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Old April 16, 2006, 08:18 AM   #1
Vanguard.45
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Taurus Gaucho vs. Ruger New Vaquero vs. Ruger Blackhawk vs. Ruger Vaquero (Old Model)

All right, I have decided on a Stainless 4-5/8 inch barreled Single Action sixgun chambered in 45 Long Colt. Here are my questions:

1. Which of the above choices and why?

2. Are the Old Style Vaqueros and Blackhawks of such a ruggedness as compared with the other two that I should be concerned if I actually purchase the Taurus or New Vaquero?

3. I have heard HORROR STORIES in the past about Taurus products. Should I apply the same caution to their Gaucho models that I have applied to their other products in the past?

Let me know what you think, cowboy shooters (and others who appreciate the song of the wheelgun!)!

As always, thanks in advance for your time and expertise!

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Old April 16, 2006, 08:47 AM   #2
WESHOOT2
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here are my answers

1) old Ruger

2) "Ruger only" data mean anything to you?

3) yes or no; this one is up to you

I own products from Ruger and Taurus (but none you've asked about), but MY advice is to buy an older Ruger Blackhawk or Vaq to take advantage of its greater versatility (remember "Ruger only" data...)

I DO know this: you can't get hurt buying an older Ruger.
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Old April 16, 2006, 09:48 AM   #3
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I prefer the SAA clones over Ruger's offerings, but that's a matter of personal preference. Because of that, the grip profile of the Blackhawk and old Vaqueros are non-starters for me. The new Vaquero is better; but the overall lines and balance of the gun are just bearly "not right."

The Gaucho features "four click" action, even though it has a transfer bar safety and is therefore safe to carry with a round under the hammer. It's a true SAA clone, with all of the aesthetics and balance of the original.

Having said all that, I've never personally owned or shot a Gaucho, so take my input with a grain of salt.

Any reason you opted away from Cimarron, Uberti, and the Beretta SAA clone?

Regards,

Kevin
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Old April 16, 2006, 10:24 AM   #4
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I'd go old vaqueo all the way if you can find one. Blackhawks have aluminum grip frames and pro-snag sights that move under recoil. Vaqueros are blackhawk deluxes and look much prettier also. I prefer the old Vaquero to the new for its greater strength, better grip, and nice wood stocks. Good luck
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Old April 16, 2006, 10:38 AM   #5
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Speaking to kjdoski's question re other Colt clones...I believe the Beretta is unique among the Italians (and vs Taurus) in offering a "Ruger-like" trigger, i.e., wider, which I perfer to the nothing-but-a-little-wisp-of-a-trigger of the true Colts/clones. Beretta combines this feature, like the Gaucho, with the transfer bar, and so may be a nice combination/compromise. Colt-like grips, size/feel/balance w/ these more modern features. But that brings about the question again of "if going that route to begin with, why not the New Vaquero?" Early reported problems notwithstanding, it certainly should be as-or more-rugged than the Italians even in .45 Colt (vs the seemingly fully accepted .357) form. I actually like/applaud the Ruger black grips..very functional, "trail ready" and Colt/period looking, with the idea now being, if you want wood go get a (really) nice set. Never thought the stock Ruger woods were anything special. Had a few Rugers where I was replacing wood with wood (so then my alternate set was the old wood!), which was an odd exercise. JMO.
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Old April 16, 2006, 10:40 AM   #6
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My _first_ choice would be a US Firearms. I saw one at the Tulsa Gun Show for $500. (The low cost finish Rodeo model.) I was hot on the trail of other things I wanted to buy so I didn't pick it up but they are sure nice guns. The more expensive models are worth the price.

http://www.usfirearms.com/

You can go to that site and download a .pdf file to see their whole catalog. You will discover a whole bunch of things you need though!

I don't own a New Vaquero but I do have a new 50th Anniversary Blackhawk. They have the same size gripframe. Very nice. I far prefer it to the chubby old style. If I wanted to shoot ".45 Magnums" then I would want adjustable sights anyway. The New Vaq is made to be just as strong as any modern SAA clone and that really should be plenty strong for a fairly short barreled fixed sight gun.

Gregg
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Old April 16, 2006, 05:17 PM   #7
Vanguard.45
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kjdoski asks. . .

"Any reason you opted away from Cimarron, Uberti, and the Beretta SAA clone?"


I want to buy a sixgun that will last a lifetime. I just don't believe that the imported guns from Italy are as strong as the Rugers or use the quality parts of the Rugers, the Taurus, or the original Colts. Several gunsmiths who have done work on the Italian guns have said that the parts are just not always up to par. Also, I tend to think you get what you pay for. Maybe I am mistaken.

Any opinions on this?

