The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 12, 2006, 12:05 PM   #1
mrawesome22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
What the hell is case lube?

Hey guys, I have never loaded a rifle shell in my life. I don't even have any reloading equipment. But I am hoping to remedy that very shortly. I know no one that has done the process either, so I cannot talk to someone face to face about it. So I've done many weeks on the net trying to figure out how the whole process actually takes place. This is what I've come up with so far. You buy a single stage press and a former die, seater die and shell holder. After forming and de-priming, you check case length. If case is too long: trim, debur, chamfer. Next, prime then add measured charge. Take out forming die and install seating die. Put bullet in and ram case onto bullet. Am I way off or pretty close. Any advice on getting started on what seems to be a terribly confusing pursuit would be greatly appriciated. Oh case lube. The only thing I can deduce is that you literally lube the outside of the case before forming to reduce friction. Is this correct or am I way off? Sorry for being such a noob, but all I know is, drop powder, slide bar, insert wad, slide bar, drop shot, pre-crimp, crimp. Prolly could do it blindfolded. And would I need an extended shell holder for .22-250 and a RC Supreme using competition dies? Thanks again and sorry for the long ass post.
mrawesome22 is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 12:12 PM   #2
Crosshair
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 5,320
You have to lube the case to prevent it from sticking in the die. (A very bad thing) You don't need to do it with carbine pistol dies, but you have to on all full length sizing dies in rifle calibers. You can buy spray lube that you just spray onto the cases or you put the lube on a "lube pad" and then roll the cases in the lube. I have used the lube pad for quite awhile now, but I am planing on trying the spray lube to save some time. Reloading lube will not contaminate powder and primers so don't try and substitute with WD-40 or anything else.
__________________
I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.
Crosshair is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 12:26 PM   #3
mrawesome22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
Thanks Crosshair. Man I love these forums. That reply took less then 5 minutes LOL. One more thing I am confused about. Why only neck size? So the brass is the exact replica of your rifle's breech? Is there advantage to this? Wouldn't that make rounds hard to chamber? Thanks for your time.
mrawesome22 is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 12:41 PM   #4
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,282
You don't need very much lube ,in fact if you use too much you'll collapse the case shoulder ! A little bit goes a long way ! One lube that can be used is anhydrous lanolin and there are some others I think but those made by RCBS and others is fine. You should be sizing those cases for your chamber not anything else . Neck forming eliminates excessive working of the case if your chamber is not exactly the size it should be.
mete is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 12:56 PM   #5
mrawesome22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
Got it. Here's another one. How many rounds can I expect to get out of 1lb. of H-380 for .22-250? And do I need to get a primer pocket cleaner and flash hole deburring tool? Thanks for all the advice guys. I am lucky to have found such a helpful community.
mrawesome22 is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 01:02 PM   #6
Dave R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2000
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,073
There are 7,000 grains per pound, so its easy to calculate how many rounds you'll get from a pound of powder. Divide the powder charge into 7,000.

So, for example, my charge in a .308 load is 46 grains of H335. 7000/46 yields 152 rounds per pound. For a pistol powder, a 5.6 gr. charge will get you well over 1,000 rounds per pound.

Primer pocket cleaner is pretty mandatory. After a few firings, the primer pocket gets pretty dirty and primers may not seat properly. That causes misfires.

Flash hole deburring tool, maybe not so mandatory. I don't use one and I've been reloading several years.
__________________
I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).
Dave R is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 01:12 PM   #7
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,155
For the original poster:

In your first post, I got kind of confused. You see, you are describing the sequence for loading shotgun shells, and mentioning rifle rounds. Or am I misreading?

Here is a suggestion for you, and I'm not trying to talk you out of the process, at all...

Get a GOOD reloading manual and read it. Then, read it again.

When you get ready to load your first rounds, get an experienced reloader to watch you over your shoulder as you load your first rounds.

Anyway, here is the sequence for loading rifle rounds:

Inspect cases
Clean cases
Resize
Re-clean
Measure cases, and if needed, trim cases. Chamfer and deburr the case mouth, and if the same case has been loaded more than 3 times, be prepared to inside neck ream the case.

Clean primer pockets
Re-prime
Charge with powder
Seat the proper bullet

For semi-auto rifles, crimp.

This is an oversimplification of the reloading process--there is quite a bit more to be aware of before you load your first round. Good luck!
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 01:19 PM   #8
mrawesome22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
I was just trying to say that I've loaded thousands of rounds of shotgun and no rifle. I thought it was abvious sarcasm but misleading I guess. Sorry for the confusion. What is reaming? Is crimp what messed you up? I never even thought that some rifle shells have crimps.
mrawesome22 is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 02:09 PM   #9
Smokey Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2001
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 2,060
Welcome!

...to The Magnificent Obsession--Reloading! Sounds like you're not exactly a stranger to shotgun shell reloading. Rifle & pistol are essentially the same, but with different wrinkles (natch).

Crosshair about covered it as to case lubing. I'll repeat, though, that a stuck case in a die is a Bad Thing, so don't fail to lube yr cases. This is for bottleneck cases, y'know--as Crosshair pointed out, for straightwall pistol cases, when using carbide dies, you don't have to lube, although some guys do anyhow.

