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Old August 1, 2006, 04:54 PM   #1
Revolver Gustav
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Duties of a CCW?

I was just wondering of what the exact 'duties' of a CCW holder is. I know the primary purpose of carrying a concealed weapon is to protect your family, yourself, and your properety, but what else? Is it a natural obligation to aid police should they be after a felon near you? If a woman in a back alley or something is being mugged, should you step up and stop him, call the police, or go on about your business? Is it your duty as a CCW user to uphold the law in a loose way after LEOs? Not like a vigilante, but you know--as a citizen. Just wondering.
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Old August 1, 2006, 04:57 PM   #2
Glockamolie
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No "duties" whatsoever. Defense of myself or family is definite, at least for me. Defense of another 3rd person is on a case-by-case basis.
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Old August 1, 2006, 05:11 PM   #3
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Use common sense

"aid police should they be after a felon near you?"
That will just get you killed, police are traned and you are not and if they see some one with a gun pulled when there trying to stop a felon its a good chance that in there eyes you are a felon too, best to duck and stay out of there way.
I will tell you a story about helping a Victim.
In the 30’s a great man saw another man roughly push a woman into a car, He pulled out his 38 super and at gun point made the man get out of the car and saved the woman. Come to find out the man was the woman’s husband and they were just playing with each other. The man was General Patton.
The point is if I saw a woman in an alley being beaten up yes I would step in, but when you pull a gun on someone remember you’re responsible for your actions no matter how noble they are.
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Old August 1, 2006, 05:36 PM   #4
fairview mick
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Duties

In the CCW classes I attended, the primary reason for carry is protection for yourself and family. If you see another felony being committed, run to the other side ot the street, and in the oposite direction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ASAP. Do not play super hero or cowboy. Just as the previous thread stated, the leo could mistake you for more problems and take you out.
DON'T BE A HERO.
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Old August 1, 2006, 06:22 PM   #5
PinnedAndRecessed
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The only duty here in the state of Oklahoma re CCL holders is that if requested, the holder must function as part of a posse.

Our "instructor" said that no such posse has ever been formed in the state.
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Old August 1, 2006, 06:28 PM   #6
axslingerW
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None whatsoever

however, I will defend myself and family. I might defend my property. I could not stand by and watch a rape or murder. Beyond that I don't really know. I hope I never have to find out.
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Old August 1, 2006, 06:41 PM   #7
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Now what about...

A situation where a woman is screaming and crying in a dark alley because of a rapist(s), I'll admit that much of my mind would just want to go in and help but what would you do in that situation? Am I being foolish and naive for trying to do good and help a would-be victim? I just really hate violent criminals and injustice, probably because I used to live in rough neighborhoods as a kid, up until middle school. Glad I'm not one of those goons, and I'm glad I stayed in school.


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Old August 1, 2006, 07:05 PM   #8
dawg23
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Based on your earlier posts, you are 16 years old.

When you are legally able to carry (in 5 more years), you probably won't feel the need to ask this type of question.
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Old August 1, 2006, 07:10 PM   #9
Epyon
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dawg23...

no need to be mudslinging... that's exactly why I don't carry yet. But seriously, leave the insults for someone who deserves them.


Epyon


P.S: 16 year olds aren't allowed on these forums anyway.
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Old August 1, 2006, 07:19 PM   #10
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Dear Epyon:

That wasn't mudslinging - that was a comment.

Yes, 16 year olds are allowed on this forum. However, if you don't want replies, don't post.
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Old August 1, 2006, 07:19 PM   #11
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Primary duty of a CCW holder is not to shoot anyone who doesn't need to be dead.

Toward that end, you only draw when there is an immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent.

If you're not overwhelmingly sure of the circumstances, and absolutely positively know beyond any tinge of a shadow of a doubt who is wearing the white hat, keep your gun in your holster, get to safety, and call the people who are trained to deal with such questions.

