The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 31, 2006, 02:11 AM   #1
Doggieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2006
Location: San Diego, Calif.
Posts: 717
cops killed in store video

Did a search here, haven't seen this posted. Disturbing surveillance vid of cops being shot in a store.

They totally dropped their situational awareness.

http://www.jumpingpixels.com/sheriff.html
Doggieman is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 04:05 AM   #2
ahead
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2006
Location: Socal
Posts: 3
wow, why would they let that guy get so close to them without drawing their weapons. even if he wasnt armed, youd question his motive when he steps that close. i hate watching videos like this one, knowing that those people most likely had familys.
ahead is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 07:24 AM   #3
marlboroman84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2006
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 541
I hate that this happened and I hope that if those guys got caught the cops that found them just shot them and killed them the same way they killed their brothers in arms, but they really let down their guard. There is no excuse for them to be that easygoing responding to that type of situation and leave that one guy totally alone. Sad what an error in judgement can really cost you.
__________________
Ban Liberals, not guns!
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE (mo-lone lah-veh)
marlboroman84 is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 07:57 AM   #4
bermo61
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2006
Posts: 79
sad but there is a lesson here

the first cop was frisking the guy at the right of the screen. The second cop was supposed to be vigilant for additional threats. Unfortunately he mistakenly wrote the second guy off as a potential threat which is what allowed him to get the drop on them. Since the second guy was obviously saying something while his buddy was being frisked, the second cop should have realized there was a possible threat there and been more aware. At the very least his hand should have been on his weapon. Also when he saw the gun he just froze...at the range he was at he should have gone for the gun as soon as he saw it.

A few more lessons can be learned here:

1. A typical technique of criminals is to have one person distract you while the second gets the drop on you. Be aware of all potential threats.

2. Anyone can potentially have a gun.

3. There is a reason why cops have you put your hands on the patrol car when frisking...the first cop did not do that. As such the second cop put his attention in the wrong place because the first guy was still a threat.

4. A mistake many people make including cops is that their firearms training does not include drawing from the holster. Things happen fast as we saw in the video and a gun in a holster does not save anyones life except the felons. Being able to shoot once the gun is out of the holster is only one part of what can ultimately save your life.

5. Hand to hand techniques would have overcome the other mistakes made in the video. Personal security is a layered approach not putting al your eggs in one basket.

Sadly this happened but the analysis of this video may save other lives.
bermo61 is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 08:29 AM   #5
Mike T
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2005
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 31
Any idea where this was?
Mike T is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 08:58 AM   #6
Pointer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,559
Quote:
wow, why would they let that guy get so close to them without drawing their weapons. even if he wasnt armed, youd question his motive when he steps that close. i hate watching videos like this one, knowing that those people most likely had familys.
I hate watching videos like this one...
Because if it can happen to the professionals...
It can happen to anyone who carries...

But, then again, people who carry are probably more wary than this...

These LEO's forgot they had families!!
__________________
.
"Political correctness is tyranny with a happy face." Charlton Heston

30-06 FOREVER
Pointer is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 09:43 AM   #7
threegun
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2006
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,000
Aside from the obvious mistake in lowering his guard to the "customer" the officer serving as backup also made the mistake in retreating. As most of you know I am a big proponent of retreating while drawing and firing as I move to cover. In this case and most cases that are at contact distances, with the bad guy already pointing the gun at you, it is suicidal to retreat. When faced with this situation your odds of survival are better if you charge and get control of the weapon. A friend of mine ran sims drills and those who retreated had a 100 percent get hit ratio. Those who charged suffered only 60 percents with many of the hits in non life threatening areas.

If you fear this kind of situation get yourself some hand to hand, disarm, and grappling training. Here at my work we practice (far to rarely sadly) what we call going "psycho". It is nothing more than charging your attacker and fighting for the gun. The psycho name was born because A. charging a man with a gun pointed at you is crazy. B. Once we get on the bad guy we bite, head butt, gouge eyes, pinch testicles, scream, and just about anything else you can think of to win. Everything in our practice is run very slowly with only simulated contact so as not to injure your partner. It doesn't give you 100 percent reality but it does teach you to take what the bad guy gives while focusing on keeping his gun under control.
threegun is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 12:20 PM   #8
jcoiii
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2002
Location: TN
Posts: 556
Threegun, exactly what i was thinking. He was not in the direct path of the muzzle while he was trying to grab the gun. It was only when he backed away that the gun was pointed at him.

