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Old June 7, 2006, 02:26 AM   #1
RsqVet
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Rural carry --- defensive posture up or down????

OK folks I am almost a little embarrassed to post this as I’m not overly found of the what gun should I carry type posts, but anyway here goes.

The recent post and link over in “The Hunt” on meth wars in rural America got me to re-evaluation my carry choices when I’m out of state (states that also recognize my CCW) in rural areas for business / pleasure. For anyone interested I’d suggest viewing this thread as it’s a real eye opener. It’s something I was aware of and have seen in our own community but did not realize the extent it was present out in the more remote areas.

Anyway the point is, what are your real world observations out there? I know this is subjective and some folks might want to strap 2 guns on just to come to the city I live in and walk their dog however I would still value your opinions and thoughts on this subject.

Simply put my question is given a range (any range of options in terms of carry pieces) of carry pieces that you have do you go up or go down or no change in terms of capacity (i.e. caliber / rounds / etc. and etc.) when you go bumping out to the country. Previously I would always go at the lighter end of what I consider my spectrum because of less percieved risk. I am re-evalauting that currently.

Again this is not a question about specific hardware, and I have deleated the mention of hardware that was previously here to focus the question more. It's not about what I'm comfortable with as I have many guns I can shoot and conceal well. The only advange to my previous practice was having a smaller / more compact weapon.

Edited for clarity

Last edited by RsqVet; June 7, 2006 at 11:30 PM.
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Old June 7, 2006, 06:01 AM   #2
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Makes sense to me to just carry what you are comfortable with, have practised with, and are familiar with.
I used to carry just a .22 revolver on hikes, but I have gone to carrying one of my CCW guns now.
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Old June 7, 2006, 10:20 AM   #3
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You didn't say what 357 you carry but it's got to be a great round for anything you should run into. I've got a Colt trooper 357 and I just carry the 38 lrn's in it if out in the woods but as you say with the meth plague spreading I may have to go to some of the Corbon 357 ammo for better results in case I come upon a meth lab at the deer lease.
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Old June 7, 2006, 10:46 AM   #4
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I think a .357 is just fine. A rifle or shotgun in your vehicle is a good idea too. I normally always carry a camera and pistol when in the woods and a lever action out of sight in the PU.
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Old June 7, 2006, 12:49 PM   #5
RsqVet
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The question in my mind is less about the weapon per se (maybe I should have left the hardware disscussion out of my inital post), and more about what folks out there think, and are seeing in rural america. More of a reality check than anything else.

I'm no fool and know bad to very bad things happen everywhere however still the question in my mind is do folks out there stay at a the same threat level, dress down, or dress up depending on the enviorment. I know this is subjective and influanced a lot by the media but I still would really welcome your views.

Edited for clarity

Last edited by RsqVet; June 7, 2006 at 11:31 PM.
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Old June 7, 2006, 12:52 PM   #6
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Most people you would see out in the "wild", unless they are cooking, are inteligent enough to know that packing a gun isnt a crime and many will tell you its a good idea. I work at a water treatment plant and if i have to go out and change a valve or reset a pump, i always carry something with me, just in case.

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Old June 7, 2006, 10:24 PM   #7
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RsqVet, . . . as I read where you wrote: "The recent post and link over in “The Hunt” on meth wars in rural America got me to re-evaluation my carry choices", . . . and I couldn't help but reflect on my changes.

Since I got my CCW, . . . I don't go into establishments where alcohol is dispensed, . . . I stay out of court houses, . . . I look hard for the "no guns in here" signs, . . . and I do my best to avoid all businesses, public bldgs, offices, and anywhere else I cannot carry.

Meth wars or no meth wars, . . . the place ain't as safe as it once was, . . . so I take my own safety into my own hands.

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Old June 7, 2006, 10:45 PM   #8
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Luckily, I live in Arizona where open carry is legal. When going hunting, I carry a S&W .44 Mag in an open holster; nobody has ever blinked, though I've been asked to leave a few establishments. I also have carried my Glock 17 open in both rural and urban outings. However, I prefer concealed carry when venturing in populated centers. I also have a CCW permit so when I go into the city I can carry my Glock 26 in a paddle holster. I finally settled on the Kramer paddle holster because I have to visit the courts often, and it makes it easy to take off and lock in my glove box. When it gets too hot here to wear a jacket or covering garment, I'm reduced to leaving the G26 in the car, and carry a Kel Tec .380 (which has surprised me in terms of recoil and accuracy at short ranges). In fact, though I prefer the G26 overall, the Kel Tec is the handgun I carry most of the time because it fits in a comfortable pocket holster that I don't even notice is there. To ramble a bit more, in a perfect world it's best to choose one primary handgun and make it your only carry gun (besides your back-up if you so choose). Your ability to use it accurately and effectively under stress will be much better if you've spent lots of range and training time with it, rather than switching between several carry guns.
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Old June 7, 2006, 11:37 PM   #9
RsqVet
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Not worried about scaring sheepel, however something can be said for the lower key look / appearance of some guns vs. otheres if a freind / hotel maid / waitress / LEO should happen to see them or come in contact. Not that it should matter but heck we all know in life there are a heck of a lot of things where looks should not matter but somehow still do.

