The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 19, 2015, 10:13 AM   #1
adamBomb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2015
Location: coastal NC
Posts: 342
Gun and Kids at home

For those that have kids. What do you do with your guns at home? I have a 3 month old, 2 yr old, and 4 yr old. My wife is MAKING me keep them unloaded + locked up. I just bought a FAS1 safe and am going to mount under my bed or in closet but they are still unloaded. So what are others doing? Are you guns locked away + unloaded? I have a home alarm system, which could buy me some time/or scare away intruder. Would they be safe enough in my fas1 safe to keep loaded? My home defense gun in a .357 revolver so its not a quick load like a semi. I have a taurus pt111 semi but i just dont trust it for self defense.
adamBomb is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 11:14 AM   #2
Whirlwind06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2006
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 942
I keep everything locked up except my carry guns which are on me while I'm awake and in the bed side drawer while I sleep.
Whirlwind06 is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 11:30 AM   #3
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 5,167
I think that locking them up is wise. It is a game of probable outcomes and I think the probability of a toddler finding a gun and harming themselves or others is higher than a home-invasion/break-in.

The quick-access safe (biometric?) would be a good compromise, but perhaps have one downstairs and leave the gun there until you go to bed then take it up with you.

Whirlwind's option is of course pretty good if that would work with you as you can control where the gun is and who can access 24/7.

I opened a thread about the same topic a while back: have a look if you're interested.
__________________
When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Any idea that relies on murder for its survival in intrinsically weak.

Last edited by Pond, James Pond; September 19, 2015 at 11:49 AM.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 11:35 AM   #4
str8tshot
Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2014
Posts: 96
I have raised kids for 25 years. I still have 2 at home, aged 9 &11. All my guns are loaded and available for quick access, unless we are leaving for a weekend trip or something. Then I unload and lock up all that stay behind. I have taught my 5 kids to respect guns from a very early age. They all know not to touch them unless needed. And all would let anyone know when they are violating a safety rule.
My 11 year old shoots with me in IDPA and 2gun competitions. My 8 year old isn't quite big enough to handle a full sized handgun yet, but when he is he will also be shooting competitions with use. We have been shooting together since they have old enough to handle the .22 pistols and rifles.
My belief is that if you remove the mystery from the guns, and safely expose children to them at an early age, the kids will not want to play with them, nor allow others to do so. Quick example: I left my carry gun in the holster on the counter once while I got something out of the car. One of my kids saw it and stood guard over it until I came back in. He also let others know it was there and to stay away. He was like 8 at the time.
Your wife may want them all unloaded and locked up. You will need to work through that in your own way.
str8tshot is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 11:37 AM   #5
tynman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 320
I have the same problem but what I did was made the guns part of the house. (not the forbidden fruit). When I come home form the range I go over the rules of handling weapons and then I clean the weapons on the kitchen table. The first few times they were amazed now its no big deal. My wife still wont let me take the 2 older ones to the range yet (9 and 11) but I will be taking them next year.. But with my home defense I do have one loaded and hidden where they cant reach it if they try to get it without a chair or a ladder. Which by then my wife or myself will see what they are doing and stop them. But the rest are locked up in the safe, the guns themselves are unloaded but the mags are fully loaded. Good luck with such a small baby its hard to talk to the wife at that stage they dont want to hear it.. I know mine didnt...
tynman is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 12:03 PM   #6
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 8,116
We have several lock-boxes secured in readily accessible, but hidden, places around the house. Each uses a touch-key combination which can be easily worked without looking. Each lock-box contains a loaded gun, extra ammunition and a flashlight.

If the gun is secured in a lock-box and unauthorized access prevented, I see no reason for the gun to be unloaded as well. The real issue for me is being safe handling and moving around with a "hot" gun. That's the reason for Four Rules of safe gun handling:
  1. All guns are always loaded.

  2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.

