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Old June 9, 2006, 09:55 AM   #1
FirearmFan
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Bear killed with .40 cal glock

Read this on a civilian defense blog site. Figured it was pretty interesting. Who new a .40 could stop a bear? Love to know what type of round he used.


From the Anchorage Daily News of June 2, 2006
Homeowner shoots bear inside house

A large black bear broke into an Anchorage home early this morning, rummaged around like a burglar and feasted on a box of chocolates before the homeowner shot him dead with a Glock.

The bear entered the two-story Stuckagain Heights house on the Anchorage hillside around 2:30 a.m., according to police.

Stan Knowlton, who lives next door to the house, said his son and daughter-in-law own the place that was ransacked. They were asleep in their bedroom with their Rottweiller, Baby, when the dog started barking wildly, he said.

The bedroom door was closed. Outside, the couple could hear things being knocked over.

Police spokesman Lt. Paul Honeman said the owners initially thought the bear was a burglar. They could not be reached for comment.

Knowlton said his son quickly determined the real identity of the intruder.

"He opens the (bedroom) door and he's face to face with this big black bear," he said. "He slammed the door right away."

Knowlton said his son hollered at the bear to go away and it ran downstairs. The man grabbed a .40-caliber Glock automatic handgun from another bedroom and looked around. The bear had knocked some things over and eaten a box of chocolates that had been sitting near the couch.

"It left all the heart candy sitting in a basket there," Knowlton said.

Knowlton said the bear started back up the stairs toward his son. He shot the animal multiple times and it went back downstairs.

Knowlton said his son didn't know if the bear was dead. He called police. Honeman said the sergeant who responded quipped that he'd been in many a hairy situation over the years, but few so scary as entering a house where there might be a wounded bear on the loose.

Officers found the bear dead in a bathroom, surrounded by a pool of blood and scat. Knowlton said state wildlife officials came and picked up the carcass. It took four people to load it into the truck, he said.
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Old June 9, 2006, 10:14 AM   #2
Harley Quinn
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Good article

I am glad it worked out for the family, pretty scary.

Only thing I noticed wrong was the statement about it being an automatic Glock. Typical misprint with newpaper people.

So much for the 40 Glock not doing its job.

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Old June 9, 2006, 10:24 AM   #3
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Don't come between that guy and his chocolates
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Old June 9, 2006, 01:15 PM   #4
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It would be interesting to know what ammo the guy was using and how many shots it took. I know bear skulls are extremly thick so i doubt it was a head shot.
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Old June 9, 2006, 02:40 PM   #5
Fremmer
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Someone has to say it:

If that guy had used a .45 ACP, it would've only taken one or two shots.

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Old June 9, 2006, 02:52 PM   #6
azredhawk44
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Quote:
Knowlton said the bear started back up the stairs toward his son. He shot the animal multiple times and it went back downstairs.

...the sergeant who responded quipped that he'd been in many a hairy situation over the years, but few so scary as entering a house where there might be a wounded bear on the loose.

Officers found the bear dead in a bathroom, surrounded by a pool of blood and scat. Knowlton said state wildlife officials came and picked up the carcass. It took four people to load it into the truck, he said.
1. Multiple shots
2. It went back downstairs
3. Didn't know it was dead
4. Had time to go in the bathroom to die

Sounds like the glock was about as effective as a knife. The bear didn't die from the gunshots, it died from blood loss.

If it had charged him instead of retreating, he'd be dead.

The glock didn't stop the bear.

Edited to add: I own a glock. But I also know its limitations.
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Old June 9, 2006, 02:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
The man grabbed a .40-caliber Glock automatic handgun from another bedroom and looked around.
I bet he keeps his a firearm in his actual bedroom from now on... instead of the spare bedroom.
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Old June 9, 2006, 03:07 PM   #8
JoshB
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Quote:
Someone has to say it:

If that guy had used a .45 ACP, it would've only taken one or two shots.
Good point. Even so, I'm not exactly sure I would go w/ the 45 either. I think if I had time, I would go back to the bedroom and get the AK!

As much as I don't like Glocks, a 40 from any kind of pistol would have had the same effects.
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Old June 9, 2006, 03:55 PM   #9
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An update from another poster at Glocktalk

Hey man, the Daily News fish wrapper got the facts a bit screwy... feel free to pass this on to folks who "get it".

