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Old June 23, 2006, 08:58 PM   #1
aspen1964
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Shoot once or twice in defense..

...Some people tell me that you should shoot in pairs, not one at a time...if attacked...
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Old June 23, 2006, 09:01 PM   #2
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threat neutralized

I would think you shoot until the threat is neutralized. Shooting once vs twice would become rather academic if the threat is still attacking. But that's just me
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Old June 23, 2006, 09:03 PM   #3
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As many hits (not just shots) as it takes to make your attacker stop attacking you - in other words, it's his choice.
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Old June 23, 2006, 09:06 PM   #4
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I guess my curiosity is related to my other thread in that many people disdain any round that doesn't achieve their magical number of energy or velocity..but wouldn't it make better sense to shoot always in pairs rather than one at a time if stopping an attack? I.E. bang, bang..(quick evaluate)..repeat if necessary...
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Old June 23, 2006, 09:41 PM   #5
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2 in the chest, then one in the head if needed.
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Old June 23, 2006, 10:10 PM   #6
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As many as it takes to fold the threat and one on the way down for good measure.
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Old June 23, 2006, 10:17 PM   #7
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I practice double taps .
Don't know why, just seems more plausible to me

That is what you were asking right?

Even if you shoot until the threat is neutralized, do you do it with six single shots or three double taps?
That's how you meant it correct?
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Old June 23, 2006, 10:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
2 in the chest, then one in the head if needed.
Great saying, but very naive. If you have to transition from the chest because the chest shots are not creating a stop, then you don't want to just be shooting the head. You need a CNS impact causing incapacitation. In other words, the round needs to have traumatic impact on the brain, ideally devastating impact on the brain. Blowing out the jaw, pallate, teeth, sinuses, etc. is nice and will cause lots of pain, but certainly may not cause incapacitation.

Quote:
I.E. bang, bang..(quick evaluate)..repeat if necessary...
I never understood this either, but have heard it taught. What is this evaluation crap. You stop, evaluate, make a decision, and then fire if necessary. Why **** away critical time you could be impacting your enemy with force by stopping to admire your work and look to see if you need any final touches? When driving a car down the highway, do you have to stop, get out, and check to see if you are properly in your lane or not? No. You do it on the fly and adjust as necessary. There is no reason you should not be able to do that while shooting. Do you really want to give a person you are shooting the chance to mount a counterattack while you stock to see your handiwork?
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Old June 23, 2006, 10:22 PM   #9
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Well, where I'm from it's like this-----"BLAM---BLAM-BLAM---BLAM-BLAM-BLAM, CLICK----CLICK-CLICK-----STOMP-KICK-STOMP..."
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Old June 23, 2006, 10:29 PM   #10
aspen1964
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calm yourself DNS...evaluation is a word used to describe a quick impulse decision to fire again after shooting the first time..not standing there with your fist on your cheek thinking about it..
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Old June 23, 2006, 10:37 PM   #11
tony pasley
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double tap is good pratice but when in doubt empty then reload quickly.unless the threat is gone then reload quickly
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Old June 23, 2006, 11:57 PM   #12
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Never take your eyes off the target. You should be moving rapidly away and lateral to the threat as soon as you fire the first couple shots unless you are grappling with him.

so for me it is step/draw, yell "STOP" loudly, fire all in one motion. After that it is FIND COVER and assess the situation.
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Old June 24, 2006, 03:20 AM   #13
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The rule is to shoot and continue to shoot until the BG is no longer a threat! The 'double tap' was at one time the training method but that usually leaves you wondering what to do if nothing happens after the first two shots.
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Old June 24, 2006, 06:10 AM   #14
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double taps, aids in weapon control give a brief evaluation time.
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Old June 24, 2006, 06:50 AM   #15
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Double-nought,
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Old June 24, 2006, 07:04 AM   #16
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I am assuming that this question was posted for academic purposes only. We are discuss 'how many times' we would shoot someone. Folks, come on, we are talk about as it we are shooting at paper targets.

IT'S A HUMAN LIFE we are discussing here. How many of those that have posted a respond have been in that situation? what else was going though your mind at the time? was it really how many times I should pull the trigger? there are other moral, legal and religious considerations here.

I think a better question would have been, "how many practice the double tap verses a single shot", for when the time comes, I KNOW you won't be counting.
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Old June 24, 2006, 08:42 AM   #17
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Single or Double Tap?

Most police departments teach their officers to DOUBLE TAP into the chest.
If that does not stop the person's agressive action then tape the head.
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Old June 24, 2006, 09:05 AM   #18
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I remember when I was in orientation for a security company, an ex cop was leading the class. He asked, "How many times do you shoot an attacker? As many times as it takes to stop the threat."
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Old June 24, 2006, 09:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
I remember when I was in orientation for a security company, an ex cop was leading the class. He asked, "How many times do you shoot an attacker? As many times as it takes to stop the threat."
You win the teddy bear with that one.
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Old June 24, 2006, 09:34 AM   #20
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It's very easy to teach 2 to the chest, 1 to the head. But in reality, the head shot is going to be the worse shot to take. Think about it, it's hard enough to hit the chest COM as large as it is. I've seen many "Chest shots" that wound up hitting the abdomen, arms or legs. I have also seen "Headshots" were the round entered the face or scalp and traveled under the skin and produced no lethal effects. Try hitting a target thats 1/5 the size of the chest while it's moving around or bouncing up and down snd it's not as easy as it sounds. If you try the head shot and more than likely your going to have a round that misses and may hit something else that was unintended. Maybe if there are any SWAT officers out there that may have input into this. Taking a head shot with a sniping rifle with a scope is probably somewhat difficult.
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Old June 24, 2006, 11:00 AM   #21
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hsim, I respect your opinion, but I'll give you mine also . I feel most people on this forum understand we are talking human life. We do not go to the range to play around, and take practice seriously. We also must have a clear mindset of how we will respond to a life threatening situation. Discussing a single vs. double tap in practice or in mindset should be no different.
In addition, I do not feel that someone who is trying to take out myself or my family is a human being, they are a target.
(Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one).
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Old June 24, 2006, 11:20 AM   #22
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frankly, someone who is trying to kill me...or someone with me, isn't going to get a moment of moral debate in my mind...if a criminal doesn't want to get shot, then don't choose me as a potential victim to begin with...then my gun will always be cold and loaded instead of hot and empty in my pocket or drawer...self-preservation is a very practical action..
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Old June 24, 2006, 11:29 AM   #23
hsim
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Quote:
In addition, I do not feel that someone who is trying to take out myself or my family is a human being, they are a target.
yomama,

I agree, it just seems that sometimes we (the forum in general) discuss such matters a little too blasé.

I agree, if someone really needs shooting, you shot them, but do you really count how many times? or give reasons and explanation as to why you would shot them once, twice or three times? If placed in such a situation, would you not shot until the treat is neutralized? rather then, well I practice double taps, so that's what I'll do?

At 21 ft. BG coming at you with a knife, shot him once or twice or more? answer: run!
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Old June 24, 2006, 12:55 PM   #24
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Hsim

Quote:
At 21 ft. BG coming at you with a knife, shot him once or twice or more? answer: run!
Unfortunately, not all of us have the luxury of running. I have sustained an extremety injury that has permanently impacted my ability to run. For me, the BG at 21ft and a knife gets shot until he stops coming at me or those I am protecting.
As for the 2 in the chest 1 in the head doctrine (don't remember who said that one) I can consistently do that in IDPA style matches but those targets don't move or shoot back. I would probably still do that in the real world as that is the way I train.
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Old June 24, 2006, 01:40 PM   #25
aspen1964
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exactly.
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