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Old August 9, 2006, 10:23 PM   #1
springmom
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You gotta love living in Houston! NOT.

Well, the hubster is in the hospital Among other things, this means I'm going in and out of a parking garage to go into the hospital, which is posted with one of those pernicious Texas 30.06 signs (the legal "thou shalt not carry a gun in here" signs.) I have to admit, I was very tempted to ignore that sign. But I didn't...the gun got locked up securely in the car, and off I've gone into the hospital.

Then tonight, I opted to come home a little early, while it was still light out, because I've had a very bad feeling about the vulnerability of people going alone in and out of that garage. I left the hospital, very much condition orange, very alert. I asked my son to walk me to my car and then I would drive him to his, but he did not want to do that, so I ended up going to the garage alone. As I walked out of the hospital, the security guard walked away from the garage, going somewhere down the sidewalk on the other side of the street out of sight. I crossed the street to the garage, and immediately saw a group of men sitting at a corner. I kept an eye on them as I walked to the garage, and as I got to where I'd turn into the garage, sure enough, here came one old guy straight toward me. The elevator is visible from the corner where these dudes were sitting, so he knew where I was going.

As I hit the button on the elevator, he sidles up to me with a big old grin on his face. I looked at him, and thought, "I don't THINK SO." I glanced at my purse, mumbed, "Oh, I forgot..." and turned on my heel and went right back to the hospital.

I had hoped to find either a security guard or somebody at the information desk who could call for one, but no luck. However, there WAS a nurse leaving after her shift. Since the employees and the visitors share the same garage, I spun back around and headed back toward the garage. We walked more or less together to the elevator, where I got off at my floor, and with my keys in my fist just in case Creepy The Wonder Bum had gotten out there, made it to my car safely.

I posted this because, first of all, I want to thank all of you who have written extensively on this forum about being in Condition Yellow (or Orange, whichever ) because every time I've read it, it's gone just that little bit deeper into my mind, and became just that little bit more automatic when I needed it. Second, as a cautionary tale...there was a time not all THAT long ago when I would have, in a fit of optimism about my fellow man, gone ahead and gotten into that elevator. Maybe I would have been just fine. But maybe not. Too many women in this city have been victims since I've lived here for me to have that optimism anymore. And third, to rant just a bit about businesses that post 30.06 signs and then do not take the responsibility to secure their garages and grounds from people who have no reason to be there, to ensure safe passage and usage for people who DO need to be there.

I jokingly told Archerandshooter tonight, before I left his room, that if I was mugged tonight, he should sue the pants off that place because it would surely be their fault. I'd love to see every 30.06 in the state taken down. I'll be writing the hospital administration this week, and I feel an article coming on as well.

But thanks to you all for sharpening my awareness. Once again, I'm home safe and sound, and in part because of y'all.

Springmom
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Old August 9, 2006, 10:45 PM   #2
OneInTheChamber
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Hope your husband heals well from whatever is hurting him. Glad you were okay.

But,
Quote:
I asked my son to walk me to my car and then I would drive him to his, but he did not want to do that, so I ended up going to the garage alone
SMACK!!! That's not cool.

As for the 30.06 signs, isn't it funny that that happens to be one of the greatest calibers, yet they chose it to represent a no carry zone?
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Old August 9, 2006, 10:46 PM   #3
Shaun
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although i feel you should be allowed to carry your pistol....there are going to be times when you cant, im sure a heavy dose of OC spray would work wonders on most assailants. having that in your purse could be an excellent backup plan.
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Old August 9, 2006, 10:47 PM   #4
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Given the value of human life, I suppose that if a person were truly worried about visiting an area unarmed and yet had no choice in the matter but to go into the area anyway, they might wish to carry regardless of the law.

I find this section in the TX law relating to carry in hospitals to be quite interesting:
ยง 46.035. (h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
I'm not a lawyer, but my read of that bit of legislation means that if one were to actually need a handgun (and happened to have one handy regardless of the signs posted), one could not be convicted for the trespass offense. ('Tis important to note that one could be still be arrested and tried but that if deadly force were shown to be justified, the trespass charge would have to be dropped.)
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Old August 9, 2006, 10:55 PM   #5
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As Shaun pointed out, a can of OC is excellent when those sinister 30.06's come around. You definitely had a bit of a moral dilemma on your hands - life vs. law and all... Wouldn't it be great if we lived in a world where ridiculous decisions like these didn't exist? Writing the hospital administration is a great move - all us fellow CHL holders sincerely appreciate the effort
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Old August 9, 2006, 10:57 PM   #6
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What? I didn't know...