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Old August 1, 2006, 07:26 PM   #12
Epyon
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dawg23...

oh okay just making sure. I guess we 16 year olds need to redo our biography in our profile. By the way pax, thank you for setting the record straight on having a CCW.


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Old August 1, 2006, 07:32 PM   #13
Revolver Gustav
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"When you are legally able to carry (in 5 more years), you probably won't feel the need to ask this type of question."

I guess not. I just wanted to know, though. That's why I posted this.
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Old August 1, 2006, 07:37 PM   #14
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Your Duties in Life do not change

when you get your Concealed Carry License.

You just then have another tool with which to carry out those duties.
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Old August 1, 2006, 07:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Toward that end, you only draw when there is an immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent.
That depends on your jurisdiction

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Old August 1, 2006, 07:59 PM   #16
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I remember when I took my first CCW class how several people asked about this subject. The officer present jumped ALL over them and made it clear that CCW holders are not in any way part of some kind of law inforcement group.
Only after you have identified a threat who intends to seriously harm you or your immediate family are you to draw your weapon (the officer's very animated suggestion) and take whatever action necessary.

His opinion about putting your life on the line to protect someone else whom you don't know was that:

1. You don't know if you are stepping into a domestic dispute which you have NO business being part of. Cops are even afraid of those deals. Call 911 on your cell phone and report it.

2. You may very well be involving yourself in a situation with an undercover officer in plain clothes in which case you might kill that officer and possibly be brought up on a Capital Murder charge. Just as likely, you could get yourself killed by the officer or his criminal target, in which case, you're just dead and the cop gets a week off with pay while the incident is investigated before going back to work and hoping some other damn CCW fool doesn't make the same mistake you did.
If you see a crime in progress, call 911 and report it.

3. We (in the class) have taken upon ourselves the responsibility for our own safety, and if someone else is being victimized, and they are not willing to do the same as us, then that's the victim's problem. If you DO decide to get involved in what you think is a legitimate requirement to protect someone else, first consider #'s 1 and 2.

The freedom to carry a weapon that can kill people with ease is not to be taken lightly, and never forget that the first bullet you fire will cost you about $100,000 in attorney's fees. Your life and the life of those you love is worth that and more. The rest; you takes your chances.

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Old August 1, 2006, 08:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Revolver Gustav - I was just wondering of what the exact 'duties' of a CCW holder is. I know the primary purpose of carrying a concealed weapon is to protect your family, yourself, and your propriety
Your propriety doesn't enter into this equation, unless someone is threatening your life or the life of another (usually another family member), say whilst in your property, you technically have no recourse. example, if you run out to find someone in you car about to drive off and you 'draw down on them' technically you are in the wrong, now if you shot, I think you would have a hard time explaining why, unless of course he was about to use your vehicle as a weapon that is...

Your other 'duties' if you see something bad going down....be a good witness and call 911.

Last edited by Boondoggie; August 2, 2006 at 05:42 AM.
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Old August 1, 2006, 08:26 PM   #18
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CDH, That is one of the most common sense and best replys I've seen to these type questions. There are so many people who are totally unaware of the consequences of even flashing your weapon, much less puting a round down range in fear or anger.
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Old August 1, 2006, 08:32 PM   #19
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+1 RJay, CDH had a great answer. As we've seen in just the last couple of days, the police in TN are VERY SERIOUS about people flashing weapons under any circumstances. A University of Tennessee football player was arrested Sunday for flashing a TOY gun at an off-duty police officer on the interstate. Pulling out a real weapon in any but the most extreme of circumstances is a fast way to find yourself in more trouble than you can imagine.
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Old August 1, 2006, 08:39 PM   #20
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There may be some exceptions, but in general a permit to carry a concealed weapon is just that - a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

It does not give you any rights you do not already have, or entail any duties you are not already required to perform as a citizen. It does not make you a police officer, it does not allow or require you to investigate crimes, chase crooks, interfere with the police, or play private eye.

