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Old August 10, 2006, 12:24 PM   #51
v8fbird
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"Actually #9 is exactly the way you should do it unless you're going to put in a lot of practice hitting the slide release. If you're ever in a stressful situation you lose your "fine motor skills" (hitting that little slide release with your thumb) and are left with only "gross motor skills" (racking the slide with your hand/fist). Watch any IDPA or IPSC match with newer shooters and see how much trouble they have with a reload if they're trying to hit the slide release, then imagine real pressure like being fired at instead of just being timed and you'll see the value of the rack the slide method."



Yes, that's exactly the reasoning they gave, and it makes perfect sense. That's why I didn't list it under my "problems," just under things I "didn't like." They told us that's just the way it's done -- the only way it's done. They didn't say "for beginners we recommend" or "unless you practice this an awful lot, we recommend." And they told me repeatedly I was doing it "wrong."

I would imagine if you were proficient at both methods that you would find the slide release button much quicker for reloading. There are pluses and minuses to each.
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Old August 10, 2006, 12:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Again, THERE WAS NO WRITTEN TEST. THERE WAS NO PRACTICAL TEST.
For the CCW permit or the NRA Class? I'm confused

Did you pass the course or didn't you?
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Old August 10, 2006, 12:36 PM   #53
v8fbird
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"For the CCW permit or the NRA Class? I'm confused
Did you pass the course or didn't you?"



Why is this so VERY VERY hard to understand??

I posted:

"No, I didn’t fail. There were no tests; you can’t fail. UNLESS, I would imagine, you **** off the instructors. That’s why I didn’t try that."


There are no tests to pass the course. There are no tests to obtain a permit. You have to show up and stay to get your certificate. You have to fill out your application correctly to get your permit.

There were no tests.

I did not have to pass the course.

I completed the course.

I have my certificate.
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Old August 10, 2006, 12:44 PM   #54
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v8fbird - have you contacted the NRA training department regarding your experience in the class?

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Old August 10, 2006, 12:47 PM   #55
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"Try thinking a LITTLE outside the box for a minute, the box being your misconception that people necessarily are Republicans or Democrats. I am a Libertarian."

Wow, you garnered all that from my suggestion that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth? You are amazingly talented at reading minds!

In the real world, there were two possible outcomes to the 2000 election.
How many electoral votes did the libertarian party carry? One candidate was and is clearly anti-gun. Interpret as you see fit.

I personally don't care whether you support or join the NRA...I do have a problem with your bitching about a course that you made no objections to at the time of the course, nor have you indicated that you have apprised NRA of the perceived shortcomings. Had you the temerity to point out all these misdeeds to the instructors or NRA HQ, and still remain unsatisfied, then you would have a point.

"So far as I know, GOA does not offer any instructional courses"

Thanks for making the point that GOA and JPFO do not offer education and training programs. They are political animals...albeit much smaller than the NRA. That doesn't diminish their value, but it does put them in a seperate category.
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Old August 10, 2006, 12:49 PM   #56
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You'd think v8firebird had gone out and burned a flag, judging from the unseemly attacks that keep being leveled at him.
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Old August 10, 2006, 01:02 PM   #57
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Quote:
v8fbird - I completed the course.

v8fbird - I have my certificate.
Quote:
v8fbird - I'd end up dumping $100 and not coming out with my certificate.
Ok, I guess now I am really confussed
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Old August 10, 2006, 01:17 PM   #58
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"Quote:
v8fbird - I'd end up dumping $100 and not coming out with my certificate.
Ok, I guess now I am really confussed "


If I had started arguing with them about things, they would have gotten upset. They might have asked me to leave for causing problems. IF THAT HAD HAPPENED, I would have been out my $100 and would not have received my certificate. That is why I kept my mouth shut.

Boondoggie, hopefully this brings us towards closure with your confusion over my plethora of posts which I admit probably are confusing.

"I do have a problem with your bitching about a course that you made no objections to at the time of the course,"

Why? Don't read the thread anymore. Most everyone else seems to think there is something to be gained from reading the thread.

"You'd think v8firebird had gone out and burned a flag, judging from the unseemly attacks that keep being leveled at him."