"Oh, when you meant 30.06 I thought you meant no calibers past that range officer! So I guess carrying my pistol should be fine then right? Okay cool have a nice day!"

Springmom, good to know you're safe, and I hope your husband gets better. As for the pepper spray idea, my girlfriend sometimes has to stay out late finish school projects and recently crime has gone up in the UCF area. Mostly punks that are ages 17-25 (sad that they are my age, gives the rest of us law abiding miscreants a bad name.) I think I should get her some pepper spray as an option. Could anyone recommend a good affordable brand?


Epyon


P.S: Come to think of it, I should probably carry pepper spray too since I can't exacly carry to the places I have to be at such as school or work, that and I also don't have a concealed carry permit.
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Old August 9, 2006, 11:04 PM   #7
springmom
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I've avoided pepper spray up until now out of concern for my own well being. If I spray that stuff and it comes back at me, I am at far greater risk for incapacitation, because of asthma, than the BG I might spray. However, I'm re-thinking this. What I'd like to find is something that will direct it in a stream rather than an aerosolized spray that I might end up breathing in myself.

Thanks for the good wishes for the hubster. He was taken ill yesterday at work and went in through the ER yesterday. Tests tomorrow should confirm a diagnosis. As of now, looks like no surgery (yay!) but probably some continued medical care. He needs to hurry up and get well. It's way too lonesome around here after 25 years of marriage.

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Old August 9, 2006, 11:10 PM   #8
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Springmom...

Quote:
It's way too lonesome around here after 25 years of marriage.
Wow! 25 years, it seems it's hard for some people to even be married for 25 WEEKS before being divorced... my girlfriend and I have faith in each other and are taking our time on tying the knot though, at least until we both finish college. As for alternatives for pepper spray, what about something similar to a tazer, how about a knife or collapsable baton?


Epyon

P.S: I once dropped a collapsable baton by accident from my waist and hit my big toenail, it was bruised black after just a suddend drop with no heavy force behind it.
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Old August 9, 2006, 11:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
I have to admit, I was very tempted to ignore that sign. But I didn't...the gun got locked up securely in the car, and off I've gone into the hospital.
You would not be the first Texan woman who regretted not ignoring such a sign...if something really bad were to go down in that place...


-azurefly
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Old August 9, 2006, 11:25 PM   #10
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My best to your husband.

You should send that letter to the hospital and anyone connected with it, and if they smack you down about it and give you some b.s. anti-gun party line

then you should also make them wait as absolutely long as possible for payment from you -- as long as you can wait without making the debt go to collection. Screw 'em!


-azurefly
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Old August 9, 2006, 11:41 PM   #11
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Of what real use?

Let me first say congrats to you, springmom, for (1) 25 years of marriage; (2) the sensible way in which you handled the siutation [IMO]. And I join with those who wish your other half a speedy recovery.

I have a buddy who laughs at us who expose ourselves to the challenges of acquiring and keeping a CCL (widely varying fees for something guaranteed in our Constitution, expensive equipment, rising cost of practicing, etc.) only to be told YOU CAN'T CARRY HERE! Further, if you use the darn thing, you are liable to be sued by the parasitic family of the dead BG to the extent that you might have to commit suicide! He often cites the North Hollywood shooting, which gets aired on MSNBC often enough.

His punch line = "Of what real use is that piece of plastic and the piece of steel in that expensive leather rig you cherish so much?"

I'm not comfortable.
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Old August 10, 2006, 12:10 AM   #12
azurefly
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Benzene, some might refer you to the adage, "It is better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6."


No one says that you have to use the gun just because you have it on you: it's an OPTION that a person carrying a gun has, that a person not carrying a gun will not get to even consider if TSHTF on him.


