1:10 inch twist 308 most accurate bullet?

Hello123 · March 31, 2006, 08:58 PM

What do you all think would be the most accurate bullet weight and type for this twist in 308?

VUPDblue · March 31, 2006, 10:25 PM

168gr Sierra Match King HPBT Moly Coated...

308SORRELS · March 31, 2006, 10:31 PM

I would start with 150 or 165 grain bullets and try a couple of diffrent brands even . My local gun shop will set up a variety pack with 6 of each bullet for a nominal price depending on the caliber as to the price for 30 cal I think it is around $25 but you get 115 rounds and it is a lot of fun to play with. I have also seen these variety pacs on E- Bay

ribbonstone · March 31, 2006, 11:07 PM

Think the 168gr, HPBT MAtch bullet (hold the molly) is proably going to be the most likely for the accuracy title reguradless of the barrel twist rate. That 1:10 might be worth trying heavier weight bullets...slower start speed, but they tend to hold on to what they start with better, so the down range ballistics are very good even with the slower start.

HSMITH · March 31, 2006, 11:50 PM

168 MatchKing here too, hold the moly. Don't overlook the Hornady Match bullets and the A-Max line, they are making some really fine bullets too.

Bullet94 · April 1, 2006, 02:31 AM

You might check out Berger (expensive) -

http://www.bergerbullets.com/catalog.htm

I'm using 175gr moly SMK's in a 1/12 twist.

270Win · April 1, 2006, 04:49 AM

The only guy I know with a 1:10 twist barrel prefers the 175 grain.

Pointer · April 1, 2006, 07:18 AM

I agree with the 165-168 match BTHP's

It seems that the optimum weight is at about 165...

The heavier bullets will hold course better at longer ranges so you may want to try the 175's as was offered by 270

The 150 is too light for most .30 caliber barrels, especially at 300 yards and up.

ozzy1038 · April 2, 2006, 12:48 AM

I would say 168 Sierra Match King HPBT. But try others as they may work for your gun. I just started loading for .308 and bought 168gr SMK, Hornady 168gr Match, and Hornady 165 BTSP. The sierra had the best group of .45" at 100yds. The hornady match was at .50". I believe better results could be gotten with a rear bag.

So start with the 168gr SMK. It is a proven bullet for the .308.

Jim Watson · April 2, 2006, 10:47 PM

At what range?
The 168 gr Sierra was originally known as the "International" because it was meant for 300 metre ISU shooting. It is ok to maybe 600 yards but some places don't even allow it on the range at 1000 because it drops subsonic and loses stability at .308 velocities.
I shoot the 175 SMK for F-class Long Range.

**Unclenick** · April 2, 2006, 11:52 PM

Jim has it right. The 168 SMK was designed in the late 50's. It was designed for 300 meters, and they got lucky in that it performs well out to 600 yards. But when I went through Gunsite's PR1 class in 2000, 168 grain SMK's were in the PMC match we bought out there (to skip having to load and ship ammo). The one 741 yard popper shot we had across a valley couldn't be hit by anybody more than very occasionally. The 168's were not simply going sub-sonic, they were tumbling. This was confirmed a couple years later when I first attended the Long Range Firing School at Camp Perry. The firing starts at the 800 yard line. A lot of people brought 168's and couldn't stay on the paper. Those that did got reports of keyholing from the pits, so these bullets were sideways when they hit.

The 175 was designed in cooperation with the military to create a 1000 yard .308 bullet. It is a newer tangent ogive design. My first group with it at 800 yards was a 99-4X. It works great. The weight difference isn't enough to appreciably cut your powder supply. If that worries you, go to Winchester cases which have a so-called "solid balloon head" to create a couple of grains of extra capacity. Be aware these cases are nowhere near as consistent in manufacture as Lapua or Norma, so if you want high precision you will have to get a gauge setup and sort them for uniform wall thickness.

The 1 in 10 twist was in use by the military when they chose 172 grain boattails as best for match ammunition, first in 30-06, then in .308. Most of the M72 and old M118 bullets I have pulled have actually weighed in at about 174 grains. Samples from the two lots of 175 grain SMK I have also weigh in at 174 grains. The 168 grain SMK originally displaced the military 172 grain bullets in matches at 600 yards and shorter because their solid bases and superior jacket manufacturing consistency more than made up for any slight weight or shape drawback. With the 175 grain SMK now available, no compromise need be accepted.

