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Old December 24, 1999, 08:05 AM   #1
Skip
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I've just purchased an M1 Garand from CMP and will start reloading for it soon. I searched for and found some of the earlier threads on loads for the M1, so I'm OK there. I have two questions, though:
1. The materials from CMP and others warn of using "soft" commercial primers (rather than hard military primers) in reloading, claiming that it can result in slam-firing. Is this something to be concerned about? What primers are recommended for the Garand?
2. I'll be using my Dillon 550B for reloading. I've been reloading only for a couple years, and all of that has been for .45ACP. All of my reloading manuals (including the Lyman manual that came with the press) discuss reloading procedure and tips using a single-stage press. Any good source of advice on using a progressive press for reloading rifle rounds?
Thanks muchos,
Skip
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Old December 24, 1999, 09:15 AM   #2
Fred S
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Skip:

I load the .30-06 for the Garand on my 550B. It works nice. You have to modify your procedure a bit becaue you size the case and deprimit in the sizing die, then take it out and measure it, trim if it needs it then put it back in the first position in order to prime it.

I use Winchester or CCI large rifle primers, never had a slam fire yet.

I've used various bullets, but have purchased a large can of M2 Ball pulled from surplus ammo.

I use 47.5 grains of IMR 4895. This seems to match the military ammo well.

Enjoy your Garand. its the greatest rifle ever made. I like 'em so much I own 3.

Fred
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Old December 24, 1999, 10:20 AM   #3
Patrick Graham
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I own two of those puppies. They are great. I use CCI and Winchester primers for my 30-06 loads. I've never had a slam fire. However, I have seen a slam fire at a match. The shooter had the Garand pointed down range so it was not a problem. The AR15 also has a floating firing pin and I have had an AR15 slamfire with the old style Winchester primers. I believe slamfires is the reason Winchester went to there new "gold" primers, they seem to be harder.
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Old December 24, 1999, 02:15 PM   #4
sundog
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skip, nra puts out a pamphlet on the m1 that is great and only costs a few bucks. well worth it if you have one/many. in that pamphlet is a list of safe loads that is very helpful. also is info on accurizing and other stuff. i'll second the use of cci primers. greatest rifle every made for its intended purpose! sundog

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Old December 24, 1999, 06:47 PM   #5
zot
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when I had a garand I used Speer manual, load
IMR4350 56 gr.s with Winchester LRP, I used all LC brass and 147 gr. FMJ bullet, the load is for 150 gr. bullets,
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Old December 24, 1999, 10:58 PM   #6
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Skip, One thing no one has mentioned is powder. Don't use too slow powder. I think the recommended powders are 4064 and 4895, possibly 4320 or equivalents. The reason for faster powders is so the pressure is not so high at the gas port. Slow powders maintain their pressure longer and can damage the gun. Reddog
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Old December 24, 1999, 11:59 PM   #7
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Read Red Dog CAREFULLY, he has a good point. Government arsenals loaded 30-06, for the Garand, using 4895, and possibly 3031 also. 4895 works fine. Stay far away from slow burning numbers, they tend to bend operating rods, due to high gas port pressures, and are otherwise hard on the action, operating rod.

As I recall, the 1967 Match Load was 47.5 grains 4895, from Lake City. Of course, they were NOT using canister grade powder, what you buy at your local gun-reloading store is.

As for primers, I uded both Winchester 8 1/2-120, that's what they used to call their Large Rifle Primer, and also RWS, which were readily available where I lived 30 plus years ago. Never had a slam fire, and do not want to have one either. Generally, I have had good results, with Winchester Primers, in all sizes, though I have used other brands also.

As to bullets, IF YOU CAN FIND THEM, the old FA Match Projectile, nom. 173 grain, .308" dia., though actually a bit larger in all dim's, usually shot well in M-1 Rifles, that was the projectile used in loading Match ammunition. Sierra and or Hornady 168 grain bullets usually worked well too, and there are/were others. Personally, in a Garand, I would not go heavier than 180 grain bullets, and once again, use a medium burning rate powder (3031, 4064, 4895, nothing slower than 4320). With ball powders, some lots of WC846 were o.k. for 30-06, though usually better in .308 and 5.56mm, with 55 grain bullets. Winchester 760 and 748 might be alright, but check some manuals before using 748 in 30-06.
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Old December 25, 1999, 01:05 PM   #8
Peter M. Eick
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I read the comments about slam fires and although I reload for M1A's. I would add that I switched to CCI C-34 hard primers. They are specifically made for M1A's and M1 Garand's and recommended by Speer in there current manual. They are also recommended by Khunsen (I never get his name right) in his book on the 30 cal gas operated rifles.

I have noticed that I had to back down my loads significantly, again in 7.62 nato I went from 41.5 grns of IMR-4895 down to 39.5 grns of IMR-4895 with Seirra 168 BTHP and Federal Gold Medal brass to 2.805 COL.

