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Old March 30, 2006, 01:41 PM   #1
Handy
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Posts: 8,785
Getting frustrated with the conduct on TFL

More and more frequently I am finding the type of discourse on this forum has gotten brutally aggressive to the point that it is sometimes impossible to converse about the posted topic without wading through all sorts of off topic attacks and put downs.
Quote:
No spamming, trolling, flaming or other personal attacks, be they acrimonious or veiled in humor. If you take issue with a Member's position, by all means speak your mind.
As you might be able to tell from the language above, a certain amount of healthy debate is part of this forum's existance. That debate might be terribly pedistrian (9 vs. .45), or on a level that only a machinist or lawyer could expect to follow. And that's good, because it serves the intellectual needs of whoever wants to participate.


It seems like lately the spirit of the above quoted rule has gone out the window. In an effort to avoid outright insults some members have turned to off topic criticism to denounce the poster instead of addressing the actual position. Some general examples:

A poster states his dislike for a brand of handgun, and is treated to a chewing out because he used the term "clip" incorrectly.

Someone is told that they obviously have no idea what they are talking about because they misspelled something.

A poster states a dislike for some Republican political move, and is called either a gun grabber, liberal or "Democrap".

Negative remarks about post counts granting some sort of status.

One poster denounces another's posts by announcing to the thread that the party is a "hater" or is displaying some sort of other illogical and continual behavior.



Is this how you want your forum? It doesn't have to be all hugs and kisses, but it is getting to the point that you can't even talk about something without having to post retractions and resumes for the right to have an opinion or even ask a question.

For my part, I am sometimes fairly aggressive, but I make it a point to attack the logic and factual nature of the material posted. Often, I'm shown to be wrong, and that is a large part of how I have amassed much of the knowledge I have now. Debate is a great way to get down to the core of something, but I'm seeing far less debate and much more plain fighting and put downs on TFL.


I'm am not calling for more rules, more bannings, and certainly not even more inconveniently locked threads. But a little more honesty in how we conduct our bickering would be appreciated by those who post and those that just want to read something of interest on the topics available here. Thank you.
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Old March 30, 2006, 01:53 PM   #2
Maui19
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This place is tame compared to the golf forums

All kidding aside, forum postings are often made without the kind of restraint used in verbal communication. Your reminder is a good one.
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Old March 30, 2006, 02:05 PM   #3
Jericho9mm
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Sounds to me like Handy is stumping for moderatorship, mind you this isnt a personal attack but it seems that the current mods are doing a fine job. there are those who seem to still get through and make asses of themselves and try to bring others into an unreasonable arguement but i think the mods have already fixed a lot of the problems with their numerous recent crackdowns.

Granted there probably arent any full-time moderators on TFL so swift action sometimes cannot be taken but i think the more intelligent members seem to avoid being drawn into stupidity. i believe there is also an ignore list enabled on the board so use it if needs be. either way i love this board and honestly prefer it to any other gun board that i have been on.
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Old March 30, 2006, 03:06 PM   #4
Ben Swenson
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Quote:
As you might be able to tell from the language above, a certain amount of healthy debate is part of this forum's existance. That debate might be terribly pedistrian (9 vs. .45), or on a level that only a machinist or lawyer could expect to follow. And that's good, because it serves the intellectual needs of whoever wants to participate.
Obviously you don't know what you're talking about.
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Old March 30, 2006, 03:09 PM   #5
Jayb
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I think a lot of the disagreements on shooting related forums stem from the fact that many folks fail to realize how personal the shooting sports are. I couldn't imagine being bold enough to recommend what another shooter should buy to enjoy the sport. Relating my experience with a particular item or firearm is one thing, but arguing about my choice, or someone elses choice is a waste of time.

"what's the best CCW weapon?"
"what's the best way to clean?"
"what's the best ammo?"

The best, is what works for the individual. The responses to some of these questions, usually start out with a personal preference. Personal preferences of one who has been shooting for 50 years,(in my case) are influenced by experience. I'm not an expert in anything......except my own experience. What works for me won't work for everyone else, and I wouldn't want it to. Think how boring that would be.

A little respect for the individuality of us all will go a long way.

Didn't mean to preach, but the older I get the more I tend to ramble.
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Old March 30, 2006, 03:23 PM   #6
invention_45
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Handy

You're never going to get that to happen. There seems to be a very wide variety of mentalities on this board. Which I happen to like. Some of them don't agree with my thoughts. Works for me.

