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Old May 5, 2006, 03:57 PM   #1
tshadow6
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hide away knives

An article I read in a gun magazine encouraged the carrying of a small "push " style knife. The knife was similar to the "Urban Pal" push knife. Does anyone use/carry such a small fixed blade? Do they come in handy? I will more than likely buy one, since I haven't bought a knife in nearly two months, but I want to be able to rationalize it.
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Old May 5, 2006, 04:40 PM   #2
Dre_sa
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i do

yeah i carry one of those stiff K.I.S.S knives made by C.R.K.T.
im happy that i have never had to use it in the 5 years ive been carrying it. i did however prepare to make use of it one night about 2 years ago. i was sitting in a group and some drunks came up and started making trouble. luckily the situation ended without any problems.
as this is actually a S.D weapon, it barely ever leaves its home on my belt, although i have used it for some aritrary cutting jobs when it was the only implement at hand.
they do come in useful, but for general cutting purposes i would suggest something cheap and replaceable
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Old May 5, 2006, 04:45 PM   #3
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I just bought and started carrying a Ka-Bar TDI and i love it. It is by far the "fastest" knife to get into action i've ever carried. I would recommed it to everyone. I carry mine on my weak side just in case i need a little help retaining my pistol.
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Old May 5, 2006, 05:13 PM   #4
joab
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I carry the MiniPal.
About a 1" push knife

I'd love to find a disguised kneck knife like the crucifix knife the Mexican kid carried in Bararosa
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Old May 5, 2006, 06:04 PM   #5
stephen426
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While I don't always carry my gun (don't hang me here), I always carry my knife. While it is ultimately for self defense, I end up using it all the time. I carry a Benchmade 710 which is the best damn knife I have ever used. It has Benchmade's patented Axis Lock which is super smooth and easy to open with one hand. Closing is also very easy and can be done with one hand. The profile is very compact making it easy and comfortable to carry around all day. It has an excellent blade made of 154CM which comes extremely sharp and holds it edge very well. It is easily sharpened but Benchmade has the lifesharp guarantee where they will sharpen the knife for you for $5 the first knife and $2.50 each additional knife. The knife can be used as a kubaton (blunt strinking device) when closed for less than lethal defense since it has stainless steel liners. The handles are made of G10 laminate and offer an excellent grip. My knife is half serrated making it useful for a variety of

I know it sounds like I work for Benchmade but I don't. I have been carrying this knife for about 5 years already even though I have about a dozen other knives. Pretty much the best damn knife I 've ever used.

In a close quarters (contact distance) situation, I would probably grab my knife before grabbing my gun. I would try to grab a hold of the gun arm first, grab my knife and cut the gun arm across the wrist (down stroke) (hopefully sever tendons and nerves to make him drop the gun). If the bad guy does not drop the gun, he'll get a second cut in the inner bicep area (up stroke)(maybe hit the brachail artery and more nerves). I doubt the bad guy will still be holding the gun but if he is, the third cut will be the throat (backhand stroke). By that time, it won't matter if he is holding the gun.

Knives don't run out of bullets. They are dangerous in an arc rather than just a vector. Knives are silent. The greatest weakness is limited range so if its further than contact distance, go for the gun.
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Old May 5, 2006, 06:21 PM   #6
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I find that I always like to have some weapon available whether it be a gun or knife. Sometimes it's difficult to include a gun in my dress or impractical depending on the engagement or illegal (for instance in a bar) so I always carry a boot knife or a folder.

I like carrying the combonation of gun + knife best, but don't always do so.

Never had to use either in self defense.

Often use the knife as a tool.
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Old May 5, 2006, 07:44 PM   #7
Bill DeShivs
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I'm seriously into knives in a professional way.
I don't advocate using a knife for self defense. If the knife becomes a weapon of opportunity when that's all you have available, then so be it.
But to say " In a close quarters (contact distance) situation, I would probably grab my knife before grabbing my gun. I would try to grab a hold of the gun arm first, grab my knife and cut the gun arm across the wrist (down stroke) (hopefully sever tendons and nerves to make him drop the gun). If the bad guy does not drop the gun, he'll get a second cut in the inner bicep area (up stroke)(maybe hit the brachail artery and more nerves). I doubt the bad guy will still be holding the gun but if he is, the third cut will be the throat (backhand stroke). By that time, it won't matter if he is holding the gun.

Knives don't run out of bullets. They are dangerous in an arc rather than just a vector. Knives are silent. The greatest weakness is limited range so if its further than contact distance, go for the gun." Is pure folly. It would probably get you shot! You might be able to do it if you know the person and know the gun was unloaded. I'm sorry, but I doubt that you would be able to think this way this quickly. Truly fighting with a knife is a martial art, and requires quite a bit of training.
Knives are wonderful tools, but guns are much better for self defense.
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Old May 5, 2006, 08:02 PM   #8
steelheart
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Not exactly a hide away knife, but once I had to draw my Cold Steel Recon Scout (7.5" blade) on a guy who was getting ready to invade my personal space in a parking garage one night.