Still terrible and glad the punks joined the officers later.
__________________
Truth knows no political correctness.

I do not aim with my hand.......
jcoiii is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 12:38 PM   #9
Harley Quinn
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2005
Location: State of KALI
Posts: 1,531
Joiii

Explain your post please. How do you know they caught them?

Looks like it was security not cops.

HQ
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 01:28 PM   #10
NBT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 134
This guy must've spent some time in the range or in the "hood" cause he is a good shot. It did appear he hit the retreating officer who was moving, with the initial shot square in the temple.

These cops were probably security guards cuz they are poorly trained. This incedent was 100% preventable.
NBT is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 01:59 PM   #11
threegun
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2006
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,000
For those who think that running backwards and hitting are impossible.......I got news for you.
threegun is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 04:35 PM   #12
Doggieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2006
Location: San Diego, Calif.
Posts: 717
I agree that once the gun is pulled and it's within arm's reach you have to go for it. That should have been an automatic response, because the cops did have at least a full second, maybe a little more, from the time they became aware of the weapon to when the guy started firing. But also it looks like the guy shoots both cops in the head while they were moving -- very good (or lucky) shots. Kind of freaky knowing some ghetto hoodlum is that effective with his weapon.
Doggieman is offline  
Old May 31, 2006, 04:48 PM   #13
threegun
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2006
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,000
I still think it was luck. Look the second officer was moving and much further. Some of the finest shooters in the world could have easily missed a head shot on a moving target under that pressure. I am convinced that it was luck and not skill.
threegun is offline  
Old June 1, 2006, 08:19 AM   #14
Harley Quinn
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2005
Location: State of KALI
Posts: 1,531
Luck???

Could anyone understand what they were saying?

I must be missing something here, How do you know they were head shots?
If the original shots were head shots why would he have had to shoot them when they were down. I would think that was when they were head shots.

I am missing what you are seeing?

HQ
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old June 1, 2006, 02:59 PM   #15
Doggieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2006
Location: San Diego, Calif.
Posts: 717
I think he was just making sure. The angle of the gun plus the way that both guys dropped indicates to me they were head shots. Getting hit in the shoulder or neck is not going to drop you to the ground like a sack of cement, especially if you're a cop IMHO.
Doggieman is offline  
Old June 1, 2006, 06:05 PM   #16
FLA2760
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2005
Location: Hernando County, Florida
Posts: 567
re cops shot

Hi
that is totally f@#%^d up! sad. Why would anyone turn their back on this PR especially after he starts talking spanish to his running buddy. FRY EM!
__________________
STEVE, NRA LIFE MEMBER; Member GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA
What part of "shall not be infringed" do people not understand? Don't blame me I voted for McCain.
FLA2760 is offline  
Old June 2, 2006, 04:10 PM   #17
jcoiii
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2002
Location: TN
Posts: 556
HQ,

My fault. I misread a previous post which said that he "hoped that they got the same when they got caught." I missed the "hoped" part.
__________________
Truth knows no political correctness.

I do not aim with my hand.......
jcoiii is offline  
Old June 5, 2006, 12:01 AM   #18
OneInTheChamber
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2005
Posts: 789
They look like British cops to me, I don't believe they were armed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
__________________
Insert witty, comical, and/or significant quote here.
OneInTheChamber is offline  
Old June 5, 2006, 12:11 AM   #19
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,638
It is pretty odd they were wearing vests outside their t-shirts. I'm thinking outside the US as well.
chris in va is offline  
Old June 5, 2006, 01:51 PM   #20
NBT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 134
It was outside the US, Ogrish reports this was in Puerto Rico if I remeber correctly.
NBT is offline  
Old June 5, 2006, 02:31 PM   #21
Doggieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2006
Location: San Diego, Calif.
Posts: 717
I thought they were south american or something.
Doggieman is offline  
Old June 5, 2006, 03:29 PM   #22
Hulbert
Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 34
Not the UK - There hasn't been a case of 2 Brit cops being shot and killed in the same incident in almost 50 years.
Hulbert is offline  
Old June 5, 2006, 04:44 PM   #23
Harley Quinn
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2005
Location: State of KALI
Posts: 1,531
That would explain it.

They are pretty tacky looking for being USA Police.
I sure could not understand them.

HQ
Harley Quinn is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11612 seconds with 7 queries