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Old April 16, 2006, 05:18 PM   #8
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While my 'Old' Vaquero was beautiful. I didn't like it!!! The most frustrating thing was trying to eject casings when the cylinder didn't line up with the "Click". If you heard a "Click" that meant you had gone past Go, and couldn't collect $100, unless you went all the way around again.

I have written about this in the past and the advice I received from Ruger fanatics was, "Learn the Gun". Why should I? Build the dam thing right! Which they did with the 'New' Vacquero! Ditto the 'Old' Blackhawk.

The 'Old' Vacquero also has a pointed ejection rod and only 2 'Clicks". The 'New' Vacquero has a diamond shaped ejection rod and 4 "Clicks". "Clicks" may not be important to you. They turn me on, and at my age that ain't easy to do!

Taurus has been making the Gaucho for a long time. Regarding Taurus quality, there have been very few, if any, 'Horror' stories regarding Taurus hadguns in the last 5 years or so. I don't recall any 'Horror' stories regarding the Gaucho on TFL, but I might have missed it. There have been many posts (actually too many posts) regarding Taurus quality.

The Taurus bashers are beginning to lose ground in these battles because as people buy the New Tauri they voice their opinions more. I would not hesitate to purchase a Gaucho.

The Charles Daly Clone is an excellent piece, with an excellent price. My Beretta Stampede is excellent.

IMHO todays single action cowboy shooters are better. Unlike the 'Old' Smiths & Colts there is no reason to step back into the past for a better single six.

May I offer a little self protection?

Ruger Security Six
Ruger GP100
Ruger SP-101 (Sold)
Ruger Vacquer (Sold)
Ruger P95D
Ruger P345D
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Old April 16, 2006, 05:34 PM   #9
Vanguard.45
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Thanks, Bullrock!

So the NEW Ruger Vaquero has the "4-Clicks" just like the old Colts???

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Old April 16, 2006, 05:46 PM   #10
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Vanguard, I don't own one (yet) but according to what I have read they do have the old Colts 4 Clicks.

Many times in the old western movies the good guy would sneak up behind the bad guy, point his Colt at the BG's head from about 6" away, and cock that hammer. Click, Click, Click, Click! Then the Bad Guy would get that awe sh*t look on his face...

So the next time you're out on the range and hear those Click, Click, Click, Click's from 6" behind your head, your range riding days, may be at an end!!!
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Old April 16, 2006, 06:28 PM   #11
Vanguard.45
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I might be hearing those four clicks. . .

but HE's forgotten about my buddy in the church bell tower with the 30-30 lever action trained on his noggin'!

It's all in the preparation, my friend!

Thanks for all of the great info!

I just might have found a deal on an Old Model Vaquero fitting the bill for a sweet price!

We'll see.

I have handled the older Rugers and kind of like the fatter grips ( I have large-ish hands, so I think the wider grips might do better for me!).

What are your thoughts?

Vanguard.45
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Old April 16, 2006, 07:45 PM   #12
tulsamal
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Quote:
I have handled the older Rugers and kind of like the fatter grips ( I have large-ish hands, so I think the wider grips might do better for me!).
It's not just the grips. You could always get thicker grips for the NV. But the older guns were just "chubby" all over. At least if you compared them to a real SAA. Look at the photos of the cylinders on Jeff's site:

http://gunblast.com/Ruger-NewVaquero.htm

And a later update: http://gunblast.com/Ruger-NewVaquero2.htm

Gregg
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Old April 16, 2006, 08:07 PM   #13
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Have they stopped making the "Old" Vaqueros? Got a nice deal on an "Old" model in 45 Colt and I love it.
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Old April 20, 2006, 03:55 PM   #14
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In terms of the number of "clicks" made by hammer on its way back to the full cock position, the "new" Vaquaro is the same as the "old" Vaquaro- no four clicks. The Taurus Gaucho, however, not only has a transfer bar safety system but also has the coveted C-o-l-t four clicks.
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Old April 20, 2006, 04:45 PM   #15
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what you want

If "clicks" are important to you, then they are. If the feel of one over the other is important, then it is. Personal preference. Rugers can be converted to a free wheeling cylinder. There are no stronger single actions until you start looking at the 5 shooter monster magnums. And some of them are built on Ruger frames. I don't know about "new model" Vaqueros, did Ruger change something? I have a 7.5in in .44 Mag, and Blackhawks in .45 Colt/.45acp. Tanks. But I like tanks. Makes Colts look puny.

