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Old April 26, 2006, 01:35 PM   #1
Mikeyboy
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.22lr vs .32apc

Some previous post as got me thinking about my next purchase, a pocket semi auto mouse gun. While I don't want to get into a debate of which gun is better, or which round is cheaper vs more reliable, I just want to talk pure ballastics and so called "stopping power" of these two mini rounds. I want to bring up the age old question that has come up time and time again, which is better; fast and light or slow and heavy in these tiny bullets. You are taking a gamble with any small round being effect in a COM shot, so lets assume its a head shot. In a SD situation at close range are you better taking a "head shot" with a .22lr high velocity round or a .32apc round or will both fail to penetrate the skull? Will one perform better in penetration?

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Old April 26, 2006, 02:05 PM   #2
Tommy Vercetti
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as much as I love the .22lr..I would opt for the .32ACP in that role
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Old April 26, 2006, 02:13 PM   #3
Clone
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personaly i dont think ya could go wrong with either if its a head shot, but i would opt for the 22lr loaded with stingers or vilociters.
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Old April 26, 2006, 02:26 PM   #4
Mikeyboy
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My concern about the .32apc is that it is kind of slow. I hear that JHP don't expand well at 700 fps or less and most .32 rounds are at the 700 to 800 range. I know slow and heavy works well for a .45 but I'm not sure in this case.
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Old April 26, 2006, 02:40 PM   #5
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Your much more likely to have a dud with a rim fire. As for me, I would go with the .22 Mag in a revolver.
Here's another thought; http://www.naaminis.com/32NAA.html
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Old April 26, 2006, 02:40 PM   #6
tjhands
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Not to be a butthead, but it's "ACP" not "APC."

Automatic Colt Pistol.
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Old April 26, 2006, 02:49 PM   #7
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Your right. No your not a buthead, but I think I'm Dyslexic
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Old April 26, 2006, 03:11 PM   #8
Hard Ball
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Tests run by the British Special Operations Executive (SOE) in 1942 ahowed that the .22lr was the most effective round in then available automatic pistol calibers.
This was confirmed by extensive actual combat use.
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Old April 26, 2006, 03:21 PM   #9
TacticalDefense1911
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.22lr's are far too unreliable (feeding, ejecting, bad primers, etc.) to be used for self defense in a semi-auto's. Personally, I am not a fan of .32's either...try taking a look at Kel-tec's P3AT in .380 ACP. It is just as small as any .32 pocket pistol you will find, and the .380 has more muzzle energy than a .32. The .380 is the smallest caliber I would think of using for self defense and even then it would only be a backup gun.
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Old April 26, 2006, 03:44 PM   #10
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In regards to the original question, .22LR X .32ACP. For those who say the .22,I'm sorry you are very mistaken, If you care do to the research instead of speaking off the top of your head you will know the .32 ACP out preforms the .22LR in a defensive role. We are not talking shooting squirels out of the trees with a rifle, but small defensive handguns. I'm not trying to start a posting war, just stating the facts. Sorry about that. BTW The Fiocchi 60gr SJHP is rated at 972 fps, and the 73 gr. FMJ hits 911 FPS

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Old April 26, 2006, 04:37 PM   #11
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Since I got my Ruger Mark III & 10/22

I've been a huge fan of 22 long rifle for "TARGET PRACTICE". As for the original question... I'd go with the 32ACP.
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Old April 26, 2006, 05:34 PM   #12
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Beretta Tomcat in stainless... For some reason I want one for backup, feels good in the hand, looks cool, trigger pull is okay and tip up barrel...

I would consider the taurus but they only make it in a .22 and not 32 acp... design is similar.
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Old April 26, 2006, 06:00 PM   #13
281 Quad Cam
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I have gone with the .32 ACP in FMJ. Better than .22lr at everything but cost.

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Old April 26, 2006, 06:33 PM   #14
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.22 Lr

The Israeli Mossad's choice in assasination missions of the up close and personal variety. I am happy to back them up.

My mouse gun is an American Arms PX-22.
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Old April 26, 2006, 07:04 PM   #15
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"Beretta Tomcat in stainless... For some reason I want one for backup, feels good in the hand, looks cool, trigger pull is okay and tip up barrel..."

I agree. I want one as well, and, I've got a 22 short version, 950, that is a lot of fun, and shoots pretty well.

Intresting results when running penetration index with these rounds.
73 grain .32 ACP gives you a 10.18 PE index
40 grain .22 lr gives you a 11.81 PE index.

Haven't worked for Mosad, but, they don't seem to have problems with results with the 22lr, nor does the mob.
From what I gather, the 22lr will enter the skull, but not exit, and bounce around, insuring quick death, with little noise. From the PE numbers, they both penetrate about the same, with a slight edge to the 22lr.

By the way, niether round has what is commonly considered, "stopping power". They both are reserved for CNS hits. I'd look at a sort of wadcutter bullet, for a clear, straight, path, and no hollowpoints.

Paco Kelly has a sizing, and shaping tool for 22lr, called the Accurizer, and, it works well to give you a flat point, for 22lr.

I'd feel comfortable with either, and prefer the 22lr, since I could practice more with it. I'd also try and carry at least a .38Plus P for any kind of defense, or really dangerous area.

S
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Old April 26, 2006, 08:46 PM   #16
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Ok, how about one of these ; http://www.naaminis.com/bwmm.html
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Old April 26, 2006, 08:50 PM   #17
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Oh heck yes, if you have a day job that requires that you shoot someone in the back of the head at point blank range the .22 LR excells in that role ( ice pick works better) however the question wasn't " is the .22 LR effective " , it was which is more effective in a defensive firearm .22LR or the .32 ACP. I like the .22, all flavors. I think that it and the .308 Winchester are the two best cartridges in the world, however , .22 verus .32, the 32 is more effective. I will agree that for shooting people in the back of the head the .22may be better, but wow, can you see trying to convince 12 of your peers that you shot a man in the back of the head from 2 inches away in self defence. Pack your bags.
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Old April 26, 2006, 09:19 PM   #18
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".22 verus .32, the 32 is more effective."

