The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 3, 2000, 11:07 PM   #1
Steve Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 1999
Posts: 4,131
As many of you know, I'm just starting to reload. I loaded 100 rounds of LSWCs (.452"), 50 of them to 1.246" OAL, and 50 to 1.255" OAL. Both fed great. However, 9 of them did not go completely into battery (about 1/8" out of battery)and therefore were not fired. I took all them home, and just measured them. All my good-cycling rounds measure .472" at the thickest point, but the ones that don't go into battery measure around .476". It did not seem to matter which batch they were in. Since these rounds were in the middle of my batch, and the rounds on each side of them were fine, I don't think that any of my dies messed up. Now, it is possible that since I'm new, I was a little jerky operating the press. Could that have done it? Also, I'm battling a primer feed problem (location of shell plate during priming action) so something might have happened to another case while I was removing a bum case. I need a little help here. If you were doing it, what would cause the "bulged" cases?
Steve Smith is offline  
Old May 3, 2000, 11:39 PM   #2
killer45auto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2000
Posts: 173
One thing that comes to mind is you might have your crimp set to tight, which can cause this or not fully sizing the brass before you use it!

killer45auto
killer45auto is offline  
Old May 3, 2000, 11:52 PM   #3
Steve Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 1999
Posts: 4,131
killer, The sizing die is going all the way down, and seems to be doing a great job. I'll keep my eye on the crimp. Too tight, eh? How does that happen?
Steve Smith is offline  
Old May 4, 2000, 12:01 PM   #4
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
Is the new brass? Same lot? Once fired brass has a tendency to vary the AOL. Also, a uneven stroke of the lever will do the same. The bulging, as stated before, is caused by too much pressure when crimping or not resizing properly. Not enough bell to allow the bullet to enter the case properly will do the same. A finished product should measure .470" at the mouth, under .470" at the belly and .472" at the very tail of the case.

You can try to run the bullets through the press twice. Once to install the bullet, the other to crimp only. Start with only a 1/4 turn to crimp.

Robert
Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old May 4, 2000, 02:25 PM   #5
Steve Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 1999
Posts: 4,131
Figured it out!!! All the cases that were oversized were Americcan Ammo (the REALLY cheap stuff) and all the ones that are right are Speer and Federal!
Steve Smith is offline  
Old May 4, 2000, 10:00 PM   #6
Banzai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2000
Posts: 275
Frontsight, you've hit the reason for sorting brass before reloading right on the headstamp!!!

Tom

------------------
A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!
You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!
Banzai is offline  
Old May 4, 2000, 10:40 PM   #7
Steve Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 1999
Posts: 4,131
Next related question: All the others (Speer, Federal, UMC) all had the same dimensions and all operate correctly. I am NOT after extreme accuracy. Do I still have to sort by headstamp?
Steve Smith is offline  
Old May 4, 2000, 10:52 PM   #8
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,482
Not really. Just be aware that all casings are not made equal. Some have thicker walls than others. This causes a smaller case capacity so pressures can be higher, all other factors being equal. So if you start pushing the envelope with your loads (especially rifle cartridges) you might create an over pressure round with one headstamp when it was within specs for another.
Mal H is offline  
Old May 4, 2000, 11:08 PM   #9
char923
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2000
Location: Anchorage AK
Posts: 237
You should sort by headstamp, some company have thicker webing and it will pressure.
char923 is offline  
Old May 5, 2000, 08:45 PM   #10
Josh
Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 1999
Posts: 77
Frontsight,
I have loaded nothing but 45 ACP since 1972 so I have a little expierence here. You do not have to sort by headstamp fot the 1911.

I cannot begin to think how many thousands I have loaded since that time and I shoot in competition so I avg about 10,000 rds/year.

If you have a bulge in your cases set them aside and later run them through the FL sizer again. This is safe to do even though they are loaded up. This will take the bulge out and you shoud have no problem.

