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Old April 1, 2006, 06:04 PM   #51
Harley Quinn
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Jeff, I was noticing an article about the Minute Men

Is there some one you can contact and find out about helping in some way?

Since reading your article and then browsing around and reading about the planning of the shut down of America during the month of May 1-5.
I figure I have to check it out some more and figure what I can do to assist.

I have not been someone who gets into these types of problems just because of all my other years of service. But something needs to be done.

Is Green river in an area that is in peril regarding this problem?

Any hints or ideas?

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Old April 1, 2006, 08:50 PM   #52
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Harley,

There are a lot of Minutemen operating out of So. California. You can go to their web site and hook up with them on a watch. If you want to do more than just stand watch with binos, then there are other groups that are operating legally but have more of a "hands on" approach.
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Old April 1, 2006, 09:47 PM   #53
Harley Quinn
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Jeff thanks

I was in the Dojo working out to day and got into a conversation with a couple of guys. Their thought is they were here first so it is their right. LOL

I made a couple of statements and one got up and left the Dojo. Tension is in the air all over about this. I have an easy going personality as a general rule but, once a Marine alway's a Marine. If you get the drift.

If they are going to try and shutdown business's for a week and cripple the nation. Like I have said before "It is War" .

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Old April 2, 2006, 01:56 PM   #54
Harley Quinn
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Jeff, I just got some E-mail from a friend

He lives like, in a very hot zone.

He has so much admiration for the Minutemen it is hard to put it into words.

I have known this person for 45 years and he retired to the Green Valley area of Arizona.
He is very proud of the Border Patrol. Speak's of them very highly.
He and I have a very good history. Calls me Bumper, after the Copper in the Blue Knight series (Book by Joe Waumbaugh).

He confirms what you have said and I recommended him to get a Swat Mag. and read it, he is going into Tuscon just to get one at the Borders Books, hope they are not sold out.

I am going to get a subscriptin for him. I will get a hold of all that is necessary and let Rick know, so I can get it done. I am truly inspired by your article and what this friend of mine has to say.

I am really thankful for your concern and your article.

Keep up the work and thanks again.

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Old April 2, 2006, 09:19 PM   #55
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Harley: I got this forwaded message today. I don't know if there is any truth in it but it does come from someone who has been accurate in the past.



>> Watch the news on 10 April 2006. That day there will be another protest
>> in Phoenix by the pro-criminal alien forces.
>> Violence during the 10 April protest is EXPECTED. How much violence is
>> impossible to predict, but it could get very ugly, very quickly.
>> If the criminal aliens can put 20,000 unarmed protestors on the streets of
>> Phoenix to DEMAND that we Citizens "give" them our respect, then they can
>> certainly put 40,000 armed rioters on the streets when the Citizens tell
>> them all to go to Hell.
>> You have my consent to distribute this letter if you wish. Spread the
>> word.
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Old April 2, 2006, 10:24 PM   #56
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So what's entailed in this war-inciting 'shutdown of the nation'? Unswept walmarts? The temporary hiring of a few more white construction workers? Untrimmed hedges? (your unsatisfied wives? sorry, deperate housewives on the brain)
The thought of the many thousands of immigrants pouring over the border bothers me as much as the next white guy but I don't feel that being a 'minuteman' would be accomplishing much more than ******* in the wind and looking like a racist fool while I'm at it. You can't possibly make a difference sitting around with binoculars tattling on some mexicans...why not go driving around to farms and orchards during harvest or constuction sites to call INS...Or even having everyone show up to your congressmen/senators office all at once politely asking to discuss reasable legislation fixing the fences, coming down on the companies hiring them, and getting the ones here into the system, payin their taxes, and placed firmly into a lower service class where everyone thinks they belong. (and lets not even discuss the idea of teaching them engrish, that'd be just silly) (oh, and enforcing the existing laws, talk about that one!)