Here's the actual factual from the one and only witness (me):
Concerning the incident of "bear shot in house June 2, 2006" in Anchorage, AK

Fact 1: I fired 10 rounds at the bear, 9 hit him, 4 where fatal wounds, the others where periphiel wounds

Fact 2: It was 2:30am and VERY DARK. I used a Surefire 6P flashlight to illuminate him in my hallway (held in my left hand at same level as my gun which was in my right hand at eye level, half point shooting, half front site aiming). Try to do better in these conditions with a bear at 4-7 feet away in your house. NINE rounds hit him!

Fact 3: He ate our "hard" candy (not "heart"??? as the person at ADN stated), we ate the chocolate - give us some credit!

Fact 4: Obviously .40 caliber 180 grn COR-BON hollowpoints at 1300 fps ARE enough to take down a bear right now! A lot of folks are saying "He got lucky" or "he should have used a bigger gun" or worst of all " he should have tried to scare it away with a warning shot"
Skill beats luck every time - I trained with local IDPA in Palmer and learned skills that saved my wife and myself from being mauled in our own bedroom!
I used the gun I had at hand - when do you carry a 12 gauge around your home in fear of bears INSIDE the house? (okay, I do --- now - just kidding, I like my Glock.)
Any moron trying to scare a bear away INSIDE their house at 4 to 7 feet is going to be one round down when the surprised bruin charges them. If they live, they better hope they didn't put the "warning shot" into something serious like a neighbor or a gas line in the house or the breaker box! KNOW YOUR TARGET!!!
Fact 5: I knew my target - I ID'd him with my surefire, instantly determined the CLOSE THREAT and fired to the cessation of hostilities - as per training!

Fact 6: Some reports are saying that I stood there with an empty gun... BULL! I ran to my upstairs office (the bear was downstairs with my gun safe) and looked for my spare mags - try finding yours in the dark in a rush of adrenaline and knowing you have a wounded BEAR IN YOUR DARK HOUSE. I keep several loaded magazines upstairs for different guns in my collection - JUST IN CASE (turned out that JUST IN CASE HAPPENED). I had forgotten that I had a Romanian AK47 in my office and several mags (I had been working on it). I grabbed it and a 30 round mag and then the phone. I quickly returned to the stairwell with a condition one AK47 and surefire light covering the stairwell. After that (contain and control the situation) I dialed 9-1-1 and reported my situation. Once the officers were on site we worked together to ensure everyones safety. They were cool - and scared. I don't blame them.

Fact 7: The bear was one foot away when I first saw him. He was approaching me from 4 to 7 feet away when fired on him.

Fact 8: We did not think there was a burglar in the house, rather I was sure that our cat was on the counter knocking things over. I'll never doubt my dog again!

Fact 9: It is fortunate that I used a .40 cal handgun with hollowpoints as opposed to a rifle or shotgun with slugs (my Benelli M1 is loaded normally with 3" slugs). Overpenetration would have been a serious problem. As it is, one of the ten rounds missed the bear or bounced off of him and penetrated my wall, ricocheted of a paving stone outside the home and put a skin deep hole in the door of my car! What would all those BIG guns have done? They all would have overpenetrated at that range!

Fact 10: We don't keep garbage around or cook outside our house. We go to Anchorage Refuse every Saturday. Our neighbors seem to think it's okay to put their garbage out on the curb for pick up and no wild animals will be tempted... I've watched black bears take the garbage right of my neighbors garbage can not more than an hour after it was set out! Odd practice, dumb at best.

Fact 11: It was claimed that the bear made entrance due to a faulty door latch. NOT! That door has been tested before - I saw a bear paw print on it two years ago about 5 feet up! This bear defeated the exterior door (swings inward) and an interior door (swings torward the bear) which were both latched securely.

Fact 12: The bear was aggressive. He was salivating heavily, leaving a saliva trail all over in front of our bedroom door - which is where I first encountered him. A salivating bear is a sign of agitation. NOT GOOD! I yelled at him and banged on the door after hitting his eyes with my surefire, he retreated only temporarily. Then he came back.

Fact 13: I didn't decline an interview with Anchorage Daily News, I had to work from 9am to 9pm. I have a real job and life goes on. Although, I wish I had talked to them - they got it about 50% wrong.