If I'd actually burned a flag, they'd probably defend it as my right. But criticizing then NRA? That's treasonous! :barf:
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Old August 10, 2006, 01:21 PM   #59
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"v8fbird - have you contacted the NRA training department regarding your experience in the class?
Randy"

No, I haven't. I may or may not write an anonymous letter. These guys WERE the NRA training department. These guys are some of the NRA's range instructors. These are some of the people that are probably THERE every single time I go to the range. I'd prefer to not have my name remembered and associated with "the guy who had problems with what we taught."

Not to mention the fact that I don't have the time to write every letter and make every call that I would like to.
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Old August 10, 2006, 01:45 PM   #60
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Not to mention the fact that I don't have the time to write every letter and make every call that I would like to.
You could have written them several letters in the time you've taken with this thread.
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Old August 10, 2006, 01:55 PM   #61
v8fbird
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"You could have written them several letters in the time you've taken with this thread."

And then it could have been trashed by some intern and that be that. Or maybe I'd get a letter back apologizing and promising it would be looked into. At least this way the people who have read the thread know about my experience.
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Old August 10, 2006, 02:00 PM   #62
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v8fbird,

I assume by what you have posted that this is the range you typically shoot at, right?

Is it practical to go somewhere else?

If so, I would name names in regards to their retardidity and poor job, then just go somewhere else.

There is a range here that my wife and I used to go to that had a few guys that felt it was necessary to constantly try to convince everyone how cool they were. My wife and I at first just got a real chuckle over it...apparently they have never learned the lesson that "you never know what they guy you are bragging to might have actually done".

However, it just got REALLY old. Changed homes (ranges) and have been very happy with the change.
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Old August 10, 2006, 02:07 PM   #63
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No, I haven't. I may or may not write an anonymous letter. These guys WERE the NRA training department. These guys are some of the NRA's range instructors. These are some of the people that are probably THERE every single time I go to the range. I'd prefer to not have my name remembered and associated with "the guy who had problems with what we taught."
Why in the world would you even consider writing an anonymous letter? If something isn't right, stand up and ask them about it.

You are mistaken - the people who ran this class are NOT the employees of the training department.

Quote:
Not to mention the fact that I don't have the time to write every letter and make every call that I would like to.
You had time to write it up for posting on the internet the subsequently defend it. Come on now... that's an excuse.

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Old August 10, 2006, 02:07 PM   #64
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If I'd actually burned a flag, they'd probably defend it as my right.
Oh, then you obviously haven't heard of that preacher who has announced his intent to murder anyone who burns a flag.
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Old August 10, 2006, 02:13 PM   #65
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Quote:
And then it could have been trashed by some intern and that be that. Or maybe I'd get a letter back apologizing and promising it would be looked into.
Address the letter(s) to Mr. Lander, Mr, Quandahl, Mr. Howard, and/or Mr. Sipes. Trust me - it will reach the proper desk(s).

Quote:
At least this way the people who have read the thread know about my experience.
Right - and the people who have read your complaint can do exactly NOTHING for you.

Straight up dude, if you don't have the scrotal fortitude to address this problem with the people who have the ability to make it right for the next person, don't bother posting about it anonymously on the internet.

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Old August 10, 2006, 02:33 PM   #66
v8fbird
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Ok,

Randy, smince, here's the real excuse:

I don't WANT to. I am too lazy to. I am not convinced it would do any good. I WANTED to post it here, that's why I posted it here. I don't WANT to write the letter, that's why I probably won't write the letter.

Smince, I'm glad you are so much more of a responsible citizen than am I. Randy, I am glad you are so much braver than my cowardly self.




Raptor,

I really don't know of any other ranges in northern virginia. I know there must be a few, but I seriously doubt they are as easily accessible to me as is the NRA range. Sometimes it is hard to get away from idiots; that's why I figured I would just keep my mouth shut.

I'm glad it worked out for you.



Heist,

Haha, no. I'd be really curious to read about that one. Do you happen to have a link handy?
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Old August 10, 2006, 02:38 PM   #67
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"Why? Don't read the thread anymore. Most everyone else seems to think there is something to be gained from reading the thread."

Don't read or post unless I agree with you?


"I may or may not write an anonymous letter"

There you go...show 'em what you're made of!
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Old August 10, 2006, 02:48 PM   #68
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Dc?

You say that these guys WERE the NRA training department. I have known some of those guys in the past, why don't you go ahead and name names?
If any head-honchos were involved in this silliness I would personally like to know which ones.

