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Old April 5, 1999, 10:24 PM   #1
thaddeus
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The clerk accidentally gave me small pistol primers for MAGNUM reloads for my 9mm reloads. Can I use these anyway without any danger?

thanks,
thad
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Old April 6, 1999, 12:11 AM   #2
Mal H
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Thad - that's what you should be using. I know I haven't seen a quarter of what the wonderful world of reloading offers, but what, pray tell, is a MAGNUM 9mm load?
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Old April 6, 1999, 12:17 AM   #3
thaddeus
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I guess I haven't looked carefully in the past, but I would have sworn that my old primers I ran out of were simply "Small Pistol Primers" without the "Magnum" status.

I'll try out these new ones and see what happens...

thad
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Old April 6, 1999, 12:28 AM   #4
Mal H
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Thad - Wait... I misread your post. I thought you had been given "small pistol primers" and wanted to use them for your magnum reloads. Now I understand that you received "small pistol magnum primers". No you shouldn't use them without backing down your powder to the starting (minimum) load and work up from there. But, a much much better idea would be to go back to the shop and get the correct primer, a 9mm case is too small to be experimenting with. If you haven't used any of the SPM primers the dealer might exchange them. However, some dealers refuse to take back primers or powder for obvious safety reasons. Keep them for the 357 magnum loads you will undoubtedly be making in the near future.
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Old April 12, 1999, 12:19 AM   #5
zot
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isn't power pistol powder flattened ball?
I'd think you'd get better ignition in short barreled 9mms with magnum primers,usally use
magnums with slow ball powder, its slow and
mag gives it a quick launch, and brings pressure up fast too, don't know a starting load, can't find my Speer book at the moment
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Old April 12, 1999, 01:25 AM   #6
Mal H
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zot - Better ignition than what? There are only two states of ignition: ignited or not ignited. It's the pressure in the casing that causes the powder to continue burning at a specific rate. If you find that Speer recommends a magnum primer in their book for 9mm or even 38 Super, you need to send the book back, it's a misprint. I think you got the words reversed in your last sentence where you say "... and brings pressure up fast too ...". This should read "... and brings pressure up too fast ...".
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Old April 12, 1999, 04:23 PM   #7
zot
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your right Mal H , no mag primers for 9mm,
I just know to use them with H 110 and
Winchester 296, there are some Ball powders
which might get a better start with magnum
primers since the flame is longer and hotter
and powder would be burned before bullet exits barrel,powders like HS-6 or 7, if ya
look in Speer manual 11 it has many loads
for 38 super using mag primers, in the new
Speer 13 manual they REALLY did away with alot of loads that I've used for years,
especially their .357 mag loads are 2 or 3
grains lower than max in load manual 11,
I guess they'll change everything in manual 14?
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Old April 12, 1999, 07:38 PM   #8
Mal H
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zot - Yep, you're right about using mag primers with powders like H110/W296. But, these are used in MAGNUM casings only. In general 9mm powders will be on the fast side, even AA #9 is a little too slow to be used in 9mm.

You're also right that the load manuals are becoming more conservative in the listed loads. Someone knowledgeable on this subject recently posted a good reason for this. I apologize for not remembering who it was, but the gist of the post was that the mfg's are now using more accurate pressure measuring instruments instead of the older copper crusher method. They are finding that some of the previously recommended loads exceed safe levels and are changing their manuals accordingly.

I worked for DuPont for a while, and as anyone who works for that company will attest, you become very paranoid about safety in everything you do. Frankly, I hope I never become any less paranoid than I am now.
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Old April 12, 1999, 09:02 PM   #9
Dennis Glover
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Thaddeus,
Haven't you bought a reloading manual yet. I sure wish you would before you hurt yourself of someone else.
I have a few senior moments form time to time but reading the label once in a while might give you the answer to many of your questions.
Hey I'm not saying don't ask. There are mny knowledgeable people out here that can answer your questions. However spend some time hitting the books there is a world of information that will help.
I have found that if the manual don't say it I don't do it. By the way one manual is not enough get at least 3 different ones on reloading. Ask your local reloading supplier as to which he would use.
Please be careful I like to see some one with your interest in this great sport.
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Old April 12, 1999, 09:58 PM   #10
Tim Brooks
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Hey Thad, if what Dennis G. says is true and your a little short $$$s try these sites for reload info/data
www.hodgdon.com
www.alliantpowder.com
www.reloadammo.com/index.html
good luck & be careful

------------------
Naturally, when one is intensely interested in a certain cause, the tendency is to associate particularly with those who take the same view. THEODORE ROOSEVELT “1899”
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Old April 18, 1999, 02:53 PM   #11
dundee
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the difference between a magnum primer and a regular primer for some companies is how much of the primer mix they put in the primer cup. Over the years Handloader magazine has published some tests of primers. The results show that some companies regular primers are as hot as other companies mag primers. The primer cup may also be thicker to withstand higher pressure and this can cause uncertain ignition with pistols having weak or 'tuned' hammer springs. If I could not exchange the primers for the correct ones you can probably use them with no problem. As said before reduce the powder charge to the minimum listed and start up from there.
The crimp you use might be more important with a mag primer generating more initial pressure and starting the bullet out of the case before best ignition is estableshed.