I'm legal for concealed carry anywhere I will be within their states's rules so that is not a problem either. Personally unless it's a comfort / convienance thing I'm always conceled as I prefer the tactical advantage offered.
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Old June 8, 2006, 06:11 AM   #10
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I think the only real aswer has to be

The same thing you would carry the rest of the time. The reality is or in my opinion should be, that if you really think you are at risk then you don't go there or at least carry the best and most....

So, backing up and assuming you carry just in case... a bad thing happens... you carry what you are comfortable with and can use the best and pray it stays holstered.
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Old June 8, 2006, 07:39 AM   #11
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Stick with what you use on a day to day basis.
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Old June 8, 2006, 07:55 AM   #12
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Actually you should carry something and stick with it. I can understand switching to something lighter or smaller because of a need of deep concealment, but don't assume that you need to carry lighter because your going someplace safer. You know what can happen anywhere. The problem with rural areas compared to urban areas, is that there are less witnesses and response time from 911 will be a lot longer. Actually I would be armed to the teeth if I lived in a rural area with no neighbors for miles around.
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Old June 8, 2006, 10:57 AM   #13
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Have you considered moving into the city where it's safer?
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Old June 8, 2006, 12:23 PM   #14
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I live in rural western Oregon - about 25 miles west of Portland. In the last two years we have had a major marijuana bust and fire (their barn burned down) and a major takedown of a math lab in our general area - within 2 miles of my farm/home. The "creatures" that run these operations run wild in our woods and are not to be taken lightly. If you inadvertently stumble on one of their "project areas" you could be in serious difficulty. So, when I traipse the bucolic countryside here I carry a 44 magnum S&W Trail Boss in case I run into a real "squirrel"! Sad but true.
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Old June 8, 2006, 12:50 PM   #15
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Carry what ever you want. Any BG wouldn't expect you to be armed anyway.
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Old June 8, 2006, 01:03 PM   #16
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Last week right around sundown, we heard tires squealing on the rural highway in front of my home, and then saw flashing lights. Looked out the window and there was a felony stop in progress -- an obviously scheduled felony stop, as another set of deputies had blocked off traffic in the opposite direction about 1/4 mile up the road (as far that direction as we could see), some time before the stop began.

Sent the kids to lie down in the back of the house until the scary part was over, but let them watch out the window during the "search-the-vehicle" phase. Drug bust, of course. Probably the same folks who've been running drugs out of a house down the street from the grade school.

So yeah, bad guys can be found everywhere.

Personally, I carry the same gun everywhere I go. I don't put it on or take it off based on my perceived risk on that day or at that location: if I think somewhere is particularly dangerous, I simply don't go there, or if I do go, I reduce the risk by going during the day rather than at night, or by going with a friend instead of by myself.

Carrying is insurance against very low probability events. It isn't as though there's a violent meth head on every corner, nor as if I daily encounter kidnappers, rapists, or murderers. Encountering violence is not the norm, no matter what the newspaper says.

But I'm not carrying my gun as a talisman. It's not insurance that bad stuff won't happen. I don't carry it as a magic potion to keep bad stuff away from me. I carry it as a weapon. If I ever need to use it, I will need it to function as a serious tool which must be able to stop a determined attack.

I don't expect country humans to be physically easier (or harder) to stop than their city counterparts. So I carry enough gun to stop a determined human, everywhere I go.

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Old June 8, 2006, 05:32 PM   #17
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I just got back from my honeymoon in the smokey moutains. I thought about this very question, meth heads and bears. I took my GP100 4" loaded with 180gr cast performance WFNGC bullets and 12.9gr of W296 with a win mag primer. It recoiled more than my usual 140gr reloads but after firing a few combat drills I found it very useable. I figure that gun and load would at least get the undivided attention of and meth head or bear I might need to fire it at.
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Old June 9, 2006, 11:26 PM   #18
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Meth labs and pot farms are a reality in the bush here in Northern Cal. If you stumble upon one, I think your best bet is to turn around and leave as quickly as possible.

