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Old June 25, 2001, 09:28 PM   #1
Dr.Rob
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Luger questions

Hi all.. anyone who can help me on this would be greatly appreciated.

I have a horse trade in the works and the horse in question is a 1939 luger 9mm. It has a 4 digit serial # and the last 2 digits of the number match all the visible #ed parts. it has a 4 inch barrel and is cut for a shoulder stock. It has the checkered toggle and the saftey is blued. The original magazine has an aluminum bottom but is not numbered. the only identifying marks other than the serial # is a large 42 stamped lengthwise on the toggle 1939 stamped on the slide just behind the barrel and on the front of the trigger guard is a stamped "P" shape laying 45 degrees to the right just under the serial number there. It doesn't appear to be a parts gun or have any import marks so I think this might be a war trophy. Over all finish is shiny blue black at about 90% (holster wear on mmuzzle and protruding bits) and the grip is dulled down a bit. Grips may be a replacement as the left panel doesn't fit as nicely as the right. Bore is still shiny but a little rough in the grooves. the safty has one word "gesichert" visible when the safty is down. It has a shallow but sturdy u shaped lanyard bracket on the back of the frame above where the web of your thumb would hit it.

Any idea what it is? What its worth? Where to find out hor to feild strip and clean it? I know almost nothing about these pistols though I know there are many many variances and codes.

I'd appreciate any and all info I can get.

Thanks.
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Old June 25, 2001, 11:05 PM   #2
C.R.Sam
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" CODE "42" - 9mm Para. cal., 4 in. barrels, dated 1939-1940, rear toggle marked "42". One of the most frequently encountered WWII military Lugers."............Fjestad.

Sounds like you truly have a war trophy. Evaluation would be difficult without careful examination. Many have been refinished long ago and show wear on the refinish. If all original it would range from bout 400 for a 60 percenter to 650 for a 95 percenter. Made by Mauser. .......again thanks to Fjestad.

Sam
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Old June 26, 2001, 12:23 AM   #3
Steven Mace
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Dr. Rob, you might also try visiting http://www.gunsworld.com/p08/p08_home_us.html to learn more about the P.08 Luger. Hope this helps!

Steve Mace
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Old June 26, 2001, 08:28 AM   #4
BigG
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Dr Rob:

ALL Lugers have a 4 digit serial # plus a letter, like 4090F. They were done like that to hide how many were being made and maybe because Germans do things their own way. So every 10,000 Lugers the numbers would repeat and they would go up a letter.

The 42 is probably S/42 which was code for Mauser Werke. You describe a garden variety P08 from just before WWII. I would guess $350 if it is in shootable shape. HTH.

PS: Never buy a Luger as a collector's item unless you really know what you are doing. There are so many variations and Lugerfakes are an industry in itself.
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Old June 26, 2001, 11:34 AM   #5
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BigG......I agree with your input: with a nitpick.

I show 42 as very common military by Mauser.

I show S/42 as being rather uncomon civillian contract, also produced by Mauser.

Sam
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Old June 28, 2001, 01:13 PM   #6
Walt Sherrill
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42, S/42

I've got one of each -- an S/42 shooter (which was one of the many refinished guns imported from the Eastern Bloc), and a 42 collectible. At least ONE of them wasn't a commercial model.

I think you'll find that the 42s, in good (collectible) shape are getting a bit more pricey, nowadays. Mine is on consignment at Cherry's (they focus on fine collectibles) in Greensboro, NC. We're asking (and expect to get) $1100.

(Although it doesn't look it in the photo, its very crisp with little wear. The lighting they use when they take their photos makes the gun look somewhat worn. It isn't. Dark bluing. So dark, in fact, that their Luger expert suspected it had been reblued. Crisp original, serial numbered grips, etc. One mag matches, but it looks to be accident; the number is right, but its the wrong type of mag for this particular gun. Not import marked; a WWII bringback bought from a neighbor, who cousin gave it to him. He died several years ago, before I was into C&R guns, or I would have tried to get documentation from him.)

Here's a link:

http://www.cherrys.com/stokpics/1shr.jpg

After you've viewed it, delete everything to the right of ".com" and look at Cherry's other guns.
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Old June 28, 2001, 01:24 PM   #7
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Hi guys! This is something I've been meaning to take advantage of but I've never gotten aroundtuit.

Quote:
We are very proud to announce you our third E-book relating the Luger pistol.

http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/index.html

No doubt it is a document that will greatly improve your knowledge on the subject.