Re: the upcoming violent april protest, have any of the other (stupid) walkout/protests been violent thus far? I haven't heard anything. And my understanding was that most of the protests were by hispanic AMERICAN people, 'alien forces' don't want to draw any more attention than terrorists do. Also, my (limited) understanding of the situation was that most people protesting were either stupid schoolchildren who don't have an adult at home to beat them for skipping school over this OR legitimate hispanic AMERICANS wanting their relatives to have the right to be here without constantly having to look over their shoulder.

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Old April 3, 2006, 12:22 AM   #57
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Quote:
Orig post by NedreckSavant If they were white people waving Canadian flags and speaking french would you wish them all to hell? (they're speakin that unamurican freedom hatin sissy language! to hell with em!)
Sadly NedreckSavant has a good point. I doubt it seriously if we would take it on with the same ZEAL!
Jeff and others wouldn't it be safer more humane and more effective to seek the illegal American Employers rather than those willing to give their lives to have a better life for their families? Cut the demand you'll cut the supply!
Thanks!
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Old April 3, 2006, 09:15 AM   #58
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I have lived with the legals all my life

Most of the ones I grew up with did not want to speak their native tongue.
They were in a land that they wanted and spoke the language of that nation.
Many knew but were not using it in public.

Since they were friends we would converse in their language and I tried hard to learn it because I use to go to TJ an Ensenada and go fishing and lobstering.

I was in construcion for many of my years and it is saturated with them, they worked hard and played hard. I had many good times.

Now it is different, they don't want to be one of us and have a good life they want the country back and are in the process of doing that.
I remember the problems and the workers of the fields, the union was created to help and lead for them then the leader died and his family has turned it into a corrupt and ugly issue. Sad.

Yes, if the Canadian "snowbirds" came here and wanted to shut down the country and create havoc.
They would get the same treatment that I think will happen if it gets out of control.
Don't you realize, the only reason they are exixting is because we are a country with laws and we law abiding don't do what they are doing.

It will be ugly believe me. One of the reasons I like the freedom of choice and religion and speech and to own a firearm to protct myself against invaders.

Rimrock, Yes it would.

It is the coyote and drug dealers, I am talking about as far as the big problem, they are getting more and more vicious with every moment of this time frame coming to a head.
The coyotes "their own people" are the ones who are killing them and leaving them in a hot shed, or truck or trailer to die.

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Old April 3, 2006, 10:05 AM   #59
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As far as the Phoenix thing, I doubt there will be any violence even though that email came from a pretty good source.

As for cutting the demand. You're right. There are a couple of groups that are focusing on that aspect of the illegal trade. In fact, some of them are getting pretty aggressive in their tactics of exposing the employers.

