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Old April 19, 2000, 02:58 AM   #1
Robert the41MagFan
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Stockpiling rifle powders. Which is more versatile, Hodgdon Varget or Winchester 748? And, do I need a powder that is slower than IMR 4350?

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Old April 19, 2000, 05:18 AM   #2
Southla1
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The Varget may be a little more versatile than 748. As far as the 4350 it all depends what calibers you are loading for, really the same holds true for the Varget/748 question also.

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Old April 19, 2000, 08:20 AM   #3
Fred J. Drumheller
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4350 may be the most versatile powder there is, but if you've an M1 Garand, it's too slow. Nothing slower than 4064 should be used in the Garand or the port pressure will overdrive the action and damage the rifle.

Yr. Obt. Svnt.

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Old April 19, 2000, 11:04 AM   #4
Robert the41MagFan
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Fred, does that hold true for other Auto rifle like FAL's and HK's?

Robert
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Old April 19, 2000, 11:44 AM   #5
Alan B
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My experience with auto loaders is that the burning rate of the powder is critical. You can either over drive the action or there isn't enough force left to cause the rifle to cycle. While failure to extract doesnt dammage the rifle it can be a damn pain.

One of the most versitle powders is 4895 I have seen in used in load books from .223 through 8MM for both bolts and autos.
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Old April 19, 2000, 05:40 PM   #6
Southla1
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred J. Drumheller:
4350 may be the most versatile powder there is, but if you've an M1 Garand, it's too slow. Nothing slower than 4064 should be used in the Garand or the port pressure will overdrive the action and damage the rifle.

Yr. Obt. Svnt.

[/quote]

In one of my old yellow copies (telling my age again ) of cartridges of the world there is a section on US military cartridges and their loads and specifications. For the .30 Caliber almost all of the loads (Ball, AP, API, Match Etc.) are shown using different cannister lots of IMR-4895, varying the weight of the powder of the different lots to acheive a mean average chamber pressure of 50,000 PSI. Now I am not certain if this figure is in corrected PSI or CUP, but I do know that 50 grains of IM-4895 with either M1 Ball, M2 Ball, or the 147 grain Commercial FMJ bullets is a fine safe load in both my Garand and my 03A3 Springfield. Some in many different forums and places have all called IMR-4895 "THE" Garand powder.


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Carlyle

[This message has been edited by Southla1 (edited April 19, 2000).]
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Old April 20, 2000, 02:34 PM   #7
Joefo
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I use 4895 and Varget in my Garands and my AR. The 4895 with a charge of 45gr in the Garand is a nice lite and accurate load that functions flawlessly.

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Old April 20, 2000, 08:15 PM   #8
Southla1
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joefo:
I use 4895 and Varget in my Garands and my AR. The 4895 with a charge of 45gr in the Garand is a nice lite and accurate load that functions flawlessly.

Joefo
[/quote]


Joefo, is that 45 grains of 4895 Imr-4895 or H-4895 (they are close but not exact matches) and is it with a 150 grain bullet? What load of Varget are you usuing and with what bullet? Thanks in advance for the info.


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Old April 20, 2000, 10:41 PM   #9
Colduglandon
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The CMP web site odcmp recommends IMR4895 and provides some detail on the velocities you should be trying for with 150 and 173 grain bullets. They recommend against slow burning powders.
"The powder used to handload/reload the ammunition used in the M1 must not be too slow burning or too fast... In other words, in order to maintain the proper "gas-port pressure", the cartridge must be loaded to closely match the original loading. A good standard load for the M1 Rifle would utilize a powder with the burning characteristics of IMR 4895, coupled with a bullet of either 172/175 grain weight at approximately 2660 fps., or 150 grain bullet at approximately 2700 fps. Other loads are possible, but must be worked up to with extreme caution."
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Old April 21, 2000, 02:26 PM   #10
Joefo
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Southla1, I use IMR 4895. The Same charge (45gr.)of Varget both with a 150gr bullet.+

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Old April 21, 2000, 07:23 PM   #11
Southla1
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joefo:
Southla1, I use IMR 4895. The Same charge (45gr.)of Varget both with a 150gr bullet.+

Joefo
[/quote]

Thank you my friend! I will try that when I get some free time and load up some of the Winchester 147 Grain FMJ that I bought just for the Garand

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Old April 22, 2000, 07:46 AM   #12
Joefo
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Southla1, I've used these loadings with the Winchester 147gr as well as the Hornady 150gr. with good results. I don't think the difference in weight with this light load makes much difference.

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Old April 24, 2000, 10:56 AM   #13
Robert the41MagFan
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Gentlemen,

Thanks for your help. You all saved me a months worth of R&D on my 308.

Robert
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Old April 24, 2000, 10:58 PM   #14
alan
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For historical value, the 1966 or 1967 National Match Ammunition was loaded as follows:

Bullet: 173 grain (nominal) FA Match Bullet
OAL 3.34"
Propellant: 47.5 grains of 4895. This was a non-canister grade of 4895, meaning NOT the same as you would buy at your local reloading supply outlet. Remember that the government arsenals where Match Ammunmition was loaded, Lake City after Frankfort was closed, has equipment available to determine both velocity and pressure. They would adjust powder charges so that a desired level of accuracy was obtained, in special test barrels, while velocity and pressure fell within certain parameters.
They used special primers too.

[This message has been edited by alan (edited April 24, 2000).]
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