Content of our E-book
A brief look at the basic models of the Luger pistol
- The Old (1900) and the New (1906) construction
- The current calibers
- The frame can be of long or short type
- Old and New Model Features compared point by point
- Finishing of the Luger pistols
The Luger Model 1900
- Basic technical characteristics
- One of the first requested changes
- Thumb safety lever variations
- Pictures showing the salient features of the 1900 Model
- The grip safety broadening
The Luger 1902 in 9 mm Parabellum
- The 9 mm cartridge evolving from the 7.65 mm cartridge
- The first 1902 prototypes
- Shortening of the frame
- The curvature of the trigger guard
- The cartridges-counter model
- Mauser 1902 commemorative models
The Luger Carbine
- Long barreled models appeared during 1900
- An unusual graduated rear sight
- The 1900 models with a 175 mm barrel
- The Luger Carbine of 1902
- The Luger Carbine of the post WW I period
The transitional Models of 1903 - 1906
- Mechanism improvements of the 1903 - 1906 period
- Breechblock - Extractor - Toggle knobs
- The transitional modifications of 1904 - 1905
- The Luger Model 1906
The Standard Luger from 1908 to 1916
- By 1908 the German Army adopted the Luger pistol
- German Army Luger characteristics
- The hold-open latch discarded and later reintroduced
- The production for the Army began in 1909
- By 1916, Georg Luger changed the sear design
The Naval Luger
- The Naval Luger of 1904
- Some transitional variations
- The Naval Luger of 1906
- Naval Lugers with a modified safety
- First issue - First issue modified - Second issue
- The Naval Luger of 1908 - 1914
- The Naval Luger of 1914 - 1918
- The Naval Luger of Weimar Republic
- Photo Gallery
The Long Luger or Luger "Artillery"
- Officially adopted by the German Army on June 3, 1913
- The Erfurt arsenal produced it during 1914, only
- The Luger "Artillery" mechanical features
- The rear sight variations
- The Luger "Artillery" of 1916
- The first drum magazine pattern
- Photo Gallery
The Luger Prototypes
- The seven shots Luger prototype
- The Luger prototype in caliber .45 ACP
- The "baby" Luger of 1920
The Standard Luger of the 1925 - 45 Period
- The wooden magazine bottom was canceled
- The striker's head milled with three longitudinal grooves
- The machinery was transferred from BKIW(DWM) to Mauser
- MAUSER's typical rear frame shape
- Improvement of the 9 mm Parabellum cartridge
- Another specific feature of the MAUSER's production
- HAENEL's new improved magazines
- A trick to quickly determine if a Luger toggle is Krieghoff made
- Two types of brown plastic grip pieces
John Martz Lugers
- A truly original and meaningful technical modification
- John Vernon Martz credentials
- Martz Safe Toggle Release (U.S. Patent number 3,956,967)
- What about the M.T.S.R.?
- Photo Gallery
John Martz Luger in Caliber .45 ACP
- Lugers in 45" ACP require modifications of the structure
- How the frame is cut and the receiver lengthened
- How the toggle assembly is lengthened
- New walnut grips tailored and checkered by Georges Sarkisian
- Specific jigs for the welding of the frame
- Ed Korda : A machining expert
- The Luger breechblock adapted for the .45" cartridge
- Sights are produced from scratch for any Luger model
- The Luger in .22" Magnum caliber

Our other ebook available :

- The Luger Mechanical features (US $5.95)
- The DWM Lugers (US $5.95)
- Aimed Point Shooting (US $3.95)
- The Nagant revolvers (US $4.95)
- The Savage 1907 pistol (for free)
- Firearms and Related Topics Bibliography (for free)

http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/ebook/liste01.htm

Our main goal is always to provide you a credible source of information in a
highly demanding field.

H&L Publishing (belgium)
I checked out their site before and they seem to have some nice information. They will let you get their Savage 45 Automatic Pistol ebook free. The Luger book costs $5.95. If you get it, let me know how you like it. Thanks,

BigG
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o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC

o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain

o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey

o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC
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Old June 28, 2001, 03:40 PM   #8
Dr.Rob
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Thanks for all the input guys. I have a few weeks to "try" before I buy and I have to say there are some things I now understand.

Its a 42 not an S/42.
It has a military barrelproof mark.
It does not have a letter in the serial # (so maybe its a first run or last run in the series?)

While the Luger has a rep for being "finicky" I was suprised at how robust the action is. The steel is heavy and the gun is solidly built. And talk about a magazine that is HARD to load.

I know also understand the origin of the 9mm vs 45 argument. When loaded a luger and a 1911 weigh about the same. The luger can't feed hollowpoints and in over all size the luger is THICKER and the sights are tiny. The luger points very fast (rather like my ruger mk 2) and fits my hand very well.

I still have to shoot it to decide if its worth it.
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Old June 28, 2001, 05:49 PM   #9
Dr.Rob
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Here it is.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg luger1.jpg (22.3 KB, 127 views)
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Old June 28, 2001, 08:41 PM   #10
James K
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That is a nice looking Luger, but the dated 42 code guns are fairly common. By that time, they were using a tank blue rather than the old rust blue, so those pistols are darker than the older guns. You say there is no letter, but I believe that that funny mark under the serial number is the letter.