If the instructors were at the top of the NRA training program food chain, I guess you must have completed this course around the Washington D.C. area, right?

If not, then they are Local NRA reps and are entirely open to criticism from anyone they may **** off. You are right that the NRA would probably not dismiss their head of training programs just because they irritated one person, but your assumption that your complaint would not be taken seriously is just plain wrong.

They are quite serious about maintaining a safe and normal atmosphere in their programs. Your complaint could help this be reestablished in your area.

If you are so concerned about persecution from the horrible NRA, go ahead and set up an e-mail account without your personal information attached to it and bounce them off an anonymous e-mail.

I'm pretty sure they will not hire south american hitmen to wax you or try to ruin your reputation or whatever else you seem to be so frightened of...
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Old August 10, 2006, 03:11 PM   #69
taz-2005
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v8fbird - Did the instructors use the word "weapon" in class? I'm a certified instructor and in my lesson plans it clearly says not to use that word since it has such a negative connotation. Just curious.
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Old August 10, 2006, 03:19 PM   #70
v8fbird
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"v8fbird - Did the instructors use the word "weapon" in class? I'm a certified instructor and in my lesson plans it clearly says not to use that word since it has such a negative connotation. Just curious."

I honestly can't remember. If I had to guess, I would say no.
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Old August 10, 2006, 04:03 PM   #71
Heist
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Are there any NRA instructors who can comment on this and who would maybe open a dialogue with the instructors in the class described? It would be good if they can be "salvaged", so to speak.

v8fbird:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=208893

The most interesting post mysteriously vanished, but paraphrased, it was like so: "I CCW, and if someone started resisting physically and fighting back while I was beating someone up for burning a flag, I would be justified to shoot them as I am an old man with back problems and it would be a disparity of force. "
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Old August 10, 2006, 04:08 PM   #72
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Alright, I guess if this thing didn't irritate you enough to dislodge you from your lazyness, there is something wrong with this story...

It seemed credible to me at first, but now seems to me like this is more about your weird, counterproductive hatred for that only organization that can really make an impact on political gun debate.

I now think that your statements can only be an exageration of what really happened in this class. If it happened exactly the way you said, but didn't irritate you enough to devote 5min of your time to an official complaint...
Well, that's real strange.

Did you even take a CCW class or are you just trying to discredit the NRA instructional programs for some little personal slight you felt was directed your way by some NRA rep way back who knows when?

It was probably well deserved.
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Old August 10, 2006, 04:33 PM   #73
v8fbird
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"You'd think v8firebird had gone out and burned a flag, judging from the unseemly attacks that keep being leveled at him."



Hey Heist, how about that last one?
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Old August 10, 2006, 04:48 PM   #74
v8fbird
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"Did you even take a CCW class or are you just trying to discredit the NRA instructional programs for some little personal slight you felt was directed your way by some NRA rep way back who knows when?"



How's that, cupcake?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg certificate.jpg (147.5 KB, 44 views)
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Old August 10, 2006, 05:03 PM   #75
smince
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I live near Shootrite Academy ran by Tiger McKee, a former Thunder Ranch instructor. Besides true CCW/Defensive handgun courses, he teaches NRA courses. This is how they are broken down on his course schedule.

Quote:
NRA Certified Instruction
The NRA courses teaches the new owner or beginner to the safe methods of handling and operation of the pistol or rifle. NRA Personal Protection provides the new owner or beginner the basics in using the pistol for self protection.

NRA First Steps Pistol
This basic class introduces the beginner or new owner of a handgun how to safely handle, manipulate, and shoot their particular type of pistol as well as storage and cleaning. 3 hours, 50 rounds


NRA Basic Pistol
Basic Pistol is a complete introduction to all types of pistols. The student will learn how to safely identify, handle, and operate various pistols. Class also covers topics such as ammunition, storage, and the basic firing positions used with the pistol. 12 hours, 300 rounds


NRA Personal Protection
The Personal Protection class teaches the new owner or beginner how to use their firearm for self defense. Starting with the very basics, this class introduces the student to safe handling and firing of the pistol and then expands into self defense applications. Personal Protection also introduces the protective mindset and avoidance tactics. 14 hours, 300 rounds
Quote:
Anyway, I took my CCW class yesterday night.
First Steps isn't meant or designed to be a "CCW Course".
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