The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 13, 2013, 06:10 PM   #1
BerdanSS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Location: to close to other houses
Posts: 888
recommend me a flintlock

I'm ready for my first flinter, and I need some recommendations. First, I was set on building my own. But after closely following Duelists series on building the TOTW bucks county rifle, I have not only determined I don't have the time, but I know my own strengths, and I am sure Mike has more rifle building skill in his left index fingernail than I have in my entire body I could probably do it....but it would take me, a couple years, much swearing and ordering doubles of several parts

I don't want to break the bank on one. But I've heard of commercially available ones (including the exact one I was looking at, pedersolis blue ridge) having slow lock times, poor barrels ect... I know there are as many styles of these as detail on a snowflake. I just want a .45 or .50 caliber long rifle along the lines of a Pennsylvanian, my favorite being the Jacob Dickert rifles. Nothing really fancy, extravagantly carved or inlayed. just nice lines and nice wood.

Are there and builders or small shops that offer a good quality complete finished rifle. Or one fully fitted just needing finish on the stock and metal for less than $1000, say maybe close the $800 mark? I'm not having any luck finding any such rifle.
BerdanSS is offline  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:39 PM   #2
Captchee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 2, 2013
Posts: 272
lots of shops , builders and smiths out there to chose from .
800 would be on the low side IMO and 1000. probably just a couple hundred short depending on who is building for you . For one that’s finished . You might find someone to do you one up in the white for 800 to 1000. But probably closer to 1000.
al-Sadat forget to ask about their back log . Its not un common to be 6 moths for a big shop or over a year for a small one
Captchee is offline  
Old October 13, 2013, 07:56 PM   #3
Old Stony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2013
Location: East Texas
Posts: 607
I'd beware of custom builders that quote you a price at 1,000 or less. The price of good parts take up a goodly portion of that amount, and I've seen some done quickly ( and really poorly), by some of these guys. I ended up with a rifle from on of these guys whose name is pretty well known, that was a total mess. For example he drilled 3 holes for the barrel retaining pins, and two of them completely missed their mark and were through the bottom of the barrel. He drilled a hole for the drum (it was a percussion), and hit the front of the breech plug, which left the drum sticking out at an odd angle from the barrel.
You might check on used rifles from The Gunworks in Oregon. They handle a lot of consignment new and used.....and will take returns if you find something you don't like about your purchase.
Old Stony is offline  
Old October 13, 2013, 09:22 PM   #4
noelf2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Stafford, VA
Posts: 1,665
$800? Sorry, but double that and you'll almost be happy.
__________________
Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.
noelf2 is offline  
Old October 13, 2013, 11:22 PM   #5
62coltnavy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2011
Posts: 203
http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/intro.html
62coltnavy is offline  
Old October 14, 2013, 05:09 AM   #6
Hawg Haggen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,441
Somewhat more than you want to spend but about as cheap as you'll find a quality rifle that fits your requirements. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego.../487/1/AAM-439
Hawg Haggen is offline  
Old October 14, 2013, 10:25 AM   #7
Captchee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 2, 2013
Posts: 272
Stony , if thats what you go then the fella either wasn’t that good of builder to begin with OR those who bought from him in the past , to make him well know , didnt know what quality was . I would have sent it back .

As to Track of the wolf .
Im not going to say much about them other then to say this .
Through the years I have had several of my rifles sold there and even sold a couple on tracks web site .
30% markup on sales is IMO way , way out of hand , but they still sell guns so …
Parts assembly wise , most times you will get a better deal from Dic at Pecatonica River . Especially on the stock prices

As to Sitting fox . Ray sells some reasonable priced gun assemblies. I have built many for folks . Used to be his prices were much lower then others . In some cases it is .
Now that being said I also have had a few that I would have rejected . Main reason for that was poor stock wood . Badly drilled ramrod holes and at times cheep imported locks . Now at other times , everything was VERY reasonable for the price .

As to cost .
Well its true your looking at around 5-600 for parts . IE lock stock and barrel .
But that also depends on the parts .
Right now I have a Dickert rifle out in the shop . Figured maple stock .
Getz barrel in 50 cal “ made by Don , not his son “. one of Bud Silers locks. Yep I said Bud , not an L&R and not one of Jims “chambers “. Davis triggers . I also have the hardware in both German silver and brass .
If any one of you think id sell the parts for that gun at 5-600 your about 300 short .

As to what a finished gun will cost , that depends on the builder, the gun and what your wanting done .
As I said , there are a lot of builders out there . Some are bigger shops like TVM . Others are small one man shops which do both gunsmith and building . Some of us do it full time and others part time . Some folks ask full shop rate and others just like to build and thus do it for both the enjoyment and alittle extra income .
So not only can you find folks who will build very reasonably , but you can also find those who wont even talk to you unless your looking at spending 5-10,000, on the low end.
Or on the extreme 120,0000 . Yep that’s what I said 120,000. I saw that gun being build from start to finish . It was sold before it was ever started and I can tell you with a very strait face that every part of the cost was accounted for . But then its very highly engraved , has over 15 thousand in silver and 30 thousand in gold . that’s not including the actual application of both to the gun .
I also brought up completion times . For the most part anyone that’s worth their salt is going to be at the very least 6 months out . Myself most times im at least a year out . It can be even longer . Right now , if a person was to call , you would be looking at this time next year . Call tomorrow and it may be Dec of next year if the person who called yesterday payment hits my mail box .

So lets talk shop time . Depending on who is making the gun and how they do it , its very easy to have 100 yours into a simple no frills rifle . So at 20.00 your looking at 2000 just in labor .

