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Old September 30, 1999, 02:35 PM   #1
spanky
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It's me again. I am having a problem with my RCBS RockChucker press. I am loading .45 ACP bullets,when I am pressing the bullet into the brass I am getting a small bulge on one side of the brass, no matter how hard I try to center it I still get the small bulge.The bulge is basically where the bottom of the bullet is.Is the only solution for this to send the die to RCBS and have them form the seater plug to the bullets I am loading?
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Old September 30, 1999, 02:52 PM   #2
Mal H
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Hi spanky, how's the old gang? We'll get to the bottom of this problem. I've had these bulges also, but there isn't one single answer to fix them.

What bullet are you using, Cu clad, plated or cast lead? What is the outside diameter of the bullet? What is the inside diameter of a sized casing? What brand of die? What brand of casings and approx. how many times have they been fired? Are they soft, i.e., can you bend them easily at the mouth with your fingers? This is a subjective test, but it may indicate they need proper annealing.

A few things to try: 1) Bell the mouth of the casing just a tad more. 2) Lubricate the inside of the mouth with a case brush and a little "motor mica". 3) I think you're already doing this, but be sure the bullet is as straight up as possible when you seat it.

IMO, I don't think having the seater plug milled to match the bullet will help. But it brings up a thought - are you using the concave plug for round nosed bullets and/or the flat one for flat nose?
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Old September 30, 1999, 04:54 PM   #3
Cheapo
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I like that bulge because it indicates I really do have a tight case neck grip on the bullet.

Borrowed a buddy's progressive when I was poor & broke. Even abandoning the expander operation, I could do these things to the bullet: twist in the case, push in, and sometimes even pull 'um clear out!

Insufficient resizing.

If that base of bullet bulge is appearing on only one side of the case, that might just be where the neck is thinnest. The other 270° of the neck is probably keeping the bullet aligned with the case axis (and presumably the bore axis).

Short story--if your bullets are not "tipped" at their final loaded position and they shoot accurately enough, you really do not have a problem.

Annealing the case mouths *may* allow a more even distrubution of the bulge. Cosmetically and for final peace of mind for accuracy of serious rounds being assembled, the bulge should be pretty much even all the way around.

Factory-assembled new ammo often shows the full-circumference bulge.

The measurements Mal H mentions can provide useful guidance regarding how make the rounds prettier. Fer instance, annealing won't do much if your case necks are just plain thicker on one side than the other.
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Old September 30, 1999, 06:06 PM   #4
Mal H
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Cheapo - Right you are. The bulge you are talking about is the one where the bullet is nice and tight in the case and the "bulge" is simply the outline of the larger diam. bullet in the case - no problem. But, if I read spanky's post correctly he is getting a bulge in the case only at the base of the bullet and only on one side. I think a better description might be a case buckling. We need spanky to clarify this with a more precise description.
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Old September 30, 1999, 08:32 PM   #5
spanky
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I guess the real reason I was wondering about the bulge is that my fired brass is catching on the bullet that is in the clip. I wasn't sure if that bulge could be enough for them to bind on one another. The bulge is enough to see and sometimes when I put the loaded bullet in the barrel of my gun and turn it, it will stick in the barrel. I guess what I was thinking is that maybe, the bulge is causing the fired brass to hang up on it.
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Old September 30, 1999, 08:41 PM   #6
spanky
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Thanks, for all of the information you have given me.
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Old October 1, 1999, 01:23 AM   #7
Cheapo
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Spanky (ya gotta love that name!):

I just finished editing my reply to your extraction query. If turning the loaded cartridge in the chamber makes it stick, it sounds like you either have a mild case buckling problem like Mal H mentioned, or a case of really serious bullet runout (tilt).

The no-problem bulge we're discussing should not noticeably affect the feeding of rounds from the magazine. Nor should it affect how smoothly the fired case extracts and ejects.

Can you get a picture of the afflicted ammo posted either on this board or in e-mail to us? If your computer is less than 2 years old, you probably have some video/still capture software bundled along with it. Just add a camcorder and you're in business to create a .bmp or whatever...

We sometimes forget that the ogive of the bullet can jam in the throat if there is too much bullet tilt... But if tilt were the only problem, it should not be a factor on ejection, IME & IMO.
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Old October 1, 1999, 03:09 AM   #8
spanky
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Sorry Guys, I don't have anyway of putting a picture up. I shot about 40 rnds.through my Colt .45 Defender and it had 5 bad ejecting cases.I'm not sure if that is good or not,hopefully I don't have a bad one in a time of need.
Step 1 I check length of brass and trim (if need be) to .888
Step 2 I deburr(if need be) and put it in the sizer die.(check length of brass again)
Then I put the brass in the expander die.
Next I will put the brass in the barrel and make sure it won't stick in it.
Then I prime and powder (CCI 300) and (Alliant Power Pistol 7 grn) as per the RCBS Reload handbook.
Now I set the bullet (speer 200grn. GDHP)into the brass as center as I can and raise the bullet until the total length of the cartridge is about 1.21-1.22.
(Little bulge on one side)Finally I check loaded bullets in barrel(push and turn) some with the bulge stick a little but, some of them eject fine when fired.
The extractor has nicked the brass where it tried to grab it on the ones that do jam.I can pull the slide back and the shell is still partially in the barrel. (I push the bullet in the clip down and lock the slide open,then I drop the clip out. Then I can either tilt the barrel up and the brass falls out or I can release the slide and eject the fired brass.
So, do your eyes hurt yet from reading my short story? LOL
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Old October 1, 1999, 01:08 PM   #9
Mal H
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spanky - I'm sure everyone will agree with me on this when you say "hopefully, I don't have a bad one in a time of need." I rarely guarantee anything, but I will guarantee you will! If the Defender is going to be what it's name implies, you have got to get the problem fixed. And especially if you have the ejection problem with factory loads, which, IMO should be your choice of ammo when you are in a time of need.