As to why this is a problem my money is on the not resizing properly.
Josh is offline  
Old May 5, 2000, 09:09 PM   #11
Jeff, CA
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
You might want to take the decapping pin out of your sizing die before you run those loaded rounds back through it.
 
Old May 5, 2000, 10:51 PM   #12
Bud Helms
Staff
 
Join Date: December 31, 1999
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 12,995
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you have a bulge in your cases set them aside and later run them through the FL sizer again. This is safe to do even though they are loaded up.[/quote]Josh, are you sure about that? Safe?
Bud Helms is offline  
Old May 6, 2000, 09:45 AM   #13
Josh
Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 1999
Posts: 77
sensop,

Yes I am very sure this is safe.

I have done it many times not having a problem ever.
Josh is offline  
Old May 6, 2000, 11:15 AM   #14
nwgunman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 1999
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 312
You DEFINATELY want to take out that de-capping pin before running a loaded round thru the re-sizer!

Also, buy yourself a case gauge (from Midway or etc) and check the rounds after you assemble them. This will let you know if they're within "spec" or not before you chamber them. Stay safe
nwgunman is offline  
Old May 6, 2000, 01:44 PM   #15
Patrick Graham
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 18, 1999
Location: Kokomo, Indiana USA
Posts: 674
I'd recheck your setup anyway. Something doesn't sound right.

Here's a little disclamer that my new redding dies had in them. "Carbide pistol sizing dies are not designed to full length size cases. Adjust the die to size only that portion of the case that has expanded during firing. On some cases an undesirable ring or belt may appear near the base if the sizing die is incorrectly adjusted. This may weaken the case and is not desirable."

This blew my mind, but explained the bulges I was getting at the bases of my 9mms.

I had been full length resizing straight wall cases for 20 years.

I have to keep telling myself over and over, "don't full length resize straight wall pistol cases with my carbide dies or I will get bulges at the base of some of the brass."
Patrick Graham is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 12:50 AM   #16
Bud Helms
Staff
 
Join Date: December 31, 1999
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 12,995
Josh,

Okay. It just seems a little like "tweeking the monster's nose". I don't tumble loaded rounds either, even though I've read posts that some shooters routinely do it.
Bud Helms is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 01:59 AM   #17
Steve Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 1999
Posts: 4,131
I'm going to paste here what I wrote on www.1911forum.com :
When I got home, I measured about 10 Speers, 10 Federals, 10 UMC's,10 Winchesters, and 10 American Ammo (or Arms, I forgot). All had the same dimensions including case thickness, EXCEPT the American Ammo. It had a case thickness of .117" vs. all the others coming in at .112"! Obviously, that's not a measurement all the way across the case, but just wall thickness. I guess the crimp die was crushing the bullet to get those giant cases even close to spec. ID of the sized AA case=.437" vs. a sized Speer at .451" with an OD of the same size (.462). Now if you guys get to adding, you may find me off a tiny bit, (I'm measuring in the dark at the computer instead of full light at the reloading desk) but I'm still illustrating the out of spec thickness of the AA brass. Weird, huh?


Patrick, you have posted the same message on both forums. While I am a newbie at reloading, I can deduce from my experiences and measurements a simple answer. Here are the experiences/tests:
-Case feeds fine, but will not go fully into battery.
-I had to stick a rod down the barrel and carefully "poke" the cartridge out, because it was stuck.
-Upon measurement, the loaded cartridges using the AA brass was .477" OAD, while all brand name cased ammo is at .472 to .473"
-Since the cases measure an approximate .005" THICKER thickness that name brand ammo (equalling .010" OAD) I must be crimping the *ell out of the stuff to even get it that small.
-To further illustrate the problem, I weighed the cases. An AA case w/out primer weighs i at exactly 100 grains, and an unprimed Speer weighs 85.6 grains!
Further tests are found above, in my www.1911forum.com post.
Steve Smith is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 08:51 AM   #18
Jamie Young
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2000
Location: SE/PA
Posts: 4,834
I'm new at reloading the 45 also and I just shot my first reload of 230gr rounds. I had 3 rounds that jammed in my gun and i notice that there was a very small bulge on each one of them. I figured out what the problem was. If you don't Chamfer the shell properly when you seat the bullet you can force the brass down and bulge it. I have to buy a new tool because its getting dull. I don't know what you mean by putting the rounds in the "Battery" but my answer is different than everyone elses so it might be another thing to check out.
Jamie Young is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 09:25 AM   #19
Patrick Graham
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 18, 1999
Location: Kokomo, Indiana USA
Posts: 674
Sounds like a bulge at the bottom of the case.. I've never seen it in 45 but I've see it a lot in 9mm..

