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Old June 29, 2006, 03:54 PM   #26
Mike P. Wagner
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When the government needed new pistols to protect America they turned to SIGARMS® for the SIG SAUER® P229. Now, a limited production run of 1,000 P229 HSP™ pistols are available engraved with the American flag and “Homeland Security 1 of 1000”.
Marketing droids. When I read this I had to laugh - I can imagine all HS employees carrying weapons with flags on them and a engraving that says "Homeland Security x of 1000." I guess they should also wear nametags that say, "Don't shoot the guy next to me, shoot me. I'm with Homeland Security!"

Reminds me of the time I was at a 4th of July Part at the embassy in Mogadishu, and a very drunk guy I had never met before came up and starting telling me how this was his first post, and he was in Naval Intelligence. I thought to myself, "Not for long!"

My own guess, and I kicked around the Middle East for a while as a Peace Corps Volunteer and otherwise, is that almost all of the intimate violence done on behalf of the CIA is done by locals for cold cash. If it all blows up, then the CIA and the US government have no connection.

Why the heck would you have an "agent" doing anything that you could pay a local to do? The local doesn't have to work to blend in - he's local. And he's got no discernible connection to the US government.

Trust me on this one - if a local politician or security type gets whacked, as an American, or a foreigner in general, you don't want to be in the same province. And you sure as heck don't want to be in the same province with a weapon in your possession. Maybe there are places in Europe where you could pass as a local. But in the places I lived, you'd be locked up until they sorted it all out.

So I guess that the answer to the question is that most folks doing that kind of work for the CIA are locals, using whatever is available locally.

I am pretty sure that the Bourne identity is *not* a documentary

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Old June 29, 2006, 04:37 PM   #27
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Marketing bloviation. THERE ARE NO "HOMELAND SECURITY" AGENTS. Doesn't exist. There are a number of agencies that report to the Dept. of Homeland Security, including TSA, Border Patrol, ICE, Coast Guard, Secret Service.

These agencies don't all carry the same guns. Secret Service is Sig. ICE is Beretta 96 and HK USPc. Coast Guard is M9. Dunno about Border Patrol.
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Old June 29, 2006, 05:57 PM   #28
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These agencies don't all carry the same guns. Secret Service is Sig. ICE is Beretta 96 and HK USPc. Coast Guard is M9. Dunno about Border Patrol.
Actually Coast Guard is switching over to Sigs
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Old June 29, 2006, 09:42 PM   #29
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Most often a CIA 'agent' is a foreign national (usually in need of a bath) who does slimey things in return for cash and promises made by a CIA officer, usually stationed in a U.S. embassy somewhere.

CIA officers do not want to attract attention and usually avoid things like carrying guns, wearing trenchcoats or secret decoder rings. Most try very hard to impersonate state department diplodunk nerds because they are usually posted in an embassy with some 'cover' assignment that would only confuse the dumbest of opposition watchers.
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Old June 29, 2006, 09:46 PM   #30
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So there are no DHS agents eh. Then who the hell were the guys running around during Superbowl week looking like cops in big white explorers decked out like cop cars marked "DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY" ?
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Old June 29, 2006, 09:57 PM   #31
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This thread sort of bears on something thriller writers do that Incurs my Scorn. James Bond did it-- ".357 Magnum revolver with no serial number- you're CIA." Solid gold bullets. Guns specialized to shave the rifling marks off the bullet as it leaves the barrel. Gyroc pistols, or whatever you called them. The Medusa revolver. Some weird obscure caliber pistol that was only made in Lithuania from 1937 until 1939. Whenever you have some Maximum Baddie in a thriller, he always has to have some weapon that is spectacularly unique. Just to make sure that any cop IN THE ENTIRE WORLD will be able to look at the crime scene and say "AHA! A casing from a .388 Twin-Neck Tornado! This is the work of the famous assasin Ignatz the Weasel!"