Yes there is a difference between ignition and bad ignition. If you chrono your loads and have a weak hammer fall the SD of your loads will be higher. Handloader magazine had an article about insuring your firing pin spring was strong enough for good ignition.
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Old April 18, 1999, 06:39 PM   #12
Walt Welch
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Thaddeus; you grieve me deeply. I don't check the list for a while and return only to find out that you have once again strayed from the path of righteousness and light.

NO, GOSHDARN IT, YOU CAN'T USE MAG PRIMERS IN THE 9x19. Period. End of discussion. Don't even THINK about it.

The 9 x 19 is a 'small pot' cartridge, meaning it is very small in capacity relative to the caliber. This means it will be VERY sensitive to ANY change in the components or the way that they are assembled. One powder company purposely seated bullets 0.035" deeper than normally, and the pressure went from an acceptable 28k cup to over 50k cup. Which is grossly over pressue.

You don't need a magnum primer to ignite small amounts of fairly fast powder. Even if it is ball powder. I know. I have loaded thousands of rounds of 9 x 19 with HS-6, a ball powder.

In short, brasshopper, magnum primers in the 9 x 19 will do you no good, and will probably do you much harm. Return your feet to the correct path. Use the components in the data from the powder companies EXACTLY as given. Your graying mentor, Walt
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Old April 18, 1999, 08:09 PM   #13
Dennis Glover
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Walt,
You have away getting right to the point with Thaddeous. I do believe one day we may hear no more from him and that will be very sad.
Still if he would spend one evening reading the first chapters of a good reloading manual he would have answers to many of his questions.
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Old April 18, 1999, 09:11 PM   #14
Mal H
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Come on guys, give him a break. Now he's starting to bleed about the eyes and ears from the thrashing. The point was made well over a week ago, I doubt that thaddeus is even reading this thread any longer.
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Old April 26, 1999, 07:20 AM   #15
finger1
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thaddius, did you mean you bought winchester large pistol primers for. standard or magnum pistol loads with the new surface finish for improved sensetivity in the blue pack insead of the old white box? Has anyone used these I havent the counter man sold them to me I want to use them for .45 dont want magnum primers for that. Until I can spend time woking up these loads I will wait.
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Old April 26, 1999, 08:43 AM   #16
Cheapo
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The new Winchesters' "surface finish" consists of leaving off the nickel plating.

I believe there is a slightly greater "crushability" of the primer cup, without that thin layer of harder metal on the cup.

Have used them interchangeably in loads developed with earlier WSP primers, and have detected no difference in either primer fill-out from pressure, or in chrono'd speeds. It appears the "new" element may be only a tiny advantage for those who have marginalized their firing pin strikes with bad trigger jobs (revolver) or replacement springs (both pistol & revolver).

I see it as a cost-saving move with an incidental benefit. Also makes it harder to distinguish your reloaded brass from the next guy's factory stuff--so much factory doesn't use nickel primers, that's what I'd look for when retrieving mine at the range.

Enjoy,
Cheapo
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Old April 26, 1999, 10:14 PM   #17
Mal H
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finger1 - Yeah, what Cheapo said. I am on the 2nd 1000 of a case of the "new" surface finish WLP's, and I find no difference in performance. I chrono'ed the same 45 Colt load, same brass, same bullet with old and new primer and there is no statistical difference between the two.
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Old May 16, 1999, 09:08 AM   #18
Bill Hebert
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I'm new to reloading - six months or so to be
exact. Bought my first box of 2,000 223's after getting tired of 100-500 lots. Anyway, I started and had good results with CCI primers. The last time I went to buy primers, no CCI's just Remington's. I told the clerk Iwanted small pistol primers and he said the Remington 5 1/2's were the same. I didn't feel right about it -but I didn't know. Before I loaded my 9mm's, I called the folks at Speer (just to be sure). The 5 1/2's are magnums. The store wouldn't take them back, so I just chalked it up to learning and set them aside. P.S. I used them yesterday- I'm already loading and shooting the heck out of my new S&W 357 mag. Better be safe than sorry when dealing with reloading....
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Old May 16, 1999, 01:34 PM   #19
Mal H
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Bill,
You were absolutely right to double check. I have found that some, not all, gun/reloading store clerks are a great source of misinformation. In this case, it was somewhat dangerous misinformation. Sounds to me like you need to get yourself a reloading manual or two if you haven't already done so. Speer, the folks that potentially saved your gun, have a very good one as do all the major component manufacturers.

Now that you've been bitten by the reloading bug, you'll always have something to do to while away the hours when you can't be shooting your reloads. It's a never ending cycle. Have fun.
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Old May 16, 1999, 09:55 PM   #20
Bill Hebert
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You betcha - especially since my nine year old son shoots the heck outa me. I have several reloading manuals, and for the life of me I can't understand why Remington would go to a number system when everyone else uses the common sense "small pistol large pistol etc." method. I tried calling Remington but I guess they are too big for a little guy like me.. Thanks Hornady and Speer for being there when I need you.
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