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Old August 25, 2006, 11:05 PM   #1
oldbillthundercheif
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Elephant Hunting

What countries still allow it?

Has poaching been brought under control or have I just not heard anything about it lately?

"Dangerous Game"- The Elephant Episode is just starting on The OLN Channel. In about 25min they will show the craziest hunting footage ever filmed. It's really fairly impressive.

What's the standard modern equipment for the sport?
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Old August 26, 2006, 04:00 AM   #2
mete
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Modern equipment for elephants ?LOL At least 375 H&H, also 416 Rigby, 458 Win,470 and similar.Either a bolt action or double rifle .I've seen the OLN show about the charging elephant it's great !!
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Old August 26, 2006, 04:30 AM   #3
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458 Lott, Nitro Express, 450 N2.
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Old August 26, 2006, 08:12 AM   #4
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Leave the poor elephants alone. They have enough problems with loss of habitat and poachers. If you want a challenge, go for animals that fight back. Try wild boar for example. Besides, you can always eat the meat afterwards. Their tusks are a lot smaller though.
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Old August 26, 2006, 12:28 PM   #5
oldbillthundercheif
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If you think elephants don't fight back, you need to check out this "dangerous game" episode we were talking about. Those guys came within two yards of being stomped into red goo by a very angy beast.

If it can be done in an environmentally responsible manner, why not?

Do elephants taste good? I don't shoot anything unless I am going to eat it.
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Old August 26, 2006, 05:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
They have enough problems with loss of habitat and poachers.
They'd have even more problems if people quit hunting them. Without license fees from hunters there would quickly be no elephants. This has been true for a long time.

The foreign money brought into these countries by hunters gives the goverments motivation to curb poaching and prevent further loss of habitat.

Peter Capstick wrote a very informative chapter in his book "Death in the Long Grass" about elephants "fighting back". You should read it. Elephants seem to enjoy a variety of methods of ruining your day, all graphically described. I particularily liked his description of the "Stomp and Stick" technique.

I also believe the meat is rarely wasted.

I'm sure you'll hear more on this subject from people more knowlegeable than I.

Good Luck
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Old August 26, 2006, 06:14 PM   #7
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I agree with Stephen, shooting a poor elephant is akin to depth-charging blue whales. Leave the poor things alone, and go poacher hunting instead.
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Old August 26, 2006, 08:27 PM   #8
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.378 Weatherby and one hell of a lot of money...
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Old August 27, 2006, 01:54 AM   #9
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the biggest animal i will ever have the chance to hunt is buffalo (the american bison type) although i do want to hunt (or be hunted by? ) a big kitty. but if i had that kind of cash to spend id probably just buy more guns, cars, or maybe acquire a trophy wife.
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Old August 27, 2006, 02:21 AM   #10
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Ahh, that's the irony. Elephants are smart, procreate fast enough to eat everything in Africa, if not limited by us, since they really have no natural enemies, other then lions, when they are small.

Still, it worked well, before humans became the dominant group.

Best thing you could do to protect elephants is hunt people. PLENTY of poachers I'd rather see shot then elephants. That said, the only thing protecting these animals is their marketability as tourist attractions, and hunting fees.

Aids: the greatest hope for African game. You want to help Elephants? Advocate we don't send aids drugs to Africa.
People or animals? My choice is animals. We have enough people, and, animals don't have as much free choice, and options. They can't wear condoms, and no one makes elephant size condoms anyway.

Harsh? Yes, but I'm old, and really sick of people destroying things, because they can't put the planet before their sex urge... and or, use birth control.

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Old August 27, 2006, 10:32 PM   #11
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Socrates, I hear Earth First and PETA are looking for new members.
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Old August 27, 2006, 10:38 PM   #12
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Dudes

What is going on here? Two posters are posting stuff based on emotion and not fact, IMO:

1. As pointed out, it is ONE and only one thing saving the elephants in several countries over there - hunting and the money that comes from it, from well-off foreign hunters. This money can compete with the money that comes from the corrupt .gov officials allowing their buddies to break the rules and poach them for ivory, in the countries that severly restrict sport hunting. When you have corrupt governments, as you do over there, then it's only a matter of who brings in more money (assuming sport hunting is allowed/controlled) - and thankfully in some countries, it's the hunters with more money than the prices fetched for the poachers.