Lessons learned:
Keep a gun of at least .40 caliber or better in the room that you occupy. At all times - you don't know when you'll need it.
Listen to your dog and investigate: If we hadn't, the bear might have come into the bedroom!
Never say never!
TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN! Join the IDPA and TRAIN!
READ when you are not training - the proper mindset IS critical! I did not hesitate, because I had decided on this years ago - in training.
Keep spare mags in the same place as your firearm unless you have a kid issue... I don't. I got lazy and couldn't find my spare mags quickly!
USE REAL BULLETS for self defense - not target loads. I'm sure COR-BON had alot to do with the outcome.
Join the NRA - so we can keep our guns! (already a member - shame on those who aren't within the week)
You don't need to worry about hearing - your adrenaline shuts it off for you. Don't worry too much about recoil - I fired 10 .40 cals in 2-3 seconds and had NINE HITS. DO WORRY ABOUT YOUR BACKSTOP AND OVERPENETRATION!
Keep a phone nearby and know what to say. I learned all the right things to do and say in my CCW class from Wayne A. Ross.
There will be a million armchair quarterbacks who will criticize your decisions and actions. You were there, you did it right and it worked - forget them. They know NOTHING until they have danced the dance. There is always room for improvement, hence, I'm going back to the IDPA and training more!


From my buddy brian, the actual shooter in the event.


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Last edited by AK_Stick on 06-09-2006 at 08:26 PM
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Old June 9, 2006, 04:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
.40 caliber 180 grn COR-BON hollowpoints at 1300 fps
Sounds like a 10mm, not .40S&W.
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Old June 9, 2006, 04:28 PM   #11
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Ditto on the 10mm.

.40 is very dangerous to load with 180grainers. Pressure spikes rapidly inside that tiny case. 10mm give more volume.

Velocity is right there with a 10mm/400corbon load.
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Old June 9, 2006, 05:37 PM   #12
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Mr Bear


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Old June 9, 2006, 05:57 PM   #13
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Would it be more effective if the hollow point was filled with chocolate ??
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Old June 9, 2006, 06:18 PM   #14
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I had a buddy that woke up to a black bear in his house. He just climbed out the window opened up the back door, climbed back into the house, and screamed at the bear to get out of the house. It worked.

I have a feeling stories like this are wasted on this forum though.

Last edited by wacki; June 9, 2006 at 09:05 PM.
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Old June 9, 2006, 06:38 PM   #15
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Checked cor-bon's site. The only 180 grainers they have is a 10mm hunting round that moves at 1320 fps. Max load on a .40 is 165 and that is 1150 fps.
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Old June 9, 2006, 09:27 PM   #16
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"The bear didn't die from the gunshots, it died from blood loss."

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Old June 9, 2006, 10:26 PM   #17
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I'm happy to hear that the person in question was able to defend himself against the Bear with a .40 handgun round. Any gun/caliber is better than no gun/caliber. However, any large Black or Grizzly Bear that decides to aggressively attack a human will charge at 30mph right through a hail of .40 bullets and maul the human to death. In bear country I carry a .44Mag with 300gr. flat nosed bullets in case I can't bring my .30'06 to bear. At home I don't have to worry about bears in the home, but my set-up for defense against BG's would be sufficient against bears as well: a handgun on the nightstand for quick deployment against fast and/or dynamic invasions, and a 12 ga Shotgun loaded with 7 #1Buck shells in the pipe next to my bed (chamber empty and -1 in the pipe so I can load a slug from my side saddle if needed) to engage BG's. As a wise trainer once told me: your handgun should only be used to fight your way to your rifle/SG. I like to have both at hand when in bed.
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Old June 9, 2006, 10:26 PM   #18
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gremlins

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Old June 10, 2006, 03:19 PM   #19
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This thread was great reading. Thank you!
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Old June 10, 2006, 04:11 PM   #20
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Pretty scary. Good job keeping your head, and protecting your family. It seems like you have trained to deal with various animals entering your house. 2 and 4 legged.
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Old June 10, 2006, 11:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
.40 is very dangerous to load with 180grainers.
And yet many companies make and sell it.

Quote:
Sounds like the glock was about as effective as a knife. The bear didn't die from the gunshots, it died from blood loss.
Let's see, if it isn't CNS damage, then you generally die of cardio or pulmonary damages, or both. You could die from sepsis days later, but we are talking relatively fast.