The toggle marking is the 42 code for Mauser. They also used S/42 and (later) byf.

It is hard to tell from a picture, but it sounds like a nice gun and not an inexpensive shooter. A pic of the front of the grip frame would help if you can get a closeup.

Gesichert literally means "made safe" so the safety is on when the word is exposed.

HTH

Jim
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Old June 28, 2001, 09:00 PM   #11
BigG
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OK, I will share the minimal knowledge I have... the Mauser Luger is nothing more than a DWM/BKIW Luger. Mauser was owned by that time by Loewe, just as the other two companies were. The same machines were used to produce all of em, including the elusive Simson and Krieghoff. It was the owner's way of keeping the equipment in use. The biggest difference iin the variously branded pistols is the rollmark or stamping on the toggle, as I remember.

Not being a collector, I didn't know there were 42 Lugers and S/42 Lugers, however, the date of 1939 would indicate to me that it was a gomit contract, not a commercial pistol. Nothing commercial was produced in those days, unless you were the equivalent of today's Bill Gates. The depression was on and A. Hitler was doing his best to create prosperity by attacking Poland and France. They had been secretly stockpiling anything that would shoot for many years prior to 1939. Any questions?
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o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC

o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain

o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey

o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC
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Old June 28, 2001, 11:48 PM   #12
C.R.Sam
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I have to nitpick my own post re S/42 marked Lugers.

S/42 with comercial proof marks, dated 1938 was indeed made for a commercial contract, a few hundred made.

However, there were three other varients with the S/42 toggle marking. Many thousands made.

Lugers.....cool and confusing

sam
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Old June 29, 2001, 01:11 AM   #13
BigG
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Dr. Rob: The letter is cursive, therefore it may look almost like a scratch compared to the digits. For example, I had one with an "L" prefix. It looked like a little oblong loop. Not as prominent as the serial number. HTH
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o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC

o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain

o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey

o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC
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Old June 1, 2011, 10:49 AM   #14
juangomez
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I that this pistol is not to luger, but am no another forum that treats the subject



This pistol to mauser is the weapon but wanted and looked for by the collectors of mauser. It is a Mauser pistol JOSEPH NICKL calibrates 9 mm Parabellum made in Oberndorf. But I do not have but data like the numeration, the systems of mechanisms and other data. As if there is another illustrious unit of another collection. If it appears its image in some publication or we are before the presence of a landmark in findings. Thanks Juan

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452961
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Old June 1, 2011, 03:32 PM   #15
gyvel
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Quote:
If all original it would range from bout 400 for a 60 percenter to 650 for a 95 percenter. Made by Mauser.
I think you are looking in a very old book. My Fjestad Blue Book is already 4 years old and shows that variation at $1550.00 for 95%.
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Old June 1, 2011, 03:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
This pistol to mauser is the weapon but wanted and looked for by the collectors of mauser. It is a Mauser pistol JOSEPH NICKL calibrates 9 mm Parabellum made in Oberndorf. But I do not have but data like the numeration, the systems of mechanisms and other data. As if there is another illustrious unit of another collection. If it appears its image in some publication or we are before the presence of a landmark in findings.
The OP of this thread was inquiring about a P08 Parabellum produced by Mauser during WWII, and not referring to a Nickl designed handgun as manufactured by Mauser. Josef Nickl had nothing to do with the design of the Parabellum pistols, to the best of my knowledge.

I told you in another thread that there is a photograph of a very similar Nickl designed prototype in .45 calibre in the 1958 publication, The World's Guns.
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Old June 1, 2011, 05:25 PM   #17
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mauser NICKL 9 mm Parabellum

Hello

the quote seems to me little, since in they cowan auctions to see Web site http://www.cowanauctions.com/auction...x?ItemId=93441 has a high value very enormously but.

The pistol is totally authentic and original. Furthermore this in good state, lamentably this is a photo of bad quality. Of I throw the other unit, so that they are two with different sitemas from mechanisms this in better state.

The caliber is 9 mm Parabellum and not of date WWII but during or subsequent to the WWI (between 1916 and 1920).

The Engineer JOSEPH NICKL was to designer of mauser company and head of the group of tasks of installing and of enabling the machines to make in Czechoslovakia first rifles to mauser Czech and the first CZ that denominated VZ-22, VZ-24, VZ-27, etc. Soon NICKL return to Germany to work in the trigger of the M712 pistol.

Greetings hope that information can pass me. I feel much
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Old June 2, 2011, 11:07 AM   #18
Mike Irwin
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OK, this is an ancient thread, a decade old.

There was NO reason to bring it back up just to ask a series of unrelated questions.

Closed.
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