Once they pass a law that legalizes all the illegals to be in the country you will see the work ethics change. In fact, there is already talk about the hispanics forming their own labor unions of sort to raise the pay rates and benefits. The current illegals don't make too much of a fuss about this since they want to fly under the radar. The ironic part about all of this is the employer who is know pushing to legalize the illegals is not going to like it too much after it happens.
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Old April 3, 2006, 11:57 AM   #60
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NedreckSavant,
Quote:
And my understanding was that most of the protests were by hispanic AMERICAN people, 'alien forces' don't want to draw any more attention than terrorists do.
The 500,000 individuals that marched in L.A. was estimated to be 75% illegal. If you would have bothered to read the articles on the various web sites for the main stream media (L.A. Times, MSNBC, etc, etc) about these protests you would have noticed that virtually all of the people interviewed were either illegal themselves or had close family that was. This isn’t exactly surprising since the bill they are protesting had nothing to do with making it more difficult to immigrate legally, but only imposed harsher penalties for being here illegally (or hiring illegals). That would of course involve researching rather than just spouting whatever you feel like…
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Old April 3, 2006, 05:08 PM   #61
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Ahenry, can you provide a link to that 75% assertion? I like to think I stay reasonable current with the news and such but the only large marches I'd heard about were in the 10's of thousands by boneheaded students...Are only a quarter of the students legal?
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Old April 3, 2006, 08:26 PM   #62
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The recent march in LA was suppose to have been nearly 500,000 according to the news. No way to tell how many were illegal, legal, aliens, extra terrestrials, or just professional ****-stirrers like so many of these marches attract. Hell, I didn't know it until watching a recent show on Link TV that there are actually people who are professional protestors. They show up at various events just because they enjoy protesting. How do folks like this afford the time to do this type of stuff when the rest of us are having to make a living?
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Old April 3, 2006, 11:09 PM   #63
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Once they pass a law that legalizes all the illegals to be in the country you will see the work ethics change. In fact, there is already talk about the hispanics forming their own labor unions of sort to raise the pay rates and benefits. The current illegals don't make too much of a fuss about this since they want to fly under the radar. The ironic part about all of this is the employer who is know pushing to legalize the illegals is not going to like it too much after it happens.
I bet once they get legal, they will be ****** at the next wave of illegals that undercuts them on wages.....
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Old April 4, 2006, 12:38 AM   #64
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I've been following this thread since jeff sent me the link,i'll make this offer,show up at my shop and i will take you down to the war zone,bring warm clothes and hot weather wear,the climate change can be drastic, prepare for long hours of tracking and driving on bumpy trails,i prefer you carry a 45,a colt if at all possible ,we all do so mags are interchangeable.I guarantee you will be enlightened to what goes on,My jeep is loaded all the time and will drop what i'm doing at a few hours notice,i'm sure jeff will vouch for me and what i know.Has far as april 10th i really don't think you'll see a big turn out although the mayor of phoenix sure goes out of his way to welcome the illegals and make them feel at home.
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Old April 4, 2006, 07:19 PM   #65
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If anyone is interested in seeing the true border then take Paul up on his offer. Paul probably knows more about the desert and the border situation than anyone I know. There are a LOT of guys out there that claim to have spent a lot of time on the border combating and researching this problem but if I were going to be on the border for any stretch of time, Paul is the guy I want working with me. Again, take him up on his offer and see first-hand what's going on down there.

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Old April 4, 2006, 09:09 PM   #66
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paul, you working outta az or ca or tx? What exactly do you guys go off and do?? Sofar I've got, waiting, looking around, occasional calling some border patrol hotline when you sees some peoples. Educate me on why more people should be doing what you're doing and what exactly you're doing other than going offroading and looking for trouble (for lack of a better phrase).
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Old April 5, 2006, 09:13 AM   #67
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NedreckSavant,
Quote:
Ahenry, can you provide a link to that 75% assertion?
No, not off the top of my head. I did read it in one of the many articles I’ve read on this issue, but I can’t recall which one it was and I’m not interested in going back through everything I’ve read just to provide a source for this. Feel free to discount the “75% illegal” assertion. However, it should be abundantly clear to any sort of critical thinker that a large percentage of the protesters have some sort of illegal status. All you have to do is look at the banners they were waving (you know, the ones said “we are not criminals”) or even look at what they are protesting;

1) Tougher penalties on entry without inspection,
2) Tougher penalties on those that employ illegal aliens,
3) Harsher penalties on smugglers,
4) More law enforcement personnel and infrastructure, which only deals with the illegal aliens,
5) A border fence, the POE’s are still open to visitors and immigrants it’s just the area between the POE’s that get the fence. You know, that vast area where illegal aliens choose to enter America.