Just where did the blood loss come from? Tissue damage from gunshots. That is what gunshots do, damage tissue when the target is hit properly.

Quote:
Fact 1: I fired 10 rounds at the bear, 9 hit him, 4 where fatal wounds, the others where periphiel wounds

Fact 2: It was 2:30am and VERY DARK. I used a Surefire 6P flashlight to illuminate him in my hallway (held in my left hand at same level as my gun which was in my right hand at eye level, half point shooting, half front site aiming). Try to do better in these conditions with a bear at 4-7 feet away in your house. NINE rounds hit him!
Bear, 4-7 feet distant, trapped in a fatal funnel and illuminated with a Surefire. 9 out of 10 shots are good, but the bear's options were limited in his ability to move and bears aren't small. As a well trained IDPA person, that sounds nominal.

It is never dark in your own hallway when you have a Surefire light.

4 shots were fatal? That is a pretty quick autopsy. They were not immediately fatal. Were they each fatal, or combined?

Quote:
Fact 4: Obviously .40 caliber 180 grn COR-BON hollowpoints at 1300 fps ARE enough to take down a bear right now!
Fact, he didn't go down, 'right now!'

Quote:
KNOW YOUR TARGET!!!
It was a bear. Who would you confuse it for, Uncle Jim with the overly hairy back who likes to prowl around on all fours at night?

Quote:
Fact 9: It is fortunate that I used a .40 cal handgun with hollowpoints as opposed to a rifle or shotgun with slugs (my Benelli M1 is loaded normally with 3" slugs). Overpenetration would have been a serious problem. As it is, one of the ten rounds missed the bear or bounced off of him and penetrated my wall, ricocheted of a paving stone outside the home and put a skin deep hole in the door of my car! What would all those BIG guns have done? They all would have overpenetrated at that range!
Now which fact is it? Do slugs at 4-7 feet overpenetrate or bounce of bears. I can never keep that 'fact' straight.

Quote:
Fact 12: The bear was aggressive. He was salivating heavily, leaving a saliva trail all over in front of our bedroom door - which is where I first encountered him. A salivating bear is a sign of agitation. NOT GOOD! I yelled at him and banged on the door after hitting his eyes with my surefire, he retreated only temporarily. Then he came back.
A salivating bear is NOT NECESSARILY a sign of agitation. Brian is apparently making a sweeping generalization due to the stress of the encounter where he was apparently just as 'agitated' and couldn't recall his AK47 with mags that was close by originally or the location of his spare Glock mags, which he forgot to take with him when investigating his believed cat disturbing the house. Since the bear was salivating excessively BEFORE the encounter started, more likely he was tense, stressed, distressed, or otherwise not in his happy place. As such, the salivation is not an indicator of being necessarily aggressive. Being in some other animal's cave and then hearing unseen dogs barking would be very stressful, no doubt.

Fact 13: I didn't decline an interview with Anchorage Daily News, I had to work from 9am to 9pm. I have a real job and life goes on. Although, I wish I had talked to them - they got it about 50% wrong.

Quote:
There will be a million armchair quarterbacks who will criticize your decisions and actions. You were there, you did it right and it worked - forget them.
No, just questioning the 'facts.'

I am still amazed that he learned from his bear encounter that he needed to be in the NRA. That is amazing.
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Old June 11, 2006, 09:51 AM   #22
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I wonder how many rounds?

WHen I first read this my first thought was some stupid twit went hunting bear with a Glock40.
Haveing been to Alaska and seeing first hand how hard it can be to kill a black bear with a 30-30 the guy with the glock is lucky he only lost his chocolates.
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Old June 12, 2006, 02:45 AM   #23
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Last year a guy up there killed one with a 9mm,if I recall it was all rounds to the chest and dropped it at like in the face range.
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Old June 12, 2006, 06:16 AM   #24
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very interesting story there. I agree with if the bear had charged him it might have a different ending instead of the slow death from gunshot. Very fortunate for him and his family, but at least he put 9 rounds of something in it that thing, im sure it didnt feel too good. My lesson here, if a bear breaks into my house, grab my 8" .454 with 300grain 1650fps hp's
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Old June 12, 2006, 11:20 AM   #25
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Quote:
It would be interesting to know what ammo the guy was using and how many shots it took.
I'd be willing to bet he emptied the mag.
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