It does NOT give you the right to defend yourself or anyone else, nor does it give you the right to make a citizen's arrest. You already have those rights; a firearm may allow you to exercise them effectively, but it does not give them to you.

Nor does it entitle you to play gunslinger, banging away at real or imaginary bad guys. If you commit a crime or crimes, the permit will only mean you won't be charged with the minor offense of illegally carrying a gun. You can still be charged with murder or some lesser offense if you kill or injure someone, even if you believe he is endangering your life.

As to helping others, that will be up to you and the situation, but the permit gives you no authority you do not already have. Be very careful, though. In one training course, the rookie investigator was shown a film in which a woman ran screaming out of a house, with an armed man right behind her. The man ran her down, threw her to the sidewalk, and pinned her down. Sometimes, a newbie would shoot the bad guy. But in the scenario, the woman was a mass murderer, the man was an FBI agent making an arrest.

So if you choose to butt in, make damned sure you know what's going down; remember, you have a gun, but you probably have no other weapon. You are not allowed to carry handcuffs, you might not be allowed to carry Mace. You have no authority to take control of the scene, or detain anyone, or interview witnesses, or otherwise act as a police officer.

Jim
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Old August 1, 2006, 08:43 PM   #21
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In CA, the only duty you have is when specifically requested to do something by a LEO, and only following his instructions.
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Old August 2, 2006, 12:16 AM   #22
Revolver Gustav
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If I've made it look like I want to go out as some gun-toting vigilante out for justice... that's not what I'm getting at. I realize that there are serious consequences just for drawing your weapon as well. I guess I'm just too mad at how the world is working to let it settle that a person could stop a crime from happening or stop a person from being hurt and not. I know that's the wrong way to think and that the laws and morality run deeper than that... well thanks for your replies and for opening things up.


Edit - I just realized that I typed 'propriety' on the first post. What I mean was property. Sorry for that.
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Old August 2, 2006, 12:28 AM   #23
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I don't blame you for wanting to help - especially stepping in with regards to a rape in progress - a really dispicable crime. But as CDH said, and as we taught in our CCW classes using real life experiences as cops - the only situations you will REALLY know what is going on are the ones involving you and your family members. Be careful.
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Old August 2, 2006, 12:28 AM   #24
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"Rules of CCW"

Revolver Gustav,
Basic duties of a CCW are as follows..
1 Keep your gun concealed
2Protect yourself and family,belongings with it.
3If you get pulled over by police,show them your DL and CHL
4If you see something going down, call police,do not intervene.
5CHL is for you as a citizen civilian. You are not a officer of the law. You have no authority to do anything other than #2.
6Try not to shoot anyone if you absolutely don't have to. It will cause you days in court,possible charges filed against you and a big hassle. Also you may be sued by the BG or his family.
7Don't take your gun out to play with it or show it off.
8USE YOUR BRAIN
9Don't engage in illegal activity while carrying
10You are a representative of a special breed that can qualify for this license. Be proud of that and don't do nothing stupid to lose the license.

I'm sure some others can add more.

And I don't see anything wrong with someone asking questions and trying to learn beforehand, to help be prepared, as apparently Dawg23 does. Why rip a guy cause he's 16 and asking questions? That's what sours forums.
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Old August 2, 2006, 12:57 AM   #25
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Well, for one thing, CCW laws vary (sometimes widely) from state to state, so we really can't give an answer that covers "most" CCW laws or the "duties" of a CCW licensee in any random state. We'd have to get specific as to which state.

Further, when I took the class to qualify for CCW in Florida, the subject of when you could legally use your gun was THE primary issue that the class taught. It was not a practical gun handling class whatsoever -- there was no gun-in-hand time at all. And Florida does not require practical testing.

Do you have a CCW license in your state? Did you have to take a class regarding the legal issues surrounding use of deadly force? If not, you ought to.


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