Be aware that the area might be booby-trapped.

These people are serious, and you will probably be out numbered and out gunned.

The smell often gives them away. You can smell the chemicals they use and you can smell the pot too.

Every time I have run across a farm, I have been out shooting with friends, so we were fairly seriously armed. We still left.
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Old June 10, 2006, 08:34 PM   #19
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I live in MO and we are a leading state in the production of Meth. I live in a very rural community. As much as I know after 12 years, we have wonderful neighbors with good community oriented kids. I live 6 miles from town. I have 80 acres and that is where I get my outdoor acitivity. I am lucky and I know it, but what the heck, I earned it. My wife and I would not live anywhere else. That being said, I always carry. She has one available but does not carry full time. We have no kids but do have grandkids and others with kids visit. The house guns, which are kept loaded and available when the kids are not here, get locked up then. We have five dogs, all big, one outside and four inside. They put on a formidable show when a stranger drives up. Three are sweethearts, but I wouldn't cross the femail yellow lab if you are a stranger and get in between my wife and her. I carry both open and concealed on the farm and in town. I eat, but don't drink at a local tavern. The owner has given me consent to carry in his place which is required by MO law. I always carry concealed when I do that. I won't go anywhere my gun is not welcomed. We have one bank that bans carry, there are only two so we kind of have to do business with them. My wife does that banking. This is a rural area and guns for the most part are no big deal. Several merchants joke with me about guns and what I am carrying that day. It is important to use your situational awareness everywhere. Especially when you are unfamiliar with an area.
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Old June 11, 2006, 07:08 AM   #20
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There's probably a balance in all this..

Interesting because that's how I got "into" carrying... I spend a lot of time in the woods and a good friend suggested I should be ready to deal with BC (bad critters). Odds are not that they'll be bears, more likely a coyote, rabid racoon... Since I'm often accompanied, some discretion seemed in order... so I've sorta progressed and have an application in the works for my concealed carry... I'm far from an expert, but am a bit of a knowledge junkie so I find myself putting a lot of thought into the topic.

I live in a very rural area where folks rarely lock doors and your arm gets tired waving as you drive down gravel roads. But we do occasionally see the local sheriff's photo on the front page of the weekly paper surrounded by the marijuana plants he's found... so we know there are some BG out there with the BC.

So I'm still trying to balance "convenience" with "risk." My original thoughts were a 357... but I ended up with a 9mm because of price and ease of carry (weight). I'm already thinking of it as my "first" gun, because I'm quite certain something else is in my future. One thing I love about this area is the fact that if you are "in town" chances are most of your neighbors are also armed and somebody's probably got a bigger gun if needed!

I agree with the logic already stressed that one should carry consistently.

I also think that it's not so much a discussion of greater danger as it is different danger. That's why ultimately the mind is the greatest weapon.

BTW, some years ago I left a high crime area of a major city (we found bodies in the company parking lot) and went out to the safe suburbs, stopping for a drink at an upscale hotel. I was robbed at gunpoint in the parking lot. I've occasionally thought that I was robbed simply because I assumed I was safe.

The BG and the BC are where you find them. Another false generality might be that out here in the sticks they aren't generally looking for you... they're hiding.
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Old June 11, 2006, 08:38 PM   #21
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"Have you considered moving into the city where it's safer?", politely asked Blue Train.

My question would then be, . . . what city is that? Sure ain't any I have been in during my 61 years here.

Rural living may have some disadvantages, . . . but there are a whole bunch fewer rapes, robberies, muggings, killings, car-jackings, or general thuggery than the cities, . . . at least IMO, . . . and if I am wrong, . . . please don't tell me, . . . I really do like this delusion, . . . if it is one.

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Old June 11, 2006, 09:19 PM   #22
tony pasley
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i carry the same thing city or country in western north carolina there is all kinds of dangers in the woods, cash croppers, labs, and animals, like bears,snakes,wild dogs, ect.
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Old June 12, 2006, 06:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
The question in my mind is less about the weapon per se (maybe I should have left the hardware disscussion out of my inital post), and more about what folks out there think, and are seeing in rural america. More of a reality check than anything else.