  3. Keep you finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

  4. Always be sure of your target.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 12:43 PM   #7
adamBomb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2015
Location: coastal NC
Posts: 342
Thanks all. I will definitely teach the kids about guns but at 2yrs and 4yrs they just cant be trusted. They do 'know' if they see a real gun to not touch and tell an adult. My wife hates guns so its tough. I will show them mine when they are ready. Maybe another year.

I just got this new safe though and I am pretty sure no kid under 10 could get in. By that age my kids should know the rules and have shot my guns. I guess I could always keep my revolver loaded, in the safe, but put a bolt lock on it with the wheel out so that it has another means of making her feel better - essentially they would need to pick the safe then pick the bolt lock. With it like that I could probably get ready in 30-45 secs and with my home alarm that should be more than enough time. If i trusted my pistol that would easy too because i could just keep the mag separate, so maybe i just need to get a pistol that i fully trust like a sig or a glock. When I got the original pistol I was a poor college kid and just wanted something to take to the range not really to carry/defend with.

My new safe I just got is a FAS1, so its got a 5 digit punch code. No electricity or anything required. My project this weekend is installing it. Probably my closet as I can put it on the top shelf which should keep the kids away from it.
adamBomb is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 12:50 PM   #8
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,116
"...at 2 yrs. and 4 yrs. they just cant be trusted..." They can if there are consequences for getting into da's stuff.
If the kid is taught about firearms, even at 2(likely take lots and lots and lots of repetition), they stop being daddy's mysterious toys. It's when they're told no, but not why, that daddy's toys get really interesting.
"...scare away intruder..." Think dog/puppy. Criminals tend to fear 'em. As daft as that sounds. Really friggin' good early warning system too.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 03:05 PM   #9
leadcounsel
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2005
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,119
I'm not a parent, but have friends who are. Many people fear that a toddler is going to break into a lockbox, learn to how to load a gun, take off the safety, rack the slide (which some adults have trouble with) and pull the 5 pound trigger and shoot someone. While home invasions are rare, so are kids shooting themselves or others.

And if you survived a home invasion, you'd likely feel quite bad that you were unable to prevent any of the consequences of same.


I'd feel quite comfortable with Frank's approach. Lockboxes with guns, ammo, flashlight around the home would be fine. There are also things called life jackets which mount to studs and lock a long gun stored vertically on the wall.

I'd also figure out if the 4 year old can reach high enough on a chair to access a long gun stored on hooks above the closet door, for instance.

Also, when they can understand, they must be taught about gun safety as others have chimed in.
leadcounsel is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 04:05 PM   #10
72-cj5
Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 2013
Posts: 61
I keep all my guns locked up other then my carry gun and it stays on my top shelf loaded and ready... But I'm the only one in my family that can reach it. My wife can if she's on a chair no kids though even on chair and on top of that I have tought my 7 year old to never touch any fun related stuff unless I say so not even empty mags
72-cj5 is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 04:26 PM   #11
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,693
My daughters are 26 and 28. They grew up with guns in the house, one is a good shooter and the other less avid but safe and adequate, so I think I did OK, if I may be immodest for a few moments.

When my kids showed curiosity about my firearms I took it as a teaching opportunity, like I did almost everything else about which they showed curiosity. They learned about science because their dad is a veterinarian. They learned about music (and both became exceptional musicians) because we had music in the house. They love reading because my wife and I read to them nearly every evening and had them read to us when they could. Car trips were pretty entertaining - we talked about the geography we were passing through, read long series of books aloud, listened to music of several genera, and I remember one time when my wife and the two girls spent a segment of time perfectly tuning their water bottles to play a major chord together.

In the same way, they learned about firearms simply because I had them. I neither forced the firearms on them nor forbade them - I simply satisfied their curiosity in an age-appropriate manner. In that way, they learned that guns could hurt people if they were handled inappropriately, but they were safe and even fun when you did the right things. Once they were old enough, they received open invitations to join me at the range. Neither were interested very early on, but both accepted the invitation before they were out of high school, and shot enough to know what they liked and what they didn't.

