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Old August 14, 2006, 07:56 PM   #1
sawyerrog
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870 plastic trigger guard

everybody talks about plastic trigger guards on expresses i have two early ninety models with aluminum trigger guards and both have the old style safetys my question is when did remington put plastic trigger guards and key style safetys on them does anyone know about this
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Old August 14, 2006, 08:15 PM   #2
silicon wolverine
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I bought my 870 MM in 99' and it has it.

SW
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Old August 14, 2006, 08:18 PM   #3
sawyerrog
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your marine magnum has a plastic trigger guard/ does it have the key safety
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Old August 14, 2006, 08:28 PM   #4
Overman
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Quote:
your marine magnum has a plastic trigger guard/ does it have the key safety
Mine does (plastic guard and the key safety). Bought it about a year ago. It is my only shotty, and I am very satisfied with the purchase. It may have some plastic, but it's got a solid feel and I have no regrets, and want no other shotgun (at the present time
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Old August 14, 2006, 09:17 PM   #5
silicon wolverine
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Yes mine has the key safety. but i dont use it. its a poor design and the two times i used it i had a hell of a time getting to turn off. Remington customer service said it needed to be broken in. I turned it off and filled it with epoxy. I too have 0 regrets with mine. it has served me well for seven years and over 3000 rounds. I will never sell it.

SW
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Old August 14, 2006, 09:36 PM   #6
cavediver27
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So has anyone seen or experienced any problems with the plastic trigger assemblies? Mine is plastic and I'm thinking about picking up a nice aluminum one to replace it. Of course, most of my semi-auto pistols are plastic framed so maybe it's not really an issue.
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Old August 14, 2006, 10:46 PM   #7
gunslinger555
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I do have some problems with it, its kind of hard to explain it you kind of have to turn it softly. But with my brothers who has had it for a while it turns easily.
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Old August 14, 2006, 11:31 PM   #8
Dfariswheel
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On one of the forums we had a post asking the members to report any broken plastic shotgun parts.

There were a couple of Remington 870 magazine followers, several Mossberg safety switches, and ONE broken Remington plastic trigger group.

I personally saw it, and it was a case of a catastrophic blow that would have broken an aluminum guard.
The plastic guard was smashed out of shape badly enough that you couldn't quite get your finger into the guard, and had flexed partially back into shape.

It looks like the plastic guard as done by Remington is as durable and long lasting as the aluminum guard.

It has some advantages, including that it flexes and returns to shape instead of bending or breaking if struck a reasonable blow, it's self-lubricating, there's no finish to wear off and get ratty looking, and seems to be wearing just as good as the aluminum version.

It looks like replacement is one of those "just because" things instead of a valid benefit.
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Old August 17, 2006, 01:51 AM   #9
skeeter
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I sent my plastic 870 guard and the 2 keys off to Wilson Combat for an exchange to a aluminum/no key model. They charge $40.
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Old August 17, 2006, 04:58 AM   #10
akr
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I have a '94 Express. It has the aluminum trigger guard and the old safety. It also was done more nicely than the more recent Expresses.
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Old October 19, 2006, 11:53 AM   #11
akr
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Quote:
On one of the forums we had a post asking the members to report any broken plastic shotgun parts.

There were a couple of Remington 870 magazine followers, several Mossberg safety switches, and ONE broken Remington plastic trigger group.

I personally saw it, and it was a case of a catastrophic blow that would have broken an aluminum guard.
The plastic guard was smashed out of shape badly enough that you couldn't quite get your finger into the guard, and had flexed partially back into shape.

It looks like the plastic guard as done by Remington is as durable and long lasting as the aluminum guard.

It has some advantages, including that it flexes and returns to shape instead of bending or breaking if struck a reasonable blow, it's self-lubricating, there's no finish to wear off and get ratty looking, and seems to be wearing just as good as the aluminum version.

It looks like replacement is one of those "just because" things instead of a valid benefit.

On one of the forums we had a post asking the members to report any broken plastic shotgun parts.

There were a couple of Remington 870 magazine followers, several Mossberg safety switches, and ONE broken Remington plastic trigger group.

I personally saw it, and it was a case of a catastrophic blow that would have broken an aluminum guard.
The plastic guard was smashed out of shape badly enough that you couldn't quite get your finger into the guard, and had flexed partially back into shape.

It looks like the plastic guard as done by Remington is as durable and long lasting as the aluminum guard.

It has some advantages, including that it flexes and returns to shape instead of bending or breaking if struck a reasonable blow, it's self-lubricating, there's no finish to wear off and get ratty looking, and seems to be wearing just as good as the aluminum version.