If I might make a wee suggestion: TFL is GRR-eat for gaining info, as is also The High Road; however, you're getting into a whole new area, and the questions will be occurring to you awfully fast to post about each one. A useful alternative, IMHO, would be to buy a book called The ABC's of Reloading put out by Krause Publishing www.krause.com which covers all aspects of reloading in minute detail. Get it @ yr local sptg gds sto, gun sho, the I'net, or order from publisher.

Also, I echo Powderman's reccommendation to get a good reloading manual and refer to it constantly. Lyman's 48th edition is my go-to book; there are several other good manuals. More than one manual is better; no single manual can cover all the possible usable combinations of bullet, powder, case, and primer. You'll need a recipie to follow in developing loads--same as for shotgun, for which I imagine you've already got a manual.

So--Glad to have you aboard as a rifle reloader, get The ABC's and a Lyman's 48th, and we of TFL will be needing progress reports, and range reports, as you get ever deeper into The Magnificent Obsession!
__________________
God Bless America

--Smokey Joe
Smokey Joe is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 03:09 PM   #10
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 11,407
Just for giggles, if you reload 40 gr of H380 (what I loaded for my 22-250), you will get 175 rounds out of a pound of powder. While H380 works great, there are other powders out there for the 22-250 that will give you higher velocities and great accuracy.

Buy a reloading manual and study it carefully. My favorite is the Hornady manual because it gives step-by-step instructions on reloading methods, pressure, accuracy, etc. Welcome and good luck!
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 03:44 PM   #11
castnblast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 2, 2006
Location: Corpus Christi TX
Posts: 1,148
1+ on the hornady manual... Excellent source. I have one (volume 1 & 2) in that manual they suggest IMR 4064. I cross referrenced other manuals, and went to the IMR website. www.imrpowder.com and got their reload data. One thing to keep in mind with the Hornaday Manual, they only list the bullets they manufacture. There are others out there. BUT... EXCELLENT source of info. It has illustrations of the process as well so you can visualize. I'm just finished working up my test group. As soon as the wind lets up, I'm going to fire them. That brings up another item...load groups of 4 or 5 and increase your powder charge in .25 or .5 gr. incriments. (I do .5 w/ first set, find the top 3, and work up another set .25+ and .25-gr. below to find the optimum load. Make sure you get a micrometer. Case over all length is ultra critical...Read the manual and it expains that further. Send a message to me, I'll be glad to help you if you have technical questions. If I can't answer them, I'll tell you, and we'll post a thread. We'll get an answer.

Good luck!
__________________
VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter
castnblast is offline  
Old July 12, 2006, 03:45 PM   #12
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,155
Well, compare shotgun shells to metallic cartridges.

Shotgun shells operate at a lower pressure than metallics. With the extremely high pressures generated by modern rifle cartridges, the brass actually FLOWS--usually forward, toward the neck. The neck will thicken, making the chamber walls grip the neck tighter, and leaving less space for the case to expand and release the bullet. Result: Higher chamber pressures.

Inside neck reaming removes the excess brass that has flowed forward, leading in lower chamber pressures. It also removes inner burrs which might affect bullet release and pereformance.
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old July 13, 2006, 11:42 AM   #13
mrawesome22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
O.K. guys. Thanks for all the info. I will be getting reloading manuals and load data manuals. And yes, once I get my first test rounds I will probably be posting thread after thread of range reports LOL. Boy I can't wait to get started. I'm already dreaming of the day I find my perfect load. Yes I know H380 doesn't give the highest velocities, but that's not what I'm after. I LOVE accuracy. And H380 has all the speed I need (according to data I've seen) plus I've read a lot of posts praising it's accuracy. It's going to be my first try. Even though I fully plan on trying IMR4064 and Varget. I've also read lots of good posts about these powders in .22-250. And from what I've read, Varget and H380 are pretty much the same except Varget is a long cylindrical grain and H380 is little spheres. Is that correct? Do they make any rifle powder that looks like shotgun powder? Flat and round? Anyway, thanks for all the help guys and I will keep you posted on my progress. I haven't even started but I think I'm gonna be hooked on this rifle shell reloading. Thanks for all your support and patience. Also gonna be a TFL member for life! LOL
mrawesome22 is offline  
Old July 13, 2006, 12:00 PM   #14
amamnn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2006
Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA
Posts: 1,323
case lube

me, I like to use imperial sizing wax on the case body and fine ground mica or graphite on the necks. That way, you get the lube you need without contaminating the inside of the neck/case. You just wipe off the wax with a rag when you're done and that's it. if neck sizing, the wax is not needed.
__________________
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal
amamnn is offline  
Old July 13, 2006, 03:00 PM   #15
castnblast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 2, 2006
Location: Corpus Christi TX
Posts: 1,148
H380 is a ball powder. I'm itching to try benchmark. It appears to get higher velocities, and hence the name, it was designed for bench shooters. I'm still testing my 22-250. I was at the gunshop the other day, and they were selling "test packs" of powder. There were 4 canisters of 1750 grs. (1/4 lb) of powder in each canister. The good thing is it was not any more (maybe $1.00 or so more) expensive than a single 1lb can. The group I saw for varmint was Benchmark, Varget, H380 and H4895. You may want to purchase one of those if you are not sold on a powder type yet. I wish I had seen it before I purchased my can. IMR had some too, but I don't recall the types.
__________________
VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter
castnblast is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10140 seconds with 7 queries