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Old August 11, 2006, 03:45 AM   #1
Doubletaptap
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200 yard help!

I got my Bushy all cleaned and in good shape,went out and fired some different types of ammo and found out it likes Win. 45gr JHP Varmint and Rem
Express 55gr PSP.
Now this is a one year old 24" Varmint Special with a 1 in 9 twist. It's a free floating barrel.And it has a good scope mounted on the flattop.

Here's where I need help.

At 25 and 50 yds it would shoot almost in the same hole. I'm sure it would if I was steadier.Plus I can't seem to get used to that double stage trigger yet!
I use the bipod on the rifle and a sandbag under the buttstock.
When I get to 100 yards it shoots a respectable(for me) quarter size group.
But at 200 yds, the best group so far has been about 4"!!!

Am I doing something wrong?
Is it the ammo?
Is it the nature of the rifle?
It's one year old and it don't show any parts wear yet. Could it be the barrel is not "seasoned"? Or "broke in"?
Any ideas will be appreciated!!
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Old August 11, 2006, 06:08 AM   #2
Ammo Junky
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4" @ 200yd is normal for m193 and a standard ar15. Your varmint rig should shoot under 2" for sure. Your 1/9" twist and 24" bbl may do better with a longer bullet. A lot of guys with your set up use 60gr v max. you might give them a try and check that all scope mount are tight.
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Old August 11, 2006, 06:43 AM   #3
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MOA is MOA. OR a quarter at 100 is 2 quarters at 200. MOA at 200 is approx two inch group (okay, that's obvious). 'Sounds like you are doing something different at 200 or the bullet is. Consistency of the trigger puller is a key factor in maintaining MOA at all ranges.

I'd try some different ammo, but not before I went back to the range and made sure I (the operator) was doing exactly the same thing at 200 that I was doing at 100. With the same ammo at both ranges.

Several times I have swileled around to go from 100 to 200 from the same bench and did not realize that I had an entirely different body position that was affecting the group, because it was affecting release. A buddy noticed. I closed 'em up by completely repositioning. A small thing, but it's technique and it's also basics.

I've shot some casual bench at 200 meters. For me, that is where things that are routine at 100 start to gain critical importance, like width of the crosshairs in the scope and heat waves in the optics , and just plain optic quality.
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Old August 11, 2006, 06:51 AM   #4
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You don't mention what type of scope you're using. But my groups a proportionate to how well (magnification) I can see. I tend to use scopes of a much higher power than most would (actually usually variables), because it can see the traget better. Not always idea for hunting (although I would think you'd want a high power for varminting), but better on the target range.

Also, as someone else mentioned, most people that have 1-9 twist are usuing heavier (62-75) grain bullets. You might want to explore that as well.
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Old August 11, 2006, 08:20 AM   #5
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Wouldn't two quarters be one half? Or 50 cents?
Shooter position is good advice.
Higher power scope is good advice.
Heavier bullet is good advice.
Have you tried a sand bag or rest instead of the bi-pod?
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Old August 11, 2006, 12:25 PM   #6
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Shoot a heavier bullet to begin with, mine likes 68 gr SPBT. Tight twist barrels have a tendendency to overspin the light bullets, affecting accuracy.
Put a decent scope on it with enough magnification (2-7X is the minimum I recommend), mounted at the right height.
When you get to the range, take the bipod off. I know the mall ninjas all say it's cool, but off of a hard surface they make the rifle jump unpredictably under recoil.
Concentrate on proper posture and total consistency.
Breath control, sight control, trigger control.
And don't milk the trigger. It's one of the most common problems with AR shooters due to the grip design.
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Old August 11, 2006, 01:36 PM   #7
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Don't forget that the bullet has more than twice the amount of flight time out to 200 yard. Bullet stability, wind, heat gradients, and such all effect the bullet more than twice as much.

The other thing is sighting - You start to get mirage and you may have a thicker cross hair in relation to your target. Try to not use the intersection of the reticles as much as lining up the outside of the 9 ring so that it's centered.