2. Some parts of some countries over there are overrun with the animals, in my understanding, and very much need sport hunting (or poaching, granted), in order to control their numbers, or the elephants would completely strip out and kill all the vegetation there, greatly disrupting the ecosystems. They are voracious eaters (of course, look at them!), and are quite successful if the habitat is right; like most game, they need to be controlled, both for the good of the health of their own species, and more importantly, for the ecosystems as a whole.

3. If ever there was an animal that can and does fight back, it's the elephant, esp. when wounded. They can kill a man almost instantly, unlike a boar, by crushing him/her, which is how they do it. IIRC, there is only one animal among the Big 5 that kill more people than the elephants, and that is the hippo. Actually, I believe that crocs kill more people than even hippos, but they're not one of the Big 5, so crocs get overlooked in the stats. Elephants are many many times more dangerous than the meanest of wild boar.

4. I assume that the meat is eaten; of course it should be; if the meat is not eaten, the in my book, it is an unethical hunt. A slob hunter is a slob hunter is a slob hunter, regardless of continent or game pursued. Kill it AND grill it - as the Nuge(s) tell ya!

I agree, poachers should be shot. In the leg, and then strung up by their privates. That would be cool, wouldn't it? If the countries that allow sport hunting and actually crack down on poachers, were to declare a season on poachers in adjacent countries whose governments do not control them. No bag limit either!
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Old August 27, 2006, 10:58 PM   #13
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Guess I qualify for peta and earth first, because I'd like to see African game animals around for another hundred years, rather then killed off by the Mugabes of Africa.,, and over population.


Only reason rhinos are still around is their value as game animals. Yes, those organizations do do some good things.
The Ivory ban has made it difficult for the Mugabe's to sell their poached ivory, and, it's reduced the amount of ele poaching.

When they can get 25k for an elephant, or lion tag, and 125k for a rhino, all of a sudden those animals are VALUABLE. Not to mention the high prices paid into poverty level countries, by visting rich folks, to go hunting.

I guess I'm the only Peta and Earth First person that advocates the continuation of big game hunting in Africa.

Over population is a great threat to all the game animals in Africa. Without habitat, they will either be killed for crop raiding, or die off.

The good news is Africa has had the same problems for thousands of years, and, so far, Africa has adapted, and, solved it's own problems. Hope it continues.

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Old August 28, 2006, 08:23 AM   #14
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this might help, and save some bandwidth:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=189864

Yes, the meat is eaten.
Yes, some of the money from license fees is distributed to villagers, giving them a vested interest in reducing poaching. (I disremember which country, but it one of them it's 1/2 the $30,000 fee.)
Yes, there are areas of overpopulation.

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Old August 28, 2006, 08:24 AM   #15
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It'd be sweet to go Harpooning like the Melville days! I'm gonna form a company where we sail out Olde Schoole style and Stabbeth some Thees. Sperm whales aren't extinct, are they? Depth Charing blue whales sounds like fun.

They're animals. They're dirty, ugly, retarded, smelly, and lazy animals. We are better evolved and adapted so it's our right as the master race to enjoy the other races as we see fit. It's how the world works. It's the Jungle's Law. And they do make condoms for Hippos, I'm sure an Elephant size one could be feasible.
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Old August 28, 2006, 08:37 AM   #16
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Art:
The part about Zim really caught me by surprise. I know that's THE place to go, because of cost, but, it's hard to believe, since Mugabe was famous for having his people poaching, and, his get rid of white land owners, and business policies.

Good to hear they are hunting successfully, and, it continues to be a huge income source for the African people.

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Old August 28, 2006, 11:10 AM   #17
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Wow! I guess hunting does help conservation for elephants. I was under the impression that their numbers were pretty low but I guess that is only in certain areas. I still don't think I would hunt elephants, but if it is controlled and helps conservation, go right ahead. I personally, would prefer to hunt the poachers. :barf:
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Old August 28, 2006, 12:41 PM   #18
Art Eatman
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The thing to remember is that any animal which has monetary value will be protected. If hunting of some species is permanently barred, it has no further value to those who would hunt--and they are the primary sources of funds to protect a population against such things as poaching.