He got religion real quick.
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Old May 7, 2006, 08:37 PM   #9
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I always have a couple of knives on me, a big Swiss Army knife for tools (I work in IT) and a little Hen & Rooster folder for everyday cutting chores. I have to agree with Bill that unless you really know what you're doing knives aren't a really good choice for SD. I've had some training on fighting with knives and defending against knife attacks when unarmed in martial arts, but I'm very much an amateur. Knife fighting is a demanding practice, and unless you dedicate lots of time to learning from a good instructor I think you'd be in for an unpleasant surprise in a real-life situation. I'm not questioning anybody's qualifications, if you really know how to use a knife than you've got a good second line of defense, but if you haven't been trained you should think twice about how safe you are.

Also, I can't speak for other areas but in Tennessee blades over 4" long are considered concealed weapons. Also, carrying a fixed blade can get you charged with, I think the phrase is "intent to go armed." For any of you who are carrying knives for SD, I'd recommend reading up on your state laws. I think its more than a little silly that I'm licensed to carry a pistol but can get arrested for carrying a Bowie knife, but that's the law and its important to know it and follow it.
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Old May 7, 2006, 10:10 PM   #10
Bill DeShivs
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Mr. 762- where in Tenn?
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Old May 8, 2006, 08:42 PM   #11
tshadow6
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bought a knife

Well guys, I resisted temptation long enough. I found an Urban Pal on ebay for a total of $20.55 I should have it in a few days. It should be a nice "just in case" item to have.
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Old May 8, 2006, 10:17 PM   #12
oldbillthundercheif
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Train Hard!

Anyone who carries a knife for self-defence needs to train with it constantly. Otherwise you will be cut to ribbons by the next hobo you run into. Hell, you will probably be cut to ribbons in a knife-fight that you "win", no matter the circumstances.
Acquire a "red-gun" version of the knife you carry (or something fairly close, you may have to substitute a "red" k-bar for your super-commando XZY). You will also need a bucket of paint, several white t-shirts, and a friend willing to invest in simmilar items.
Then proceed to slash at each other until you get good at it...

Do this or very bad things will happen when the brown substance flys into the rotors.
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Old May 9, 2006, 10:35 AM   #13
stephen426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs
Is pure folly. It would probably get you shot! You might be able to do it if you know the person and know the gun was unloaded. I'm sorry, but I doubt that you would be able to think this way this quickly. Truly fighting with a knife is a martial art, and requires quite a bit of training.
Knives are wonderful tools, but guns are much better for self defense.
Bill,

I understand where you are coming from and I respect your opinion. The problem I see is trying to outdraw someone who already has a gun on you and is so close that expecting him to miss is practically impossible. If I thought I was just going to be robbed, hell, I'll just give him my wallet and be done with it. Why even resist and put myself at risk over a couple of bucks? If I feel he is going to shoot me anyways, I sure as hell will go down fighting.

I am trained in martial arts and am in decent physical shape. While I am not an expert on disarming an armed attacker, we did go over some disarming techniques. First and foremost, you have to get out of the line of fire. By faking submission, you should look for an opportunity to move your body out of the line of fire and control the gun arm. While this is risky, you would be surprised that is can be done relatively easy for someone not expecting resistance. Like I said, bullets are only dangerous in a single vector and I sure as hell would not want to be in line with that vector. Once you control the gun hand however, there is no advantage. Consider taking some Aikido or Jujitsu classes and you may be surprised how easily you are disarmed (please make sure you are using dummy guns or triple check to make sure the gun is empty). There is actually a move to break the attackers wrist and turn the gun on him. A knife would also be highly advantageous in close quarters provided that you could access it quickly and one handed. Like I said earlier, if it is not contact distance, it is better to use a gun or not resist unless you are sure you have a chance to clear leather without getting shot. If you try to disarm a knife weilding attacker, prepare to get cut up. The best thing is to create some distance and shoot the SOB.
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Old May 11, 2006, 01:40 PM   #14
Arizona Fusilier
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I carried a Mini-Pal on my spare key chain, just because I got it as a present. Never used it though.

I'm normally not without a knife of some type.
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Old May 12, 2006, 10:23 PM   #15
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...utostryker.jpg
I carry this every day. I'm sure a fixed blade would do nicely as well.
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Old May 20, 2006, 06:58 AM   #16
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I always carry a back up knife. I find it darn hard to clean my fingernails with a Colt Commander.
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Old May 20, 2006, 10:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
In a close quarters (contact distance) situation, I would probably grab my knife before grabbing my gun. I would try to grab a hold of the gun arm first, grab my knife and cut the gun arm across the wrist (down stroke) (hopefully sever tendons and nerves to make him drop the gun). If the bad guy does not drop the gun, he'll get a second cut in the inner bicep area (up stroke)(maybe hit the brachail artery and more nerves). I doubt the bad guy will still be holding the gun but if he is, the third cut will be the throat (backhand stroke). By that time, it won't matter if he is holding the gun.

Knives don't run out of bullets. They are dangerous in an arc rather than just a vector. Knives are silent. The greatest weakness is limited range so if its further than contact distance, go for the gun.
+1 one for this, I carry a knife for the same reason as well as to aid in weapon retention.