-azurefly
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Old August 10, 2006, 12:40 AM   #13
JJB2
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my spousal unit has carried oc spray in her purse for years... please get some!! stay safe and best wishes and prayers for your husband..... sometimes it's really nice to live in a small town.... you know who the @&&holes are...........
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Old August 10, 2006, 02:59 AM   #14
Bud Helms
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Springmom,

Is it just possible, given the almost confrontation you experienced and given that you are legally licensed to carry, that you would have a defensible position were you to be caught carrying in this particular prohibited zone? Your life and well-being traded off against your law-abiding tendency to obey the .30-06 signs might be ... well, I don't advocate or encourage breaking state laws, so I won't. It might be appropriate to report the incident to the hospital and NOT mention your license. 'Just a thought. What a tragedy it would be for you to be hurt while visiting the hubster in the hospital. Remember Killeen.
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Old August 10, 2006, 03:41 AM   #15
azurefly
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Ms. Gratia-Hupp was indeed the one I was referencing in my first post in this thread.

She learned the hard way (and made magnificent changes happen, I would add) so that others should not have to.


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Old August 10, 2006, 06:09 AM   #16
Baba Louie
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I've always thought that the 30.06 signs forbidding carry of weapons were:
a. just for the bad guys who probably ignore them in the first place
b. invitations for the bad guys to lurk nearby knowing that almost everyone else will be unarmed
c. a CYA for the business placing the sign, in the event that something untoward happens thay can point to the sign afterward and say "SEE?" and thus wash their hands of any responsiblity, legally & financially... even if their unarmed patrons who cannot remember Luby's get slaughtered (tho that's kinda bad for business in a way, isn't it?).

So I've pretty much decided that concealed means concealed and unless I've got to pass thru a metal detector, what some people don't know can sure save my bacon, if need be... 'sides that, my vision isn't what it used to be and I oftentimes have "other things" on my aging mind to the point that I can look directly at a sign but find my mind wandering back to and focussed on the group of scruffy ner-do-wells congregating around in the parking garage/lot... but, like all things in life, ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

springmom, take care of yer man, tell him we say "hey", continue scanning for trouble and remember that (modified) old adage "You don't need a pistol until you need one right now, really badly".
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Old August 10, 2006, 06:33 AM   #17
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springmom, why do you blame Houston for the hospital's 30.06 policy?

No doubt your hubster was in that hospital in Houston because Spring didn't have the care needed at its facilities or with the docs you wanted, right?

FYI, while I have not been to many hospitals since carrying, probably 3 or 4, all had 30.06 signs posted and none were in Houston.
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Old August 10, 2006, 07:23 AM   #18
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Well something else to consider...

Write not only to your hospital. What if you organized a group of people with you to write letters to local officials to push to do away with the absurd "COMMIT VIOLENT CRIME HERE" signs?


Epyon
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Old August 10, 2006, 07:36 AM   #19
Trip20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
springmom, why do you blame Houston for the hospital's 30.06 policy?...

...FYI, while I have not been to many hospitals since carrying, probably 3 or 4, all had 30.06 signs posted and none were in Houston.
She may have been referring to Houston having a higher criminal, or general dirt-ball element -- rather than blaming Houston for the hospital's sign:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springmom
Too many women in this city have been victims...
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Old August 10, 2006, 08:00 AM   #20
CDH
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Springmom said:
Quote:
I've avoided pepper spray up until now out of concern for my own well being. If I spray that stuff and it comes back at me, I am at far greater risk for incapacitation, because of asthma, than the BG I might spray. However, I'm re-thinking this. What I'd like to find is something that will direct it in a stream rather than an aerosolized spray that I might end up breathing in myself.
It's funny you should say that because I never carried pepper spray before either.
A funny thing happened, however. Well, not a funny thing, but a realization.