No "game" species has ever had its population reduced to endangerment by hunters who are within the parameters of game laws. To speak of such things as the Passenger Pigeon or the American Bison as having been depleted by hunters is irrelevant to anything in today's world.

Another point is that it is the hunting fraternity which has worked the hardest to institute laws about the taking of game, and which has created various sorts of financial systems to control it.

(Granted that politicians get involved and do somestimes manage to screw things up.)

Google for Dingell/Johnson and Pittman/Robinson laws for the excise taxes on sporting goods, and the allocations to the various states. These laws were instigated by hunters.

Check into such groups as the Safari Club International, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Ducks Unlimited and Quail Unlimited. I think DU is now above $100 million in wetlands acquisition for protection of nesting areas for ducks; it was above $50 million some twenty years back.

The relatively new (20 years, roughly) Texas Wildlife Associates is a coordinating, educating and lobbying group for Texas hunting. I've been a member since near its inception; very worthwhile.

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Old August 28, 2006, 12:56 PM   #19
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Elephants, IIRC, eat 150 pounds of hay, or food, a day, each.
Trees are like toys, and up rooting, and eating them play time
for them. As migratory eating machines, they preform important functions in Africa's ecology. However, they will eat everything in their path, and, while good for Africa, that's not good for farmers.

I'd really like to know what impact the drastic reduction in elephants, and cape buffalo, not to mention lion, has had on Africa as a whole.

Surely reducing elephants and buffalo from herds of millions, to thousands, must have had a huge impact...

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Old August 28, 2006, 09:46 PM   #20
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I watched the Dangerous Game episode on Elephants last night. What an amazing hunt. Personally I do not have the money, time, or the inclination to go to Africa. I definatley see how the hunting is vital for them. If you watch the afore mentioned show you will see they take a management bull. They manage their Elephant herds the same way we manege our Elk and other game here in the states.

And to Big Mac: I seriously hope that was meant to be a joke, even though in bad taste.
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Old August 29, 2006, 08:36 AM   #21
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FF,
The Big Five are Lion, Leopard, Cape Buffalo, Elephant, and Rhino. I do not remember if it is the black or white rhino that is a big five.

In the middle 1970's I got to tour Tsavo game park in Kenya. There were lots of elephants. That was right after Kenya banned all big game hunting. I have not returned, but have read where there are few elephants left.

I am sure that in a continant as protein poor as Africa a village or two will have elephant stew for a week or so when one is killed.

If a person has the means and desire to hunt an elephant good for him. I hope there will always be elephants to hunt.

I hope to hunt South Africa in two years. Just a bunch of those antelopes they grow over there.

I think hippo hunting is interesting. You shoot him dead and then wait for him to bloat and float to recover your trophy. Pity the poor bugger doing the envisceration.
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Old August 30, 2006, 12:09 AM   #22
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I saw 2 episodes of that show where they were hunting (if that's what you want to call it) elephants. I'm not quite sure if I would have the cojones to be able to make a good headshot with a huge bull charging at me. I'm sorry if this makes some people mad, but I don't consider elephant hunting a sport. It is nothing more than a firing squad it seems. At least though none of the meat is wasted at all. I'm sure the villagers are more than happy to accept the huge ammount of harvested elephant meat.
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Old August 30, 2006, 04:49 AM   #23
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Maser
Elephants aren't that easy to hunt. They can go where you can't, they move very quickly, they have a form of long range communication, highly developed family system, and, they can form, coordinate, and follow out a plan of attack, on a certain target. However, since they don't eat their enemies, they would rather avoid, then kill. None the less, enter their area, and, they are the number one animal, and **** em off, and they can, might, will, kill you.

I don't much like the idea of killing an animal that is easily as smart as most of the kids I teach, and, lives to be
older then I will.

Not my idea of fun.

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Old August 30, 2006, 07:28 AM   #24
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BTW a hunter puts far more money into Africa than an eco-tourist !!
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Old August 30, 2006, 08:14 AM   #25
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I can not recall the source now. But I read somewhere that Kenya employs gov't hunters using .308 full auto rifles to thin elephant populations.

Too bad that Kenya stopped the hunting in the late 1970's. At one time, Kenya had well-managed big game, and poachers who feared law enforcement officers.
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