Saying this does NOT make it true. More effective at WHAT?

You want effective in a .30? Get the 7.62 x 25 mm Tokarev cartridge.

All either of the mouse guns can do is penetrate. They both are REALLY marginal, so you are going to have to prove a bit better that statement. A 60 grain .223 bullet is a pretty horrible penetrator, how does slowing it down from 3200 fps to 800 make it a better penetrator?

S

From the stopping power forums, an actual test of 22lr:

"
For my own information, I ran .22 Aguilla SuperMax 30 grain hollowpoints through the jello and the chronograph. I DO NOT recommend any .22 rimfire as a self defense round. But I was curious...and a bit surprised by the results.

Velocity from five rounds averaged 1330 fps from a five inch barreled .22 conversion unit on a 1911 frame. Penetration in the jello was about 14 inches in a perfectly straight line and the 30 grain pill expanded to .37 caliber. It shed petals from it's expansion but maintained about two thirds of it's original weight. If it delivers suitable accuracy in your pistol, I would think this would be a viable small game load. The bullet's light but performance is pretty amazing. Typically, I get 900-1000fps from the more common "High Velocity" .22's. One caution though...te chrono revealed a wide variation in velocities. They averaged 1330 but the extreme spread was more than 100 fps. "

A link to the .32:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/test...60st-b3032.htm

Looks like about the same penetration results, and goes to your which is better question???

More good stuff on .22's

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/t...=22,Long,Rifle


S
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Old April 26, 2006, 10:25 PM   #19
Mikeyboy
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Rjay...no I'm not "whacking" anyone at close range for a living. Currently I have multiple .22 weapons but I do not own a .32. Summer is comming and My .38 airlight is getting a little bulky so a pocket pistol is in order. I could get one of the most popular pocket pistols out there right now (which I handled and it seems nice but maybe too small for my big hands) or I can get a .22 and not have to add yet another caliber to my growing list. decisions, decisions...
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Old April 26, 2006, 11:16 PM   #20
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Socrates, correct me if I'm wrong , I do get confused in my old age. Mass is not important? The .45ACP is a lesser cartridge because it gos slower than a .22? The mass of a 73Gr. .32 at 900 FPS does not impart more engery than a 40Gr .22 because the .22 gos faster. Wow, all that time studying physics gone to waste. Also the question had nothing to do with 7.62X25MM or 44 Mags or 357s or S&W .500s. He asked which is better, the .22 or 32. Not what cartridge can bring down an elephant robbing the local convenience store.
Mikeyboy. When concealment was paramont I carried a small NAA Mini. I like the little .22 and think it's under rated as a defensive round. I have a choice of a number firearms I could carry ( big or small)and I now chose a Kel-Tec P-32. I like it. It really boils down to what you want and are comfortabe with. You have a good point, with a .22 you can maintain the same ammo as the other guns you have. Vaya Con Dios
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Old April 27, 2006, 12:04 AM   #21
Bill DeShivs
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People overrate the .22 LR as a defensive cartridge. Most ballistics tables are for rifle length barrels. The handgun ballistics tables usually use a 5 or 6 inch barrel. When barrel length drops to 2 or 3 inches the long rifle loses quite a bit of steam. The .32 auto in a gun like the Keltec P32 should be much more effective.
Bill
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Old April 27, 2006, 01:31 AM   #22
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Mikeyboy, personally I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying a .22lr. For not much more space I would carry one of the .38 or 9mm ultra-compacts. A Taurus PT111 9mm is my choice in a compact carry weapon, although it sounds like it might be larger than you're willing to carry.

A Kahr PM9 fits most people's standards for a "pocket pistol" and the 9mm is far better than a .22lr, .32, or (arguably) .38

If I had to carry a .22lr, I would carry at least a second magazine or a speed loader... you're going to have to put 6+ rounds into a target to ensure a stop.
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Old April 27, 2006, 05:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
Tests run by the British Special Operations Executive (SOE) in 1942 ahowed that the .22lr was the most effective round in then available automatic pistol calibers.
This was confirmed by extensive actual combat use.
the Brits did hear about the 1911 right? Or is his a joke?

Oh yeah i have a tomcat as well.
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Old April 27, 2006, 06:01 AM   #24
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The Colt .45 automatic was an issue weapon in some British units during the war, partly because it used the same round as the Thompson.

I think this is an interesting thread because small automatics are interesting. There are more choices in small autos other than the two cartridges mentioned but people laugh at the .22 short and the .25 ACP. For any given model, however, the choices are generally limited and usually there is either one or the other. Lately, choices have been wider.

I won't make any comments based on broad experiences with shooting living things with any of these rounds but cost is always a factor and .22 RF is certainly cheaper. Up to a point, small pistols can be fun to shoot and challenging, too, though you may not necessarily be looking for a challenge.

Walther is selling their PPK and PPK/S in .32 ACP in addition to the .380, which is a little more of a handful in that size, if you ask me. But the PPK is always classy.
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Old April 27, 2006, 10:52 AM   #25
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"In regards to the original question, .22LR X .32ACP. For those who say the .22,I'm sorry you are very mistaken, If you care do to the research instead of speaking off the top of your head you will know the .32 ACP out preforms the .22LR in a defensive role. We are not talking shooting squirels out of the trees with a rifle, but small defensive handguns. I'm not trying to start a posting war, just stating the facts."

RJay, since you have "done the research" what tests do you base your staement on? Who conducted the tests and what was the test medium?
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