According to Redding this comes from full length resizing with theirs or anyone elses carbide dies.

Toss that brass..

Yep.. I post in all forums also..
Patrick Graham is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 06:03 PM   #20
Steve Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 1999
Posts: 4,131
Apparently, I'm talking to people who cannot read. Does anyone understand what I'm talking about? The darn brass is not bulged below the level of the bullet. It's the bullet that makes it bulged! Nevermind.

[This message has been edited by Frontsight! (edited May 07, 2000).]
Steve Smith is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 07:12 PM   #21
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,482
Frontsight, it's hard to say whether you are talking to people who can't read or whether you yourself can't write. I thought everyone here was trying to help you. Please point out in which of your posts you say that the bulge is caused by the bullet.

Also, apparently you aren't working with standard .45 ACP casings. As you said,
"It had a case thickness of .117" vs. all the others coming in at .112"!" I think you must have gotten hold of some surplus Army munitions if the case wall thickness exceeds 1/10th of an inch!

Now assuming you meant a more reasonable .0117 and .0112 then you're talking about only a few ten thousandths. That difference is negligible.
Mal H is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 09:27 PM   #22
char923
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2000
Location: Anchorage AK
Posts: 237
If the bullet is making the case bulge, you think your bullet seating screw may not fit your bullet nose shape very well. The bullet starts alittle crooked as it go's into the case and causing the case to bulge alittle.
char923 is offline  
Old May 7, 2000, 11:39 PM   #23
Josh
Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 1999
Posts: 77
sensop,
Just because you never heard of this technique and choose not to do it does not make it wrong.
I as just stating a fact that this can be done of course minus the pin without any problems if one experiences a problem like
Frontsight.
This does not mean that every round should be run through the resizer die after loading.
Some competion shooters do this because it insures them that each and every round chambers.
Josh is offline  
Old May 8, 2000, 04:03 AM   #24
Bud Helms
Staff
 
Join Date: December 31, 1999
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 12,995
sensop: "Josh, Okay. It just seems a little like "tweeking the monster's nose. ..."

Josh: "sensop, Just because you never heard of this technique and choose not to do it does not make it wrong. ..."

Well, Josh, I didn't actually say it was wrong. In fact, I use a taper crimp on my pistol loads. That's near to the same thing. Actually I have heard of it being done, but not as a "technique", as you call it, but as a way to try to correct a mistake. If you need to "resize" a loaded round, then something is amiss. It shouldn't be a routine operation for properly adjusted dies which are in good condition, with quality components.

Sorry if you felt put out by my comment. I was hoping some other posters would give some discussion on full length resizing of loaded rounds. Could be I learn something here too.

I would have taken this to email, so as not to distract from the thread subject, but you've chosen to remain somewhat anonymous in your profile.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited May 08, 2000).]
Bud Helms is offline  
Old May 8, 2000, 09:10 AM   #25
Jamie Young
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2000
Location: SE/PA
Posts: 4,834
FrontSight I answered your Question i bet your having exactly the same problem i had make sure you chamfer the brass right before you seat the bullet or it will go in crooked and bulge. Read my earliar post you sound pretty ungrateful and i think need to read a little more carefully
Jamie Young is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12362 seconds with 7 queries