I’ve read the bill as passed by the house, there isn’t anything in it that a legal immigrant would be worried about. Not one single provision impacts them or their friends or families in the “old country” that might want to immigrate here. The bill being protested is a 100% illegal alien bill that doesn’t change anything for those that wish to immigrate legally. You know, those “Hispanic American people” you claimed made up the vast majority of the protestors. There is really no good reason to imagine they are protesting a bill that doesn’t impact them. The requirements to immigrate legally are the same. The requirements to obtain a non-immigrant visa are the same. This bill only impacts illegal aliens. Of course, if you read the bill you might have known that…

Quote:
I like to think I stay reasonable current with the news and such but the only large marches I'd heard about were in the 10's of thousands by boneheaded students...Are only a quarter of the students legal?
In border states and along the border region it’s very possible that a large number of the school students are illegal, not three quarters of the students, but many of them. I’m not interested in debating that tangent however. The fact of the matter is that even just the simplest of research would have shown that there have been many protests, some of them very big, and many of them haven’t been students.
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Old April 5, 2006, 10:31 AM   #68
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I read 700,000

In the Los Angeles area, but who wants to quibble over a few hundred thousand people.
LOL. Just enough difference to lose the battle if you missed by that number.

Packing 45's as in 45 ACP, oh my. One hundred year old round still hanging on, only in America. LOL

Well good luck guys.

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Old April 6, 2006, 02:21 AM   #69
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I was listening to the radio today and there was a reporter from down in Mexico saying that the Mexican papers were reccomending that if you were going to cross the border now is the time to do it.........


havent found out much info on this
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Old April 10, 2006, 03:04 PM   #70
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Hehe
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Old April 15, 2006, 01:55 AM   #71
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Just got back from Ramadi (Yay!) and one of my first stops was the PX to pick up the latest SWAT. I was almost giddy when I saw the border article. Great job! Especially the info on Mr. Maupin; I never thought I'd see those in a prominent magazine. I've been waiting a long time to see this subject covered well someplace other than Soldier of Fortune. As a lifelong resident of Arizona with many friends actively involved with the border the severe lack of attention and skewed reporting never failed to **** me off.

A little story from my past. One of my closest friends has worked with Chris Simcox for years, and invited me along to help with one of the border watch efforts. Keep in mind this was before I enlisted, when they called themselves Civil Homeland Defense. Had a great time, and caught 30+ illegals. The ROE's were insane, however. We couldn't tell them to stop, we couldn't stand in their way, we couldn't follow them if they ran etc etc. No long guns, either. Since when is it illegal to stop a criminal? Only on the border.

I don't know why Nedreck Savant keeps saying he's as upset as "any white man" would be. Race has nothing to do with this. My wife is descended of legal Mexican immigrants and supports the Minutemen etc %100; ditto her mother.

Two things struck me about what he said. If the law about immigrating legally would mean nothing to him, what about the laws regarding smuggling drugs, theft, or murder? Many illegals are after the cliched "better life" but many are achieving this by smuggling massive amounts of drugs and illegal weapons. Many more are violent criminals fleeing the Mexican justice system who continue to murder, rape, and steal when they are in this country. Every day American citizens and Border Patrol agents are assaulted and shot at. Every day hardworking ranchers on the border see their lives threatened and their property destroyed by illegals; if they try to defend themselves they're called racist and threatened with prosecution by our government. If a group of people were coming to your house every single day and breaking out your windows, setting your car on fire etc, wouldn't you want the .gov to do something about it or at least let you defend yourself?

The second issue is national security. I know people who've been in on the capture of illegals from Marxist S. American countries, terrorist friendly Arabic nations, and more European countries than I knew existed . When OTM's are caught, they're released no questions asked and told to return for a court date. You can imagine how well this works. If they can get tons of drugs across the border do you think a few suicide vests or containers of Sarin would be tough? Not to mention that many very violent street gangs are composed mostly of illegals [MS13 ring any bells]?

Ok, sorry if that was a bit disjointed. Today is the first day of leave since I got back and I just finished the drive from 29 Palms to Mesa, AZ; I'm pretty exhausted. I'll be talking to a friend who's been on the border a lot lately with the Minutemen and other related efforts. I'll try to get some more fresh intel. Thanks again to Rich, Denny, and Jeff for having the balls to do this story; please don't let it be the last!
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Old April 15, 2006, 03:15 AM   #72
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Balog, Welcome back man, hope you don't ever have to go back.