This is actually a pretty good board. I haven't ever been bothered by moderators whose posts would suggest they have the biggest bones to pick with my opinions. The only moderator who ever deleted any post I made seemed to be in agreement with the concepts I was espousing. I think he did it more to preserve my credibility than to punish me.

This tells me that the moderators try to err on the side of freedom of speech. And that explains why they sometimes have to do crackdowns. It keeps things lively and interesting and discourages egregious offenders.

Hope you stay with us.
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Old March 30, 2006, 04:06 PM   #7
Derius_T
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Yes Handy, while some infantile stuff does occationally happen, I don't think its as bad as you are making it out to be. Some of it is annoying, but we can ignore those posters can't we? And while I do believe that we have to be respectful, courteous, and helpful, I do not believe that we must uphold some holy principle just because we are gun owners. We are not above critisism, wit, sarcasm, and sometimes a little hostility. That type of diversity is what makes this board great, instead of just another gun forum.

That being said, I do agree that being overly rude, pointless cursing, vulgarity, racism, ect. should not be tolerated.....
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Old March 30, 2006, 04:12 PM   #8
SIGSHR
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I haven't seen any more rudeness or vulgarity or fatheadedness on TFL than
I have seen in person, I have found shooters, collectors, etc to be rather well
mannered and considerate, in 38 years of shooting and collecting I have only
once encountered rudeness and hostility from another shooter. Everyone has
their opinions, and like food their likes and dislikes, and like food, likes and dislikes in firearms are very personal and really cannot be rationally analyzed.
I don't like asparagus or broccoli. End of statement. In handguns I don't
like aluminum, titanium, polymer frames, if it's not steel, I don't want it. I
don't like Glock style triggers, "safe" triggers, DAO triggers. This makes me
a classicist according to one poll posted here. I also like English 3 speed bikes
which are somewhat old fashioned in the world of cycling. Regarding caliber wars, they seem to be more a matter of fashion and taste and a desire by the
manufacturers to seel us something new rather than fill a real need, but again, like a chef's creations, it is the market and the buying public that should decide.
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Old March 30, 2006, 05:21 PM   #9
Leif
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I thought the 'pet peeve' topic already had been done.

Handy, I'm going to have to disagree with you here to a certain extent. Granted, no internet 'environment' ever will be perfect, at least in the sense that all of its users always communicate with civility. However, I've seen what I feel to be marked improvement since last fall. At that time, people joked about shooting or deporting those of different political persuasions than themselves and engaged in a much greater degree of rabid namecalling ('Demosocialist', etc.). I don't see nearly as much of that now.

The L&P forum does seem to draw in a few more of the 'interesting' folks who make brief, histrionic posts just to lash out at some perceived opponent or injustice than do the other forums. But with the advent of the 'Clownies', this seems to have subsided to a degree.

Actually, it just occured to me that there seems to be a lot of navel-gazing going on lately (no offense intended, Handy), with all the threads about pet peeves, new sections for scenarios, writing styles, etc.
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Old March 30, 2006, 05:32 PM   #10
WIL TERRY
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Whine, Whine, Whine....

If you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
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Old March 30, 2006, 05:47 PM   #11
JMag
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I've said it before...give some folks a gun and a computer and all the sudden they are armed geniuses.



Common courtesy is not so common in many of life's arenas.
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Old March 30, 2006, 06:02 PM   #12
dakotashooter2
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Posts: 498
Just about every forum I have been on cycles through this type of behavior. It usually last till a few members get tired of it and leave the forum then things seem to settle down for a while again. You have to learn to not take things so personally. While someone may continually make personal attacks against you that person really does not know you and very likely would be reluctant to do so to your face.
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Old March 30, 2006, 09:50 PM   #13
Pointer
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I don't care what your opinion is...

Unless it is couched in INTELLIGENT terms and from a position of KNOWLEDGE...

Damn, I hate long, windy, holier-than-thou thread-starts...
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Old March 30, 2006, 10:23 PM   #14
Lycanthrope
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Posts: 1,752
I don't see it.

This forum and The High Road are the two most civil gun forums on the net....by far.

Just surf Arfcom for a frame of reference (Yeah, I'm a member, but you can't argue the tone is different over there!)
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Old March 30, 2006, 10:52 PM   #15
TheBluesMan
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Leif's comments stand out to me above all others.

The "pet peeve" thread has been done already (in Gen. Disc.). This is considered a duplicate.

Closed.

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