In fact, anyone who really DID have such dirty work to do would want to do it with the most unremarkable weapon possible. Hit the target over the head, steal his wallet and credit cards, and make it look like a random mugging, if possible. Otherwise, if a gun were involved, whatever is available, unremarkable, and untracable. As Sherlock Holmes himself said, remarkable crimes are easy to solve. It's the mundane ones that most often go unpunished.

I'll try to keep that in mind in case my Collection of Unpublished Novels (six so far) ever ventures into the Detective Fiction area.
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Old June 29, 2006, 11:12 PM   #32
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M1911:
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I believe Coast Guard uses M9.
SiG P226's last I heard. The rest of us saltwater types (the regular Navy) use the M9, though.
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Old June 29, 2006, 11:34 PM   #33
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I think they mainly rely upon the secrecy created by their use of the cone of silence to preserve their safety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_of_silence
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Old June 30, 2006, 10:47 AM   #34
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So there are no DHS agents eh. Then who the hell were the guys running around during Superbowl week looking like cops in big white explorers decked out like cop cars marked "DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY" ?
Probably uniformed Secret Service agents. The SS has taken responsibility for security as such high profile events.

There are no DHS agents. There are agents that belong to the various agencies that report to DHS. That is, Secret Service, ICE, Border Patrol, etc. all have agents. All of those organizations are part of DHS.
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Old June 30, 2006, 02:28 PM   #35
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Walther PPK. 7.65mm. Hits like a brick through a plate glass window...

Most spys don't even carry at all. The ones that do will probably use something indigenous to the area of operations. Knives are popular, too.
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Old June 30, 2006, 02:33 PM   #36
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One of my brothers-in-law works for the CIA and has for over 20 years, the whole time in Langley, though this year he started working at the White House (and its nothing like the TV show, he says). But anyway, he did receive weapon training, though it don't remember what with (this was more than a few years ago. He also went through some short course at Ft. Benning in the way of familiarization with various weapons. And he also has been through a, shall we say, defensive driving course.

So they are a little more than just office workers.

I have another in-law relative who married a Serbian and was a journalist in the second invasion of Iraq (got thrown out, too). Have you met the rest of the family?
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Old July 3, 2006, 07:29 AM   #37
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After thinking about this over the weekend, I recall that his firearms familiarization was with .38 revolvers. He stated that small frame revolvers were made available in overseas stations for issue out if CIA employees felt the need. This was not referring to covert employees, who probably had fewer rules to follow and never had anything to do with local overseas detachments. The information about the specific firearms is probably a little dated now.
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Old July 3, 2006, 09:46 AM   #38
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a really good spook never carries a weapon.
He/She looks like a clerk and you wouldn't look at him or her twice.
Jimmy Bond is a cartoon.

AFS
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Old July 5, 2006, 10:17 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by AirForceShooter
a really good spook never carries a weapon.
He/She looks like a clerk and you wouldn't look at him or her twice.
Jimmy Bond is a cartoon.
Agreed. In the movie TRUE LIES, I thought Tom Arnold would have made a much better spy than Ah-nuld...
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Old July 5, 2006, 02:29 PM   #40
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle
"Intelligence agencies and military special forces have used suppressed 22 LR pistols for assassinations and for eliminating guard dogs or sentries. Some examples include the use of suppressed High Standard HD pistols by the American OSS, which was the predecessor organization of the CIA. Gary Powers was issued a suppressed High Standard for the flight in which he was shot down. Suppressed Ruger MK II pistols are in current use by the US Navy SEALs."

Doesn't say they still use it but it makes sense that the 22lr would still fill a niche.
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Old July 8, 2011, 09:04 PM   #41
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What guns do the CIA use

Field officers; after WWII; did carry the Walthers P-38/S some with threaded barrels (for suppression) or, the Walther PPK/S (suppressed or, not) as, a huge stock of Nazi weapons were found in the firearms factories in Europe These weapons were unregistered and, thus were ideal for the field; also, the ability to quickly change barrel blocks and, file firing pins, barrels, etc. was a big plus (for the P-38) as quick disposal if needed was assurred. Before the war the OSS used a chopped Colt Commander Officer's model or, a Hi Standard suppressed 22 long rifle pistol. Currently; the Agency issues no formal weapon as Law Enforcement is not the mission; however, most carry a Glock 26 as 9mm is easy to procure worldwide or, a Barretta thomcat SAD the Commando unit of the Agency use whatever is common in the region of operations All field officers train with a large selection of weapons although they need not be experts in all of them. Hope this answers the question.
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Old July 8, 2011, 09:35 PM   #42
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The Glock 7

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=Glock%207

You think it's not real after Bruce Willis outed it in Die Hard but I know (can't tell how) - that it is real.