Then there are those who build because we enjoy it and making money off of someone is less important . I cant tell you the number of times I have been told that I work for free .
LMAO , well I don’t of course but I don’t count on my shop income to live off of eather . As such I sometimes take trades for labor OR often only charge 5-700 over the cost of the parts . Especially on more simple plain Jane builds when someone wants just a nice rifle to hunt with vs. something that’s a copy of an original or something with a lot of engraving , carving and such .
Right now , im just finishing up a Leigh 1200.00
Nothing fancy . It does have a custom designed and engraved patch box which frankly was a real pain . But you know what , so what .

Another case . Some of you have seen the 1860 colt “Centaure “ that I engraved and finished up a few months back that the owner posted on this forum .

After that job some of you contacted me as to how much I would charge to do the same level of work on their pistols . My price for was and is 2500.00.. That well below the cost you would find most any other engraver doing their work at .
But , the cost of that engraving was for the owner to finish building my engraving vice .
that’s all I ask . After receiving the finished pistol he made me a dam nice , hand forged pipe hawk .. I didn’t ask for more and considered myself paid in full .
The pipe hawk was over the top and un expected . It smokes wonderfully and has a place of honor right on my mantel .

Just a few weeks back I decided I wanted a 45 LC kirst converter for my Pietta 1860 .
A fella called me about engraving a 1858 and was more then willing to wait tell June before I would be able to start ., care to guess what I charged for considerably smaller amount of engraving he wanted on the Remmy .

Do I work cheep / for free ? Depends on what I want . If a person is willing to pay what I ask , then its not free is it . Catch me when I want something , then guess what . Catch me when I don’t need something and its going to cost more .
For the most part I build for 1500 and up cost depending on what the customer wants . But I I like guns , I like to build guns .
Here are some of my guns I have built through the years and I can provide references as to the quality of every last one .
oH and not one has a not properly aligned ignition or pins drilled through the barrel .

3200.00 J Baum


Cased Le Page 700.00 + trade


Dickert, 2400.00 . stocked in Faimed english walnut . caving , sliding wood patch box , engraved barrel , Silver inlay and wire work


re stock Browning with ebony buttplate with engraved heal and toe plates 200.00


Smooth rifle . 900.00


i could go on and on if folks would like .
i have SXS , smoothbores , rifles , restocks . i could go on and on .

my point is that cost just depends . you just have to look around . catch aperson on the right day and you just never know
Captchee is offline  
Old October 14, 2013, 10:26 AM   #8
Captchee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 2, 2013
Posts: 272
OH and i sometimes work on cheep stuff for folks as well . just depends on if i have time or not

CVA bobcat new in box , restocked with english walnut and brass hardware .
6 point whitney blanket and 100.00


engraved Ace .
re fit barrel and engrave , 30.00


restocked Crocket , completely eneterchangable parts back to original stock . new flaired tang . charged 200.00


OH here is one for you that i did for free . never tried to build one before and was ask to . so gave it a go and see how it turned out ..
i enjoyed this build very much. not only was it a break away from the norm but as i said , never tried to build a miniture cannon before .



OH and sometimes LOL while i mostly work on guns , i have been known to give a swing at working on horn .

here is a couple items i gave away .


Rum cup


some times i need to regain prospective so ill do something just as a change of pace . while doing The J Baum rifle which took over 6 months start to finish , i got stuck . so i did the Rum Horn .



so anyway , sorry , i got alittle caught up and miffed about price cost reputation based on price , ........... thin with Stny and noelf2 .
i guess maybe i took it wrong .
again sorry


again , look around at different people .
If it’s a small builder or smith see if they are willing to trade off part of the cost . You just don’t know tell you ask .
Don’t forget to ask for references .
when you call those references ask how the persons communication is , what their quality of work is . don’t just chose someone based on price or internet reputation.

Last edited by Captchee; October 14, 2013 at 10:49 AM.
Captchee is offline  
Old October 14, 2013, 01:24 PM   #9
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,221
Flint

A custom gun is a marvelous tool....functional and a work of art as well. My grouse gun, a flintlock fowler, is such a gun.
It was not easy to acquire. It took savings and a year wait.
That being said ......my first flint gun was a third hand Lyman Great Plains Rifle.....you could do worse. Third hand, with a less than pristine bore, it shoots like this: 100 yards, patched round ball

Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old October 14, 2013, 04:10 PM   #10
Old Stony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2013
Location: East Texas
Posts: 607
Captchee's work

Beautiful work....it's a joy to see what a guy can do when he loves his work.
Old Stony is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 06:43 AM   #11
Captchee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 2, 2013
Posts: 272
thank you Stony .
my point wasn’t to thump my own chest . it was only to say that price doesn’t necessarily mean quality and more then quality dictates a very high price .
Sure there is basically a minimum that most will charge . that’s based on parts . But above that is all labor . What a person charges is up to them . Like you I have seen work come out of rather well know shops that frankly I would have scrapped and started over . But on the other hand I have seen the same thing come out of other places as well .
that’s why it very important to know who your dealing with and that they have a free and open line of communication
Captchee is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 08:32 AM   #12
steinauge
Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2012
Posts: 24
I have had good service since 1995 from my flint Dixie "tennessee mountain rifle". All I have ever done to it is clean it.
steinauge is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 05:28 PM   #13
BerdanSS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Location: to close to other houses
Posts: 888
Thank you sirs for all the response. I may go back to the drawing board of building one....Or may take a trip to Dixie and look around
__________________
One day, Men in tall hats will thump their chests and proclaim..."oh, what a great sea of mud we lived in"--The unalterable fate of billy creek ....
"Smoke.....it's what's for dinner"
BerdanSS is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10994 seconds with 9 queries