It looks like replacement is one of those "just because" things instead of a valid benefit.
One more plus for the 870 Express when we thought it was a minus.
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Old October 20, 2006, 02:12 AM   #12
Bill T
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There are many differences in parts and quality in the different model 870's that are being currently produced. They are as follows.

The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine version, which does NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece barrel. (not 100% sure about this)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.
Has the locking safety button, although Remington MAY have discontinued it.

The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.

The 870 Police has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Police gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A military-grade parkerized finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
Choices in different stocks, including Speed-feed, and others.
18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
Heavy-duty magazine spring.
Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
Sling swivel mounts.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.

The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" sporting gun, the Police is the top-of-the-line in defense guns.
Bill T.
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Old October 20, 2006, 02:03 PM   #13
Dfariswheel
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Bill T:

Copying my old posts?
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Old October 20, 2006, 02:36 PM   #14
Bill T
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Actually I had this in a file in my "Word" software for a couple of years. It's a very informative piece on the makeup of the different 870's. Bill T.
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Old October 20, 2006, 09:19 PM   #15
akr
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Quote:
One more plus for the 870 Express when we thought it was a minus.
yep, one more plus.
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Old October 21, 2006, 06:52 PM   #16
9mmMike
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I have two Express guns here, a '92 and a '94 (IIRC) and they both had the plastic guard. A very sturdy piece IMHO.
Mike
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Old October 22, 2006, 09:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Actually I had this in a file in my "Word" software for a couple of years. It's a very informative piece on the makeup of the different 870's. Bill T.
ummm Bill, that very informative piece comes from the esteemed Dfariswheel himself!

I've seen this several times now...poor Mr. Wheel posts a reply, and others chime in referencing info from older posts by Mr. Wheel himself! No offense to you Bill, I just think it's kind of funny.
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Old October 22, 2006, 01:12 PM   #18
cavediver27
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I wasn't 100% happy with the plastic trigger assembly or the POS 'J'lock safety or the cheap plastic magazine follower that came on my new 870HD w/ 18" barrel and 2 round extension. I bought a new / unused complete aluminum trigger assembly on ebay for $27.00, a stainless steel magazine follower to replace the plastic one and a Wilson Big Button safety to replace the stupid lock. Now I feel I have a reliable well-built 870 that will serve me well for many years to come.
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Old October 22, 2006, 02:40 PM   #19
Bill T
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"ummm Bill, that very informative piece comes from the esteemed Dfariswheel himself!"

Where did I ever say it didn't???? Bill T.
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Old October 22, 2006, 04:15 PM   #20
9mmMike
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Quote:
I wasn't 100% happy with the plastic trigger assembly or the POS 'J'lock safety or the cheap plastic magazine follower that came on my new 870HD w/ 18" barrel and 2 round extension. I bought a new / unused complete aluminum trigger assembly on ebay for $27.00, a stainless steel magazine follower to replace the plastic one and a Wilson Big Button safety to replace the stupid lock. Now I feel I have a reliable well-built 870 that will serve me well for many years to come.
I agree with the j-lock dealy but we do not see many reports on failed "cheap plastic magazine followers" here either.
I would like to see some long-term reports on those heavy stainless followers with regards to peening in the mag tube as well. Especially with folks also upgrading (cough cough) to such heavy mag springs. My Kuhnhausen book seems to suggest this could be a problem.
I suspect that many of the folks who build this combo are not building guns that will ever see the mileage of my own 870's though.
The best follower I ever saw (IMHO) was one that Vang sold for a very short time. It looked exactly like the steel one they offer now but it was made of synthetic something-or-other.
I'd rather spend the money on ammo and range fees but as always......I could be wrong.
Mike
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Old October 28, 2006, 10:12 PM   #21
Little Wolf
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I don't think Bill is correct about the Extractors. Nothing I have seen has indicated that ANY of the main components on the 870s is made any differently on the models. All the recievers are the same, all the barrels are the same and come out of the same mold. The fit and finish IS different, however.
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Old October 28, 2006, 11:10 PM   #22
DPris
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The extractors are different, the police models get forged, others get MIM.
Denis
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Old October 29, 2006, 12:41 AM   #23
Dfariswheel
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Here's what Remington says about the Police guns and how they're different, including about the MIM or machined extractors:
====================================
REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
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Old October 29, 2006, 02:17 AM   #24
skeeter
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I bought my 870 express 5 years ago and it had the plastic/key trigger guard. For $40 Wilson Combat replaced it with a aluminum key-less style. I have decided the only time I want to see plastic on a firearm is when I look at my Glock.
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Old October 29, 2006, 12:02 PM   #25
Little Wolf
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Quote:
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
How often is there an issue with parts breakage of these components?
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