Well, after mulling things over, I've changed my position. Now, before you call me wishy-washy or whatever hear me out. I honestly believed that here in tucson the land I stand on is our land. I felt that I've got just as much right to stand here as anyone else. I thought it wrong for a man to stand before a stranger and deny him passage somewhere else not knowing anything about who he is, what he's doing, where he's going or when he'll be back.

Since then I've come to further understand what the minutemen are doing and why they're doing it. I understand that they're having to do it because noone else is (suffeciently, what exactly DOES the border patrol need to do it? Why haven't the funds/manpower shown up yet?). We need much tighter borders and a more effective border patrol, but we also need an immigration system that doesn't make getting in equivalent to winning the lottery.

To the minutemen out there, please forgive my borderline racist insinuations, I had this silly thought that the minutemen consisted of a bunch of angry old white men with nothing better to do. I understand that you probably have a million things you'd rather be doing than trying to **** in this wind (sorry for equating that to what you're doing but if all the border patrol is doing is bussing them back to mexico does the boulder not roll back downhill the next day? I remember mytholgy, this was someone's hell!).

Hey, we're in the same shoes, I knocked up one of those crazy hispanic chicks too! Coincidentally she's all in favor of leaving their bones in the desert as warning to the others. I want everyone to know that I've got no right to draw any racist lines in the sand, not when my lil 'krackabean' looks that much like me...I lived my entire life hearing 'cracka' being the verbal equivalent of the n-word for white people. Only after moving to az did I realize that it was simply a fact of life. White people act white. Black people act black. Wonder what's going to happen one day when everyone's procreated till we're all the same color? Will borders matter as much when people on both sides of the fence are the same? Is this such a problem in canada?

I'm sorry that I started out with such a hippy ideal thinking that as north americans we were all in this together to a degree, that what's good for mehico is good for the us, and vice versa. I'd kinda hoped that a good strong leader could see this devastation as an opportunity to bring everyone up a notch. I believed that there lay a solution that could leave reasonable parties happy while being reasonably beneficial to everyone. Now I'm simply in favor of the fence/mine/fence solution, beyond that...my head's going back in the sand.

goodnite everyone, the kool-aid's makin me sleepy and my foil hat's on a bit too tight...

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Old April 16, 2006, 11:34 PM   #73
Balog
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Wow, that's one of the more vitriolic and sarcastic things I've seen outside of a Fred on Everything column. But hey, if you can't beat 'em with debate berating 'em with verbal poison is the next best thing.
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Old April 17, 2006, 11:17 AM   #74
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Race has everything to do with it.

That is the problem.

They are telling all the old white folks it is time to leave. Get out of California it is ours now and we are taking it back. (by having many babies and populating your country with our offspring).

Respectful persons in the government that are Mexican are saying that in speech's all the time.

If you don't believe me just read the papers in the larger freepress of America like L.A. Times and Sacramento Bee.

Don't confuse an occasional Marriage between cultures and what is happening here.

Race is what it is about, and that is what it has always been about.

History will tell you that, now it is race and religion, which is the second most bigoted thing.

Educate yourself and read a few of the editorials that have been published of late.
Happy Easter, hmmmm... If you believe in it, that is.

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Old April 22, 2006, 02:02 PM   #75
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NedreckSavant:Well you just described how you do it ,but you don't have to look for trouble, it will come to you,The Border patrol operates in the same way,you drive around in 100degree heat look for tracks and chase them down,by chasing them down i mean you put your gear on and get your butt in the grass,then you call the BP and tell them where their at,WE assist the BP when they need help and ask for it,almost every one has thanked us,except one in alot of years of doing it,We also report drug activity,stash houses ,safe houses and pickup points.Alot of the Border Patrol are out of their environment in the AZ. desert,since they come from all around the country to do their work and don't recognize things that are out of place,i've spent 27 years around the border and have friends that i help that have that much time and more,but unfortunately the illegals keep coming and the problem grows worse.
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