Look into hard primers, given the costs of these fine rifles is it even worth the minimal risk of a slam fire with a conventional primer?

pete (the m-14 fan)
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Old December 25, 1999, 05:59 PM   #9
John Foley
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I use only CCI large rifle primers and have HAD one slam fire in I don't know how many hundreds of rounds...make sure the primers are fully setted. I belive it was a "high" one that went off on me.
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Old December 25, 1999, 06:27 PM   #10
zot
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is IMR 4350 too slow? I've used 4064 and 3031
but seemed to get alot of short strokes, and
bolt hanging up on top of next round, using
H450 I had op rods coming off, got rid of M1s
seems the greatest battle rifle had to have a armory traveling just behind,Klashnikov
better package,MERRY CHRISTMASS,
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Old December 26, 1999, 11:37 AM   #11
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Zot, IMR 4350 is not good for a Garand load. Stick with 4895, 3031, or even Varget.

Joefo

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Old December 27, 1999, 10:31 AM   #12
Kernel
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Check out Lane's Tips page for M1 reloading tips (and lots of other M1 stuff):
http://members.home.net/stuka/csptips.html

Check out Dick Culver's site for the "Mother Of All M1 Talk Forums":
http://12.4.191.54/cgi-bin/guntalk/config.pl?

zot, quit sniffing the Hoppes. M1s were making history under the severest of battle conditions long before Klashnikov designed the AK47 with the aid a captured German MP44, some #2 pencils, and a ream of tracing paper. -- Kernel
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Old December 27, 1999, 04:40 PM   #13
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zot, sorry you had such a bad experience. my best performance has been with lcnm brass and lcnm 173 grainers over 4064 and cci bench rest primers. never misses a beat! a little tlc and away we go! sundog

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Old December 29, 1999, 12:34 AM   #14
zot
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had 2 M1s, both op rods came off receiver,
had a new one put on by a smith, he said weakest link in a great gun, with factory
winchester 150 gr. loads I lost the op-rod again, I greased that rail thick, and still
I could see the op-rod slowly getting thinner
right where it rides the rail, smith looked at both guns and said some op-rods were rewelds from other countries that weren;t
heat treated right, makes sense, so I traded
2 M1s for 2 AKS's their a take off of german assault rifles, Klasnikov would
argue that,but never had so many expensive
problems with one gun as I did with the garand, I wish I would have wall mounted one.
their a great rifle but I wouldn't bet my life on one...
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Old December 30, 1999, 08:21 PM   #15
Art Eatman
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zot, it sounds like you didn't have a Garand problem. You had a "Brand X" problem with substandard parts.

When I went through Basic Training, I had a Field First Sgt. who had done two tours in Korea, including having to deal with the big Chinese attack of Chosin Reservoir fame. He bet his life on his M-1--and obviously won.

Now, I had shot over 1,000 rounds through an M-1 before I ever went into the Army. Circumstances had the Sarge and me shooting up a bunch of "leftover" ammo, one night; we shot for over two hours with no malfunctions. Poured in a lot of GI gun oil, of course.

As far as I'm concerned, if you have a "real" M-1, you can name it "Old Reliable". But Brand X parts can make _anything_ into "Old Junker".

Regards, Art
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Old December 31, 1999, 11:48 AM   #16
Alan B
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Zot
Showed you post to a couple of old timers who spent a lot of time with M1 Garands. Both had never seen the problem you described. One said the he has shot a barrel out before with out seeing an operating rod failure. He thought that the op rods were not GI or their was another problem some place else in the op rod/gas system.
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Old January 1, 2000, 08:36 PM   #17
zot
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yeah I've read alot of great stuff done with a Garand during WW2 and Korea, and even used in Vietnam. I had one witha Winchester receiver a different colored bolt, and a
barrel from Springfield Armory, also Op-rods
were mostly SAs, I've read if the wood is
bent it can cause trouble, guns were very
beat, wood was black,barrels were new looking
my experience with the Garand was bad andI
like the simple and cheap AK design, hope no
one else ever has trouble with their M1s, it
sucks to throw money away,
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Old January 7, 2000, 05:52 AM   #18
Skip
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Thanks for advice. But I'm having a dickens of a time finding the CCI type 34 primers. In fact, both of my local gun stores said they cannot even special order them. Does anyone have a source he would recommend?
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Old January 8, 2000, 05:00 PM   #19
Peter M. Eick
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Skip,

The c-34 primer is a standard CCI primer. I have never had any trouble ordering them from gun dealers. You just have to have them get out their order sheets and look for the item. Otherwise call CCI and they can ship them to the dealer.

Just remember they are Magnum equivolent primers and you need to back off your loads for them over normal primers. In my case I had to cut back over 2 full grains on IMR-4895.
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Old January 9, 2000, 12:43 AM   #20
alan
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Aside from my earlier post on this subject, I shot an old service grade M-1, made by Winchester, in National Match course competition and Long Range, for 5 years, this was a while ago, quite a while. Put at least 10,000 rounds through it. Changed bolts once, to close up somewhat longish headspace, it worked. As I recall, never had any real problems with it, slam fires or anything of the sort, though I suspect that the op rod may have suffered from overly hot long range loads, 190 grain bullets, with a stiff charge of 4895. It never came off, which was a good thing, because I fired left handed.

Some one asked about 4350 in an M-1. DO NOT USE THIS POWDER IN THE M-1 RIFLE. It's burn rate is all wrong for the M-1. works fine in bolt rifles though (30-06), especially with heavier bullets.
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