Nick

Bullet94 · April 3, 2006, 12:27 AM

Jim Watson

Ever try Begers for F-Class?

L Puckett · April 4, 2006, 11:40 AM

Hello123,

Jim Watson and Unclenick hit it right on the head. The 1:10 twist is better suited to a 175 grn bullet (or heavier). The 168 grn prefers a 1:12.

The 1:10 causes to much rotation on the lighter bullet. The 175 SMK or 190 SMK need this twist to stabalize.

Bullet94, the Berger VLD's work real well, but introduce a whole new set of problems with Mag lengths VS bullet jump (distance to lands).

L Puckett

**Unclenick** · April 4, 2006, 06:27 PM

Bullet '94,

I've heard several people, including a fellow with the lab gear to measure it, that the Berger's are actually more consistent than the Sierra's. I will start using some 80 grain Berger VLD's this year, but only for single-loading at the 600 yard line. No way to get it in a magazine.

Nick

Jim Watson · April 5, 2006, 08:32 AM

Bullet94

I have shot some Berger flatbase bullets in other rifles and did not find them more accurate than SMKs. I do have some JLK VLD 90 gr .224s on order for that fast twist .223, though.

I think too much is made of the difference between 10 and 12 twists and you will really have to let the rifle tell you which is more accurate over a pretty wide range of bullet weights.

L Puckett · April 6, 2006, 10:32 AM

Bullet94,

Jim is right about twist rates, I have heard of people selling rifles "because they heard" the rate wasn't right. It will cause, (with the same speed) a 168 or 175 to behave differently, a miniscule difference that shows up at long distance.

The way to overcome the twist difference is simple, if you have a 1:10 twist and use the 168SMK, simply load the round to a lower node, if you have a 1:12 and use a 175SMK, load to a higher node, to obtain optimal accuracy.

Try a couple boxes of Federal Gold Medal Match 168 and 175's or Black Hills 168 and 175's and see what she likes the best, then load your own.

For what it's worth,
L Puckett

March 31, 2006, 08:58 PM	#1
Hello123 Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2005 Posts: 571	1:10 inch twist 308 most accurate bullet? What do you all think would be the most accurate bullet weight and type for this twist in 308?

March 31, 2006, 10:25 PM	#2
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,978	168gr Sierra Match King HPBT Moly Coated... __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

April 1, 2006, 02:31 AM	#6
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	You might check out Berger (expensive) - http://www.bergerbullets.com/catalog.htm I'm using 175gr moly SMK's in a 1/12 twist. __________________ PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

April 1, 2006, 07:18 AM	#8
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	I agree with the 165-168 match BTHP's It seems that the optimum weight is at about 165... The heavier bullets will hold course better at longer ranges so you may want to try the 175's as was offered by 270 The 150 is too light for most .30 caliber barrels, especially at 300 yards and up. __________________ . "Political correctness is tyranny with a happy face." Charlton Heston 30-06 FOREVER

April 2, 2006, 12:48 AM	#9
ozzy1038 Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Posts: 110	I would say 168 Sierra Match King HPBT. But try others as they may work for your gun. I just started loading for .308 and bought 168gr SMK, Hornady 168gr Match, and Hornady 165 BTSP. The sierra had the best group of .45" at 100yds. The hornady match was at .50". I believe better results could be gotten with a rear bag. So start with the 168gr SMK. It is a proven bullet for the .308. __________________ Lead Thrower

March 31, 2006, 10:31 PM	#3
308SORRELS Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 38	I would start with 150 or 165 grain bullets and try a couple of diffrent brands even . My local gun shop will set up a variety pack with 6 of each bullet for a nominal price depending on the caliber as to the price for 30 cal I think it is around $25 but you get 115 rounds and it is a lot of fun to play with. I have also seen these variety pacs on E- Bay

March 31, 2006, 11:07 PM	#4
ribbonstone Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2006 Posts: 179	Think the 168gr, HPBT MAtch bullet (hold the molly) is proably going to be the most likely for the accuracy title reguradless of the barrel twist rate. That 1:10 might be worth trying heavier weight bullets...slower start speed, but they tend to hold on to what they start with better, so the down range ballistics are very good even with the slower start.

March 31, 2006, 11:50 PM	#5
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2002 Posts: 2,019	168 MatchKing here too, hold the moly. Don't overlook the Hornady Match bullets and the A-Max line, they are making some really fine bullets too.