Get what you like best, but if you can, you ought to buy American. Lots of things aren't made here anymore, but if I can get what I want from an American manufacturer, I will. even if it costs a little more.
Have fun.
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Old April 20, 2006, 08:33 PM   #16
timothy75
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Since we're talking clicks here the Gaucho's clicks dont sound like Colt and replica clicks. They sound like they put there for no other reason than to click. Their evenley spaced and sound kinda generic. If you give me file I can make a Vaquero with 5 clicks!
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Old April 20, 2006, 09:56 PM   #17
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Actually, I don't care about clicks one way or the other. I was only responding to Bullrock's post where he alleged that the Ruger Vaquaro has the four clicks- when it doesn't. Just trying to keep the record straight.
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Old April 20, 2006, 10:33 PM   #18
Hafoc
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Gaucho Clicks

I've heard that the Gaucho's innards are somewhat beefed up and simplified compared to the original Colts or the true clones. So I don't doubt Timothy 75 when he says the Gaucho doesn't sound the same as the Colt.

However, I've had a Gaucho and a clone, and I've read up on the Colt and its problems. So I know that whether or not they are exactly the same or sound the same, the "four clicks' perform the same function on both revolvers.

The first click is the so-called safety notch. Second is half-cock, for loading or unloading; the hammer here is far enough back that the cylinder has been unlocked to rotate freely, and the half-cock notch holds it in that position while you load. Third click is the cylinder bolt snapping into position, locking the cylinder, and fourth is full cock, ready to fire.

I've read articles where the author claims that nobody knows why there's a quarter-cock position on the Colt hammer. That's just silly. It was clearly intended as a safety notch. It raises the hammer so that the firing pin (which on the original Colt is part of the hammer) isn't resting on the primer of a live cartridge, as it would be if the hammer were down. It also locks the trigger.

Problem being that this safety doesn't work.

There are two problems with it. First, the quarter cock mechanism is too fragile to rely upon. It is a notch cut into the underside of the hammer, with only a knife-blade thin piece of metal in front of the notch. This is going to wear away fairly quickly even under normal use. If you insist on fanning the revolver, you're going to destroy it almost instantly. Even if neither of these happens, the bit of metal is weak enough that a sharp rap on the hammer is likely to break it off, and then BANG!

The second problem is the Phantom Notch. Rather than drop into the quarter notch, the sear could perch on the narrow flat space between the quarter cock and half cock notches. This situation is basically a hair trigger; a touch of hammer or trigger, or a jolt, could make the hammer fall.

Which is why those who know the old Single Action Army won't say it has a safety notch at all; they just say you should carry the thing with the hammer down on an empty chamber.

This is correct. You should. Technically, though, rather than saying the SAA has no safety, it would be more correct to say that it has one that's worse than useless.
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Old April 20, 2006, 10:40 PM   #19
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I picked up an Old Ruger Vaqeuro Bisley....luvin it. Yeh its a bit beefier...but beefy is good in revolvers.
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Old April 21, 2006, 02:54 AM   #20
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i have a new model blackhawk 45colt 7.5" and love it. i shoot the hot loads never have had a problem. just like weshoot2 pointed out the ruger has its own section in the reloading book for those who like it hot.
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Old April 22, 2006, 06:38 AM   #21
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Your choice will be based on personal preference.
I prefer the Blackhawks, in stainless, in .45 Colt with .45ACP cylinders, with 5 1/2" barrels. Your preferences may vary.
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Old April 24, 2006, 03:00 PM   #22
Jack Malloy
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I put more stock in first hand experience than "what you hear."

For example, I own two Taurus firearms and have shot a boatload of them over the past 20 years with no bad experiences.
Now, I am not known for my good luck either.

So when I hear the "horror stories" i take em with a grain of salt.
Every maker lets loose a lemon from time to time. It just seems that some people take a hissy fit if its a Taurus, whereas they tend to keep quiet when its a Colt.

Conversely, I have seen scads of praise for certain guns I would consider to be junk based on numerous first hand failure examples...
I think sometimes when it comes to opinions that the depraved workings of the individual mind have more to do with such statements of opinion than actual facts.
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Old April 24, 2006, 03:05 PM   #23
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U.S. Firearms Co.

Damn you, Tulsamal...

Quote:
You can go to that site and download a .pdf file to see their whole catalog. You will discover a whole bunch of things you need though!
I did, and I did.
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Old April 24, 2006, 03:56 PM   #24
tulsamal
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I did, and I did.
I know, I know. US Firearms makes some beautiful stuff. And you can customize the high end pieces to however you like. It's like being able to go back in a time machine to buy guns you had given up on ever owning. Especially in new condition. We have to pay 2006 prices but we still get the old guns made the old way. If not even better since the equipment is so much more precise and the steel more consistent. I could spend $2000-$3000 a year on guns from US Firearms and do it for MANY years before I finally had enough!

Gregg
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Old April 24, 2006, 04:12 PM   #25
tulsamal
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If you don't want to download the whole .pdf catalog, just go here:

http://www.usfirearms.com/pages/highres.asp

It's the high definition picture section. You see a bunch of thumbnails. You can click on any of them to see it big. You can then use that image for wallpaper if it suits your fancy.

Gregg

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