I'm no fool and know bad to very bad things happen everywhere however still the question in my mind is do folks out there stay at a the same threat level, dress down, or dress up depending on the enviorment. I know this is subjective and influanced a lot by the media but I still would really welcome your views.
OK, I'm not going to get offended by the question as I really think you don't know, and have been watching and reading WAY too much main stream media. As one who lives in a rural area, and works in both rural and urban areas, you'll find folks much more accommodating in rural areas. Example: I'm working in a rural area in Northern Michigan, and myself and 6 customer employees compared carry weapons, and even went shooting after work a few times. Gun ownership and carrying is much more of a normal issue in the country.

As far as the meth thing, let give you some background. I grew up on a 900 acre farm, and I am a refrigeration service tech that specializes in ammonia systems. Putting it simply, I work on and around it every day. Most these guys are a bunch of yeahoos who cook this stuff up in there houses. Unless your in the habit of walking into houses without knocking, it isn't a problem. Plain and simple. Dressing up or down???? A 2 bit hick in a $1,000 suit, or a city slicker in overalls have one thing in common, they won't fool anyone. People are people. Act honestly and friendly wherever you go, and things are much easier.
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Old June 12, 2006, 09:52 PM   #24
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Pax wrote:

Last week right around sundown, we heard tires squealing on the rural highway in front of my home, and then saw flashing lights. Looked out the window and there was a felony stop in progress -- an obviously scheduled felony stop, as another set of deputies had blocked off traffic in the opposite direction about 1/4 mile up the road (as far that direction as we could see), some time before the stop began.

Sent the kids to lie down in the back of the house until the scary part was over, but let them watch out the window during the "search-the-vehicle" phase. Drug bust, of course. Probably the same folks who've been running drugs out of a house down the street from the grade school.

So yeah, bad guys can be found everywhere.

Personally, I carry the same gun everywhere I go. I don't put it on or take it off based on my perceived risk on that day or at that location: if I think somewhere is particularly dangerous, I simply don't go there, or if I do go, I reduce the risk by going during the day rather than at night, or by going with a friend instead of by myself.

Carrying is insurance against very low probability events. It isn't as though there's a violent meth head on every corner, nor as if I daily encounter kidnappers, rapists, or murderers. Encountering violence is not the norm, no matter what the newspaper says.

But I'm not carrying my gun as a talisman. It's not insurance that bad stuff won't happen. I don't carry it as a magic potion to keep bad stuff away from me. I carry it as a weapon. If I ever need to use it, I will need it to function as a serious tool which must be able to stop a determined attack.

I don't expect country humans to be physically easier (or harder) to stop than their city counterparts. So I carry enough gun to stop a determined human, everywhere I go.

pax


WELL SAID!
While I am new here, I have been carrying a gun for a living for a very long time. This kind of down to earth, common sense line of thinking is a refreshing change from the usually bold talk I read on sites.

nicely done
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Old June 12, 2006, 11:23 PM   #25
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I think the risk of an encounter with someone intent on doing you harm is far greater in the city, and especially in inner city areas. Meth is not the only problem in our society. In rural areas, you find houses that have cooked meth traditionally in more remote areas where the chance of being caught is less. This does not mean if you happen to knock on their door because you broke down that you will have a problem. It just does not work that way. You are far more likely to have a problem in a high crime inner city area.

Pot is another matter and if you encounter a big growing operation you could be trouble. Just back out as quickly as possible and be very alert to the presence of other people.

With regard to firearms, I carry different guns for walks in the woods from other times. I grab whatever feels right for that day; sometimes its a Glock 23 or 22 auto, other times I carry a 357, or 41 mag revolver. Sometimes I carry along a 22 rifle as well as a handgun. The rifle is taken along to shoot usually and not for defense. You usually would not be dealing with 100 yd shots in a self defense situation anyway. If you are, you're probably in trouble because they have rifles. RUN!

For normal day to day stuff, I would be most likely to have along my usual carry type revolver and I feel perfectly comfortable with it.

I feel a lot safer in the country. More people are likely to have firearms and most understand how they are used. There is more respect for the individual in the country as opposed to what someone has or does not have in an urban environment. People in the country expect you to be armed in many situations. It's normal and it pre-dates any carry laws that may have been enacted in the last 5 years.

Don't make too big a deal about meth in rural areas from a self defense standpoint unless you are spending time at the lab sites. Meth users (or cookers) are generally not wealthy. Most are fairly regular people who just happen to have a problem. The same people (types) who would make you uneasy in the city are the same in the country. If someone makes you nervous, get out of there.
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