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Old August 11, 2006, 01:50 PM   #8
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The scope is a 6x24x42 mil-dot and I can see quite well with it. You gave me some good suggestions on position and bullet weight though.
I was wondering if it could be the trigger? I can't seem to get used to the pull on it. It has light pull but it seems the 2 stage take up varies each round I fire. I try to ease it back to the break point and usually it works,but sometimes it seems it breaks early and fires.
I'd like to get a single stage and put in it but they are quite expensive!!!
Problems, problems!!! I know this rifle should be more accurate than it is. I guess I'll just have to keep experimenting!!! That's the fun part!! Shooting more!!!
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Old August 11, 2006, 01:51 PM   #9
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Was it a windy day? The farther the bullet goes, the more it slows down and the more it gets blown around by the wind. In general, heavier bullets seem to do better at longer ranges than lighter.
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Old August 11, 2006, 01:57 PM   #10
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The Bushmaster Varmint's trigger is a good trigger, but I know what you mean about being hard to get the hang of the 2-stage trigger. The take-up is about the same weight as the second stage. But practice with it (dry firing) at night for about 10-15 minutes each night and you will get the feel of it. Then when you go back to the range you will be working in your comfort zone.
The scope should work fine, it has plenty of magnification, but avoid using the higher power until you are really comfortable with the rifle. That way you will avoid trying to jump the trigger when you should be squeezing.
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Old August 12, 2006, 03:02 AM   #11
Doubletaptap
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Thanks fellers!!
Scorch, that's one thing I hadn't thought of,magnification. It's a new scope and I had it cranked up so I could see the bullet holes at 200 yards!!! Plus I'm learning the mil-dots for distance measurements too.
Maybe I'm trying to do too much all at once.
Now as for dry firing,I was told not to dry fire a AR because it may crack the trigger group housing??? I guess I could invest in some .223 snap caps but I'd have to keep putting them back in every time I cocked the rifle?
Can you help with this? I can't afford 20 snap caps!!!!
George
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Old August 12, 2006, 04:04 AM   #12
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Old August 12, 2006, 09:17 AM   #13
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I have made my own snap caps for years with great success.

Deprime the case of your choice, I clean the deprimed pocket with acetone, fill the primer pocket of case with Shoe Goo (available at Wal mart, and lots of sporting goods and shoe stores). It will take at least two applications with a toothpick. Trim any excess. Fire away!

When the detent in the Goo starts to show, another dab of Goo will Doo.
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Old August 12, 2006, 09:53 AM   #14
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alot of things could be doing this..I think the main one is getting comfortable with that trigger,there are other options out there.check brownelles online catalog for options..if its off even a hair at 100, its going to be much more off at twice the distance when you add in bullet performance ,temp and all that other jazz.


perhaps even a smith could look at the trigger and try and smooth things out better for you or maybe itll do it on its own with practice..next, start off with several different bullets,diferent weights and loads to see which one is the most consistant and go from there, funny thing about rifles, they all have a special pet load that outperforms the rest..sometimes in individual guns.maybe they use different powder in the brand you got vs another brand.it all affects accuracy.

hang in there.
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Old August 12, 2006, 11:51 AM   #15
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It COULD be your hold or your scope, but more likely the wind accounts for the exponentially increasing group size, relative to the shorter distance. As the bullet slows down, the wind has more time to work against it going the same distance (100 to 200 takes longer than 0 to 100), and there is more time total which allows for a greater likelihood of an occasional random wind gust to whip up on the way to the target. Not much you can do about that except increasing your velocity and/or your bullet weight. At that distance (200), adding bullet BC won't help all that much - a little, yes, but not nearly as much as just weight and velocity, in wind-bucking. Of course, as weight goes up, velocity goes down, so there IS indeed a sweet spot where the curve maximizes, and I don't know what that is with .223. With .243, the sweet spot is 80 grains with BTHPs - best balance of velocity to bullet weight for wind drift purposes. You might try some Black Hills 68 gr ammo, or something in the 62/63/64 range, like Win Powerpoints.
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Old August 12, 2006, 01:12 PM   #16
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Windflags

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Old August 13, 2006, 07:27 AM   #17
moredes
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Use more lead. (read that as, get a heavier bullet)

Also, as mentioned, turn down the magnification, AND use smaller targets.
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Old August 13, 2006, 09:57 AM   #18
M1911
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Quote:
Now as for dry firing,I was told not to dry fire a AR because it may crack the trigger group housing
Complete and utter nonsense. CMP service rifle competitors dry fire a lot.
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Old August 13, 2006, 03:14 PM   #19
Doubletaptap
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Well thank you all for the excellent responses!!
I will try some experiments and report back to let you know what changed and what worked!!
What a great group this is!!!
George
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Old August 13, 2006, 05:06 PM   #20
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Did you shoot the different ranges with different magnifications on your scope? I was having that problem and found it was due to the scope shifting POI from shifting the magnification around. May have even been the same scope since I was using a 6-24x42 Barska. You really do get what you pay for and I only spent 100 bucks.
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