April 1, 2006, 04:49 AM	#7
270Win Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: Damascus, Maryland Posts: 921	The only guy I know with a 1:10 twist barrel prefers the 175 grain.

April 2, 2006, 10:47 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 9,674	At what range? The 168 gr Sierra was originally known as the "International" because it was meant for 300 metre ISU shooting. It is ok to maybe 600 yards but some places don't even allow it on the range at 1000 because it drops subsonic and loses stability at .308 velocities. I shoot the 175 SMK for F-class Long Range.

April 2, 2006, 11:52 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,163	Jim has it right. The 168 SMK was designed in the late 50's. It was designed for 300 meters, and they got lucky in that it performs well out to 600 yards. But when I went through Gunsite's PR1 class in 2000, 168 grain SMK's were in the PMC match we bought out there (to skip having to load and ship ammo). The one 741 yard popper shot we had across a valley couldn't be hit by anybody more than very occasionally. The 168's were not simply going sub-sonic, they were tumbling. This was confirmed a couple years later when I first attended the Long Range Firing School at Camp Perry. The firing starts at the 800 yard line. A lot of people brought 168's and couldn't stay on the paper. Those that did got reports of keyholing from the pits, so these bullets were sideways when they hit. The 175 was designed in cooperation with the military to create a 1000 yard .308 bullet. It is a newer tangent ogive design. My first group with it at 800 yards was a 99-4X. It works great. The weight difference isn't enough to appreciably cut your powder supply. If that worries you, go to Winchester cases which have a so-called "solid balloon head" to create a couple of grains of extra capacity. Be aware these cases are nowhere near as consistent in manufacture as Lapua or Norma, so if you want high precision you will have to get a gauge setup and sort them for uniform wall thickness. The 1 in 10 twist was in use by the military when they chose 172 grain boattails as best for match ammunition, first in 30-06, then in .308. Most of the M72 and old M118 bullets I have pulled have actually weighed in at about 174 grains. Samples from the two lots of 175 grain SMK I have also weigh in at 174 grains. The 168 grain SMK originally displaced the military 172 grain bullets in matches at 600 yards and shorter because their solid bases and superior jacket manufacturing consistency more than made up for any slight weight or shape drawback. With the 175 grain SMK now available, no compromise need be accepted. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

April 3, 2006, 12:27 AM	#12
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	Jim Watson Ever try Begers for F-Class? __________________ PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

April 4, 2006, 11:40 AM	#13
L Puckett Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2002 Location: Mid-Tennessee Posts: 150	1 in 10 Hello123, Jim Watson and Unclenick hit it right on the head. The 1:10 twist is better suited to a 175 grn bullet (or heavier). The 168 grn prefers a 1:12. The 1:10 causes to much rotation on the lighter bullet. The 175 SMK or 190 SMK need this twist to stabalize. Bullet94, the Berger VLD's work real well, but introduce a whole new set of problems with Mag lengths VS bullet jump (distance to lands). L Puckett

April 4, 2006, 06:27 PM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,163	Bullet '94, I've heard several people, including a fellow with the lab gear to measure it, that the Berger's are actually more consistent than the Sierra's. I will start using some 80 grain Berger VLD's this year, but only for single-loading at the 600 yard line. No way to get it in a magazine. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

April 5, 2006, 08:32 AM	#15
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 9,674	Bullet94 I have shot some Berger flatbase bullets in other rifles and did not find them more accurate than SMKs. I do have some JLK VLD 90 gr .224s on order for that fast twist .223, though. I think too much is made of the difference between 10 and 12 twists and you will really have to let the rifle tell you which is more accurate over a pretty wide range of bullet weights.

April 6, 2006, 10:32 AM	#16
L Puckett Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2002 Location: Mid-Tennessee Posts: 150	Twist rates Bullet94, Jim is right about twist rates, I have heard of people selling rifles "because they heard" the rate wasn't right. It will cause, (with the same speed) a 168 or 175 to behave differently, a miniscule difference that shows up at long distance. The way to overcome the twist difference is simple, if you have a 1:10 twist and use the 168SMK, simply load the round to a lower node, if you have a 1:12 and use a 175SMK, load to a higher node, to obtain optimal accuracy. Try a couple boxes of Federal Gold Medal Match 168 and 175's or Black Hills 168 and 175's and see what she likes the best, then load your own. For what it's worth, L Puckett