As for the reload problem, one of your statements stands out. You run the brass through the expander die and then test it in the barrel to make sure it won't stick. If you have expanded it enough it shouldn't even go in the chamber. See point #1 in my first post.

In lieu of a picture, please take 4 measurements on a loaded/bulged round for us. 1) at the mouth, 2) at the middle of the seated bullet, 3) at the bulge, 4) below the bulge.

Please gives us some additional clues by answering my questions in the second paragraph of my first post except the ones concerning the bullet description since you gave that in your last note. It is very difficult for us to diagnose the problem by the Helen Keller method.


[This message has been edited by Mal H (edited October 01, 1999).]
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Old October 1, 1999, 02:03 PM   #10
WESHOOT2
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Finish your load with a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. This die has a carbide ring that resizes the loaded cartridge, while also providing a taper/roll crimp to the cartridge mouth.

If THAT doesn't fix it, you've got a different problem!

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"

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Old October 1, 1999, 03:05 PM   #11
Jack Straw
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I have had a similar experience while loading cast bullets in 9mm. Luckily I had no feeding or extracting problems but I did think the cartridges were a bit unsightly. One thing that I found was that part of the problem was in my reloading procedures. If I smoothly raised the ram (not that I was slamming the thing home before that) the problem was greatly minimized. Apparently allowing the seating stem to center the bullet slowly let the bullet seat more as it should.

Not that I'm questioning your reloading prowess. , just sharing my experience. Perhaps it will be of some help.

Jack

I like having at least a *little* bulge...but that's another topic...

[This message has been edited by Jack Straw (edited October 01, 1999).]
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Old October 1, 1999, 11:11 PM   #12
spanky
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Okay, let me ask this question. Is there some way in which the slide could not have been moving all of the way forward but still close enough to fire the bullet.(basically to where the extractor was not close enough to the fired brass to grab it.) So, the bullet would fire but the extractor had nothing to pull back. The way I see it is the extractor should have more than enough power to pull the fired brass out.I'm sure the brass would be all bent out of shape if it was jamming against the bullet still in the clip.I haven't had time yet to check the measurements of the brass
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Old October 1, 1999, 11:45 PM   #13
dundee
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question; What reloading press are you using? does it use interchangble shell holders? I wonder if the shell holder is not lined up with the die and the case is going into the die at an angle.
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Old October 2, 1999, 12:33 PM   #14
ARshooter
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I would get a loading manual and compare some of the important dimensions. I would also drop a COMPLETED round into the barrel to check for fit. Or use a case gauge. Overall length is very important...make sure it is within specs. If the rounds check OK and the problem still exists, change to a different magazine. The feed lips might be bent. If that doesn't fix it, take the gun to a gunsmith. It has to be the gun IMHO.

Or you could sell the gun to me for $50. And I'll pay the shipping.
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Old October 2, 1999, 10:00 PM   #15
spanky
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NEWS FLASH- (IT MAY NOT BE THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE)
While messing around with my gun. (Ejecting the bullets(factory loads)out of the clip) by opening and closing the slide. I noticed that some of the bullets were coming up before the extractor (I'm not sure why)and thus jamming the bullet that was in the barrel on the one in the clip as I was opening the slide.(I have had jam ups on all three of my clips. two of them are Colt that came with the gun and one is aftermarket) This is the way I see it. The bullets are coming up before the extractor,the slide still closes enough, the bullet fires,the slide is still kicked back due to pressure(with no empty brass attached to the extractor),the slide comes forward and tries to push the bullet that is in the clip into the barrel and bindage (not bondage)occurs.
Please tell me if this makes sense and If so what might be the cause. Thank you very,very much.
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Old October 4, 1999, 01:17 AM   #16
Reddog
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I doubt that your gun would be closed enough to fire if the extractor were not over the rim. I can mention a couple more things. Don't leave too much lead shoulder exposed out of the case. About a sixteenth of an inch is enough. And do slightly crimp the case mouth. The exposed lead will slide up the ramp better than the sharp case mouth will. Too much lead may jam the bullet too far into the bore. It may also shave off a ring of lead just above the case mouth, and if that stays in the chamber it will shorten it. If you're using carbide dies, they wont size as close to the bottom of the case as the old steel dies will. But with them you have to lube your cases before sizing. If your chamber is slightly oversize, the carbide die will leave a bulge. I bet your seating depth is the problem. Reddog
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