reloads do not present a problem, and the manufacturers know this too, for even FACTORY LOADED AMMUNITION , Winchester, Remington, Federal, you name it, have had "problems", see the now and then ammunition recall notices. It's simply a matter of cya, since gun makers have no control over what you, the reloaded might do.

Actually, they have no control over what commercial ammunition factories do either, it's just that the commercial operations likely have better "quality control" than a hobbiest.
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Old August 21, 2000, 11:41 AM   #20
ArmySon
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I shot a Corbon 185 gr. JHP this past weekend and it was undercharged. Left a nasty mess behind.
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Old August 21, 2000, 01:19 PM   #21
Mikul
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It is difficult to double charge on the 550. The biggest clue would be when seating the primer. The level goes forward to seat it. If there was already a primer in there, you won't be able to push forward. You should then realize that you may have just double-charged.

Before you pull the level you should simply check that there is an unseated bullet in station 3 and unprimed or no brass in station 1.

On smaller calibers, you can just look inside the brass. On a 9mm I'd be near overflowing with a double charge.
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Old August 21, 2000, 03:05 PM   #22
WalterGAII
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UPDATE:

Friend spoke with RCBS customer service today. They're sending him a lock-out die, free. Also said that they install lock-out dies on every 2000 that they experiment with in-house. Seems to me that they ought to do the same for their customers.
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Old August 21, 2000, 07:57 PM   #23
johnwill
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 9x45:
johnwill, there are many designs that bell and drop powder at the same station, not just a Dillion. [/quote]

I never said there weren't other presses with similar operation, but I stand by my statement that it's not as easy as was suggested to double charge with the Dillon 550. Since I don't own those other presses, I won't comment on their operation. Is it possible to double charge with the 550? Sure, anything's possible.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In the end there are 2 kinds of reloaders, the ones that have not had a KB, or squib, and those that have.[/quote]

Well, I'll put myself in the category of those that have not blown up any guns or had any squib loads. I have had a few primer seating problems that caused misfires, but that was easily fixed. I plan on being careful and trying to remain one of those reloaders that have never had a KB. Will I succeed? Who knows...

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Old August 22, 2000, 03:24 PM   #24
jtduncan
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Slow down and check your charges here and there.

------------------
The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG
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Old August 22, 2000, 03:37 PM   #25
jtduncan
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Just two weeks ago, I ran into a squib load. I apparently hadn't charged the round on my Dillon 550.

The primer fired the 9mm 115 grain bullet a couple inches down my rifling in my carbine.

I wasn't listening to the report and fired another striking the first and lodging the two.

Just experienced residue and pressure blowback and got a bit dirty but no injuries. The Kel Tec carbine has a lifetime warranty. : )

So I'm slowing down on my 550 and listening to how the rounds sound from now on.

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