Quote:
Is pure folly. It would probably get you shot! You might be able to do it if you know the person and know the gun was unloaded. I'm sorry, but I doubt that you would be able to think this way this quickly. Truly fighting with a knife is a martial art, and requires quite a bit of training.
Knives are wonderful tools, but guns are much better for self defense.
So what would YOU do in that situation Bill? Try to draw your firearm and get distance on a guy that has already drawn? Now THAT would probably get you shot.
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Old May 20, 2006, 01:25 PM   #18
Bill DeShivs
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More than likely, I would already have my gun in hand.
I'm not saying a knife is not a weapon. I'm saying it is a last ditch weapon of chance.
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Old May 20, 2006, 07:52 PM   #19
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I have to

Agree with Bill; my knives I carry, in conjunction with my handgun, are defensive. If. in my opinion, it is time to bring out a weapon, then it will be my pistol. Understand this, knives are tools, but are also deadly force. I am armed with a handgun whenever I leave the house; either in uniform in the duty belt or in civvies, concealed. If I need to draw a weapon, then in my trained, professional opinion, the use of deadly force is a very strong possibility. I'm not trained in knife fighting; I am trained in the use of a pistol; if I have to shoot to stop I will...I can't see myself or my fellow officers using a knife to stop someone in a deadly force situation...my knife(s) are for opening boxes, and as a last ditch (if I have lost the use of my pistol...
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Old May 20, 2006, 08:06 PM   #20
stephen426
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CWO4USCGRET and Bill DeShivs,

Let me clarify my point... I would only pull my knife if someone already had a gun drawn on me and was at contact distance. It would be hard for either of us to miss each other if we got in a fire fight and the chances of me drawing and shooting him before he gets a shot off are slim to none. At contact distance, I would try to disarm him. First of all, I would fake compliance and try to catch him off guard. You need to remember that a gun is only dangerous in one vector. If I could control his gun hand and grab my knife, I'm pretty sure I would be better off than if we exchanged shots at point blank range. You can be 100% aware of your surroundings but it is almost always possible for someone to get the jump on you.

I'm not saying you should whip out a knife if the guy is a few feet away from you and already has a gun pointing at you. A knife is only useful at contact distances. In my opinion, it is always better to give up what money you have on you than risk getting shot. If the bad guy gives you the impression that he is going to kill you anyways, fight for you life. Even if you walk around with $10,000 in your wallet, hospital bills and lost wages will make that amount seem like chump change. I'm not sure what a funeral costs now a days but you might want to consider the cost of that too. The problem is I'm worth more dead than I am alive so my wife would probably sign a DNR in a heart beat... Just kidding.

Unless you guys are really such quick draw McGraws, I'd hand over the wallet.
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Old May 22, 2006, 02:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
At contact distance, I would try to disarm him. First of all, I would fake compliance and try to catch him off guard. You need to remember that a gun is only dangerous in one vector. If I could control his gun hand and grab my knife,
I fail to see why you would opt for your knife in this scenario instead of a gun. If you are in control of his gun hand and have the time to draw your blade why wouldn't you draw your gun and end it quickly and violently?

I carry a knife all the time, mainly for it's utility, but would only go to it first if there was no way to go for my gun. If I am already at gun point, and decide to resist, then I will try for the gun not the knife.
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Old May 22, 2006, 02:57 PM   #22
stephen426
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The reason I would go for a knife instead of a gun is the typical attacker will have 2 hands as well. If you grab his piece and he grabs your piece, the stronger person should win. If you try to grab my knife, I can guarantee you that you will get cut. Another reason I would go for the knife instead is it is more accesible. I can do it one handed since it is designed to open one handed. I keep it clipped on my waistband behind my phone so it is concealed yet accesible. I don't carry my gun openly (do you think I would get attacked if I did) and I need my other hand to pull my shirt out. My main objective is to not get shot. If I can disarm the bad guy, I greatly improve my odds. Like I said, contact distance is a whole different ball game.
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Old May 22, 2006, 03:55 PM   #23
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Knives are just so useful to have around. Everything from letter opening, cutting twine and rope, debarking branches for stakes in the garden, preparing food for the grill, opening plastic packaging, as a can opener with the right ones, and so on and also it can be used for self defense.

We really missed out when carrying the knife fell out of vogue, as its one of the most handy of utilitarian tools.
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Old May 22, 2006, 06:16 PM   #24
Bill DeShivs
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Stephen
If your gun was small enough to be carried in your pocket, you could keep your hand on it. Then you could use your knife for cleaning your fingernails, opening boxes, or cutting string.
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Old May 22, 2006, 10:37 PM   #25
stephen426
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Bill,

Like I said, I feel that it is easier to disarm someone with a gun that someone with a knife. Even with a pocket pistol, it is not easy to draw quickly. If the gun snags and you lose control of the attacker's gun hand, then you will likely get shot. I can draw and open my knfe very quickly with one hand. Bill, you respond how you want but for me, contact distance calls for a knife. I hope that neither of us has to find out what technique works better.
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