After going through the CCW course and then "officially" being allowed to carry a deadly weapon, I was struck with the idea that a lot of responsibility comes with that. So at the exact same time I began carrying a pistol, I also decided to have pepper spray available as a (perhaps) first line of defense. I reasoned that if the pepper spray didn't stop someone, then I would be even more justified to shoot at that point (a nice extra touch for my defense in court).
Plus, I reason that if an attacker does choose to continue at me, he would be more distracted after being sprayed than he would otherwise making him an easier target.
Another thing to think about is that you would probably not walk to your car with a gun in your hand on a regular basis, while you can always walk with the pepper spray in your hand and ready to go at a fraction of a second. Drawing a firearm takes longer than triggering the spray that's already in your hand with your finger on the release, and once you've sprayed the BG, you have bought yourself more time to draw your firearm if need be.
If you carry the pepper spray in your off hand, you leave your other hand available to draw your lethal force weapon so you gain tactical advantage in one way without losing any tactical ability with your firearm.

In your particular incident, even though you made the right decision to not go on the elevator, he could still have grabbed for you so having pepper spray in that case would have been a great (and legally carried) defense.

I have settled on the Spitfire because it is very safe to carry with it's spring trigger, and if you're attacked in your car, it is designed to be quickly yanked off of it's lanyard without having to fumble with taking your keys out of the ignition, and more importantly, without having to turn off your car and lose your best and fastest means of escape.

Think about it.

http://www.spitfire.us/index.htm

Carter
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Old August 10, 2006, 08:46 AM   #21
springmom
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quick replies before off to the hospital again....

...Sorry, doublenaughtspy, I wasn't clear. Yes, I was criticizing Houston for its crime rate, not its 30.06's. Most places, including most of my doctors, don't post those things. You are right, many hospitals post the signs. And as property owners, of course they have the *right*. I just wish they'd have taken the *responsibility* to have an security escort service into the garage, as lots of places do. When I went back into the lobby, that's what I went back looking for. I'll grumble at them about the 30.06 when I speak to them, but I'll strongly suggest that they beef up their security and provide an escort for anyone requesting it.

Oh, and I wasn't utterly defenseless, Carter. I hold my keys in my fist when I walk such places unarmed, with one key sticking out between my index and third fingers. Taught that long ago by our local sheriff for self defense, and while I've never had to use it, I imagine it would, um, create enough of an owie to buy me some time to escape (except in an elevator )

I will pass on y'all's good wishes and prayers. Off for now...

Springmom
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Old August 10, 2006, 09:45 AM   #22
Doug.38PR
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Quote:
Hope your husband heals well from whatever is hurting him. Glad you were okay.
+1

Quote:
But,
Quote:
I asked my son to walk me to my car and then I would drive him to his, but he did not want to do that, so I ended up going to the garage alone

SMACK!!! That's not cool.
+1

Quote:
You gotta love living in Houston! NOT.
+1

Quote:
Creepy The Wonder Bum
LOL


Memorial Hospital on the west side has one of those 30.06 signs too. My mom has just got through going through breast cancer and chemotherapy and that was where she was staying every now and then.

Katy Mills Mall is another 30.06 place. I refuse to shop or go to movies there anymore.

I don't like Houston for a lot of reasons. The crime rate is one of them between the illegals and Katrina refugees, they bring in a lot of garbage with their gangs, drugs and vagrants. Not that Houston was crime free before either of these elements arrived. Don't care for big cities in general. That's one of many reasons I want to move to Louisiana.
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Old August 10, 2006, 09:57 AM   #23
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I encourage everyone to obey their state, local and federal laws. That said, there are times, and places, to focus on the concealed part of CCW. I'm sure the hospital has signs posted for "No Trespassing", or the standard, "No loitering". Yet, you are subject to walking past bums in the garage doing both. Every jurisdiction is different in it's interpetation of the, no guns allowed come rob us signs. In alot of places, if discovered CCW, you must be asked to leave, and fail to do so, before being charged. Check the statutes for your area. Never count on security, I can't tell you how many assault cases I've had, where the only good security did, was to be a poor witness. My last observation, and I sincerly mean no offense to anyone, but if my wife asked my son to walk her to the garage, and he declined, there would be another assault to investigate when I got out of the hospital. YMMV. Regards 18DAI.
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Old August 10, 2006, 10:37 AM   #24
john in jax
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Stun gun

I think you really need a stun gun - not for self-defense, but to help you train your son not to let his mom walk into a potentially dangerous situation alone.
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Old August 10, 2006, 12:13 PM   #25
stevekolt
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Glad you're OK, and hope your husband is up and around soon. Very uncool on your son's part though...
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