Knowledge of the gun was kept hidden from the public after a shoot-out in CIA headquarters between Glock 7 carriers and those who favored a ceramic 1911.
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Old July 8, 2011, 09:50 PM   #43
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They carry Duct Tape.

Don't you watch Burn Notice?


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This is the work of the famous assasin Ignatz the Weasel!"
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Old July 8, 2011, 10:11 PM   #44
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The CIA operative in Pakistan that killed the three attackers used a Glock.

I have no doubt the CIA field operatives use what they can get locally or in by diplomatic pouch and none are marked "Property of the United States".

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Old July 8, 2011, 10:17 PM   #45
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Those who know don't say. Those who say don't know.... sorry but anyone claiming to "know" is full of it.
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Old July 9, 2011, 01:08 AM   #46
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Sorry for the sarcasm, but when I see people posting "facts" about
the CIA, or the NSA, or any other of the "discreet"-type agencies of our government, I tend to take it with a LARGE grain of salt.

Walter
And;

Quote:
The CIA and NSA are primarily intelligence collection and analysis organizations and have nothing to do with policing actions
I laugh every time I see something that suggests the NSA does anything remotely similar to the CIA with agents and such. NSA is nothing like CIA.

And for this second quote, what do you mean policing actions ?
Those agencies do exactly what they are supposed to do no matter where and no matter what is going on there at the time. If there is something going on that falls within their Intelligence gathering purview they are on it. Add the FBI to that list as well.

Had to add a third to the list.
Quote:
Those who know don't say. Those who say don't know.... sorry but anyone claiming to "know" is full of it.
Somewhat true but not completely. People can talk, if something isn't classified then it just isn't classified. Most make it a habit to be discreet and are not easily drawn into "business talk" because it's just better then being tempted to "talk around" a subject. But again, if it isn't classified or even remotely sesnsitive, the guys will talk.
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Old July 9, 2011, 01:26 AM   #47
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it was on the news that the CIA is hiring(about 6 months ago give or take, maybe more//many of you probably saw it). They were saying there is no requirement for a college education such as if you want to be a special agent with the FBI.

I don't know either, but I would guess that most CIA agents carry some form of piece or another. Of course there are probably more complacent CIA agents who don't carry because they don't feel the need. Now that would be some funny c*&p if there was an office policy for some of them saying they couldn't bring their trusty 38 to work w/them...
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Old July 9, 2011, 02:04 AM   #48
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the CIA isnt law enforcement, most agents are not in the field and are analyists, meaning they sit behind a desk. Theres probably not a required or standard firearm for field agents because that kind of thing is a dead give away that this person is a spook.
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CIA does indeed have armed federal agents on the payroll. i applied for a couple jobs with them a while back.

one was protection services, which is protecting high value CIA employees, and the other was security at their facility in langley.

it's called CIA "protective services".
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Old July 9, 2011, 02:18 AM   #49
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Custom, blued & suppressed NAA .22 short mini-revolvers
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Old July 9, 2011, 02:50 AM   #50
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Marketing bloviation. THERE ARE NO "HOMELAND SECURITY" AGENTS. Doesn't exist. There are a number of agencies that report to the Dept. of Homeland Security, including TSA, Border Patrol, ICE, Coast Guard, Secret Service.

These agencies don't all carry the same guns. Secret Service is Sig. ICE is Beretta 96 and HK USPc. Coast Guard is M9. Dunno about Border Patrol.
I bet Sig Sauer could make a decent chunk of change if it made a 'limited run' of special CIA pistols for 'exclusive customers'
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