Part of what they grew up with was the knowledge that dad's guns were locked up for safety, that locks kept people with less knowledge from accessing the guns and doing something unsafe. They also knew that at least one gun stayed with their dad during the day and would be kept loaded and stored in a quick-access gun box at night so that their dad could protect them if something bad happened. We didn't dwell on it, because we didn't want them growing up afraid of every shadow, but we also made sure they realized there was evil in the world that sometimes required defense.

For locking up unused guns, gun safes are best. Lock boxes provide adequate security against misuse and some security against theft but little to no protection against fire. Small padlocks on gun rugs can keep kids and most adults (those with at least some feeling of fear of being found out in the few minutes it takes them to defeat them) from accessing firearms. I feel strongly that some measures should be taken by responsible owners to keep firearms from being accessed by kids. The judgement of even the best kid is immature, and it is absolutely inevitable that your kids, the very best in the world, will have friends over who have not had the benefit of your sterling parenting skills. (Tongue planted firmly in cheek.)

Summary: Raise them right but take measures to keep them and the friends that will inevitably visit from making a regrettable and tragic mistake.

Last edited by TailGator; September 19, 2015 at 04:31 PM.
TailGator is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 07:54 PM   #12
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 6,248
Quote:
"...at 2 yrs. and 4 yrs. they just cant be trusted..." They can if there are consequences for getting into da's stuff.
If the kid is taught about firearms, even at 2(likely take lots and lots and lots of repetition), they stop being daddy's mysterious toys. It's when they're told no, but not why, that daddy's toys get really interesting.
Absolutely not so. Anybody with any training in child and adolescent behavior knows that this just doesn't hold water. Yes, there are the occasional kids that can be trusted like this but most kid's minds just don't work they way.
Doyle is online now  
Old September 19, 2015, 08:01 PM   #13
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 1,539
All of my guns, ammo and reloading equipment are in a small room with a locked door. My wife calls it a sewing room, which I think it was meant to be, but I call it my War Room. No minor children at home any longer, but now with grandkids running around, it still stays locked.
Mike38 is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 08:17 PM   #14
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 6,182
There is a solution that combines the fastest access, the maximum child security, AND is also one of the cheapest to implement; but few people choose to wear a gun around the house despite that.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old September 19, 2015, 10:28 PM   #15
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,572
If unauthorized persons are around, guns should be secured.
If a gun is behind a lock, I don't see a safety need to unload it--it's already locked and only accessible to authorized users.
If you can't or won't keep it locked, separating the ammunition is sensible.
raimius is offline  
Old September 20, 2015, 01:23 AM   #16
b.thomas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Posts: 378
Start gun safety training early would be one thing along with some good locked storage. My two sons were shooting about age 5 and had hunter safety class about 12.....................They also knew what would happen if the did "play around" without my permission too!
Lots of love and a firm hand always works best.
b.thomas is offline  
Old September 20, 2015, 02:30 AM   #17
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,925
Quote:
Absolutely not so. Anybody with any training in child and adolescent behavior knows that this just doesn't hold water. Yes, there are the occasional kids that can be trusted like this but most kid's minds just don't work they way.
Oh, so the expersts say....... Either every single one of my 5 are all "exceptional", or your wizards of smart are full of crap. I think the latter is more likely.

"Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it." -Proverbs, 22:6

Teach them that guns are noisy, dangerous tools from an early age, and that messing with other people's stuff without asking and getting permission has immediate consequenses.....

They all learned gun safety from an early age, and have their own guns, even. None of them have misused them.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old September 20, 2015, 06:40 AM   #18
2damnold4this
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 1,782
Your guns should be secured or under your direct control. I don't think it would be a problem to have a loaded gun in your lock box or on your person. If your wife objects, you could keep your revolver in the lockbox unloaded with a few speedloaders.
2damnold4this is offline  
Old September 20, 2015, 07:30 AM   #19
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,406
Quote:
I will definitely teach the kids about guns but at 2yrs and 4yrs they just cant be trusted.
We never found this to be the case. Then again, I started with them handling their own, real firearms, as soon as they could hold them. Both were shooting thier .22's at 4, and had "shot" a bazilion rounds in dry fire, on the living room floor, before their first live round.

I always felt safer with my kids with a loaded gun in their hands, than I did many of the adults we were often around and shooting with.

As far as the lock boxes, dont bet on the kids not getting into them. I didnt use that type of security, as the only loaded weapons in our house, were what I was wearing, and a shotgun in an electric car rack that was mounted by the front door. The switch on that, was separate from the gun and hidden, and would have taken both kids to activate and remove the gun, which never happened. When they were older, and could reach it, I showed them how it worked, and they told me they never did know where the switch was.

My youngest son was always fascinated with locks, from a very young age. I saw him methodically go through combinations on the small "locker" type locks, until they were open, and it usually didnt take him to long. He also had picking standard locks with picks down pat before he was 8. If kids are determined, figure they will get it done.

The main thing is to get them on board as early as possible, explain things openly, and constantly allow them to handle and shoot them. Worked great for us, and we never had a lick of trouble.
AK103K is offline  
Old September 20, 2015, 07:39 AM   #20
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 3,079
My kids are taught the 4 rules and so was I.....if you leave guns out or accessible, they are being handled....maybe safely, but that is a risk.

I keep my guns in a big safe, in a gun vault or on me. Gun vault and holster are loaded always...big safe sometimes loaded and sometimes not.

This has proven safe for 20 years.
Nathan is online now  
Old September 20, 2015, 07:54 AM   #21
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 6,248
http://brainconnection.brainhq.com/2...for-teenagers/
Doyle is online now  
Old September 20, 2015, 09:12 AM   #22
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,925
Yeah, Doyle, your wizards of smart can do all the studies on feral children that they want to: GIGO.

All teens may well be more inclined to follow their emotions ..... well disciplined children will do what they are supposed to do.

The average teenager today "knows more" yet is less capable than kids the same age were 100 years ago, due in large part to our society ignoring the wisdom of the ages in favor of more "progressive" approaches.....

Lock up your guns, Lock up your ammo, in case your kids classmates come over...... but it is a far better plan to instill safety, personal responsibility and an implicit understanding of cause and effect in your kids than to hope they never runa cross an unsecured gun: Guns are out there. Unsafe people are out there. They WILL encounter them. They had best know how to handle those situations.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old September 20, 2015, 09:41 AM   #23
Mokumbear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2005
Posts: 696
You may want to check your State's laws.

In my State, here is how it reads. (YMMV)
Pretty clear.


790.174 Safe storage of firearms required.—
(1) A person who stores or leaves, on a premise under his or her control, a loaded firearm, as defined in s. 790.001, and who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor’s parent or the person having charge of the minor, or without the supervision required by law, shall keep the firearm in a securely locked box or container or in a location which a reasonable person would believe to be secure or shall secure it with a trigger lock, except when the person is carrying the firearm on his or her body or within such close proximity thereto that he or she can retrieve and use it as easily and quickly as if he or she carried it on his or her body.
Mokumbear is offline  
Old September 20, 2015, 10:08 AM   #24
Smoke & Recoil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: East shore of Lake Michigan.
Posts: 414
Try it this way.....
Kids in the home and curious, SURE THING.
Intruder in the home, CHANCE.
__________________
If everyone valued my opinions...we wouldn't need forums.
Smoke & Recoil is offline  
Old September 20, 2015, 10:26 AM   #25
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,925
Quote:
Kids in the home and curious, SURE THING.
That's just the thing: they should not be curious about that gun. They should KNOW that gun will produce a very loud bang and punch holes in stuff ... and that in the house is no place for that to happen .... AND exactly how to keep that from happening.

They learn that a stove is HOT in the same fashion. They don't monkey around with a hot stove because they are curious. They know and understand that it can and will burn them if they don't respect it.... or at least they know that if their parents will do their job and teach them that...... too many parents prefer to keep their kids ignorant of things that can harm them by removing all potential threats from any possibility of crossing paths with their kids ....
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.21967 seconds with 9 queries