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Old March 19, 2006, 01:24 PM   #76
fairview mick
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Thanks for the best post of this sectioon!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old March 19, 2006, 01:51 PM   #77
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For all intents and purposes....this is a foolish statement....with all due respect, do you think anyone on TFL would ever rob someone? We are supposed to be the GG's not talking about becoming BG's...
you've got to be kidding I hope?

let me put it in simple terms for some.

"put yourself in the BG's shoes and images what is going through his head."


sheeeesh. I guess I really need to spell things out. Like I actually thought he was going to go out and rob someone...
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Old March 19, 2006, 01:53 PM   #78
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Unfortunately, there is a small fringe minority who gets a permit just for the Cool Factor, and puts little thought into the mechanics or the responsibilites of using it.
That is almost what the theater "accident" sounds like.
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Old March 19, 2006, 02:21 PM   #79
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Old March 19, 2006, 02:44 PM   #80
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hey I have a question for thsoe that do carry. I figured I'd just ask here rather than starting another thread.

What do you all wear on a daily basis in order to conceal your weapon? I only ask this because I typlically just wear a t-shirt and jeans to work (well and pretty much anywhere else) which would make it hard to actually conceal a weapon. Do you just wear longer shirts or a sport coat type of jacket?
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Old March 19, 2006, 02:57 PM   #81
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Mark, your buddy wasn't an idiot for carrying in a theater. He was an idiot for carrying it in a jacket pocket without a holster.
Most of us who knew this guy and knew much about handguns thought the same thing. It is my understanding the Glock went off while inside his jacket pocket when he picked up the jacket. The incident is not a fabrication, it did occur.

This thread has lasted a long time and I have learned some things reading the posts. I hope I have not offended anyone. The "afraid to leave home without a piece?" was a little strong. Sorry about that.

I don't carry mostly because I don't want to be in the situation where I might shoot someone, or the responsibility of keeping the weapon secure. This might change if I experience something like some others have described in this thread. I served in VN '69-70 and since that time I have not really found myself in a life-threatening situation, unless you include snakes in the Alabama swamp while shooting Nutria.

The one place I lived where I might have wanted to carry was Washington DC.
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Old March 19, 2006, 03:28 PM   #82
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You're the one that brought religion into this, yet when someone gives valid theological evidence that your statement is totally idiotic you "refuse to dignify it". If you want to argue theology then pm me, if not, don't post if you're not prepared to admit you were wrong on occasion.
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Old March 19, 2006, 04:08 PM   #83
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First off let me say that how could he know that the movie theatre would be full of children and moms unless it was a family orientated movie focused on the younger generation?we don't know.I would not see the need to carry to this kind of movie,but yes I have carried to a movie theatre that was for the over 18 crowd.The theatre is downtown and not in what I would consider a great neighborhood.If you think that thugs and scumbags and people that have no respect for human life never go into a movie theatre your just kidding yourself.I have seen a few times people acting like animals with no respect for others.As for the way I carry,the gun is at my side,in a holster with the safety on.I do carry one in the chamber if I have an auto.Not glock bashing,but I personally don't like the whole safety on the trigger thing.I like having a manual safety.As others have said,you just don't know,terrible thing things happen when you least expect it and I like being prepared for it,so I carry when I can.
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Old March 19, 2006, 04:38 PM   #84
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First off let me say that how could he know that the movie theatre would be full of children and moms unless it was a family orientated movie focused on the younger generation?we don't know.
It was a Disney kids' movie. He was there with his own wife and kids when he shot himself.
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Old March 19, 2006, 04:40 PM   #85
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Why was the loaded gun in his jacket? Why wasnt it holstered on his hip? That whole incident was entirely his fault.
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Old March 19, 2006, 04:50 PM   #86
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But the remarks by the original poster were accusatory, and (falsely) 'superior'.
The person was a co-worker, not a buddy. And what he did caused a nearly fatal accident to himself and a child only a few feet away.
"
I only asked the question:"why would anyone do something like that ?" and "would you?"

Sounds like most of you would not.

As for the person who posted the quote above - I hope you have more common sense when you carry than when you post on TFL.
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Old March 19, 2006, 04:57 PM   #87
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I would not see the need to carry to a disney movie,clearly he was not thiking straight.As for carrying a loaded glock in your pocket,pointing who knows which way is very irresponsible.I sometimes pocket carry with a j frame.but it is in a pocket holster facing down and i am always aware of where it is at all time.With cc comes great responsibility and respect for the deadly power that you carry with you.
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Old March 19, 2006, 05:23 PM   #88
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I don't understand the logic. What difference does it make that he was in a theater? Are you saying that some of you lessen your guard any or, become any less responsible for you CCW just because there are no kids around? Im sorry, but I bring my CCW with me everywhere. I am equally carefull with my weapon when im at a kids party or in my room alone. In the end guys it comes down the person carrying the weapon.
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Old March 19, 2006, 05:24 PM   #89
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Well, you never gave the details of where the movie was, what kind of area, etc. None the less, I see no reason not to carry a gun, everywhere. It teaches discipline, being polite,
and being self-restrained. Also, I'm getting old.

God made man, Sam Colt made them equal.

I have a chance against a car full of gang bangers driving around, if I'm carrying. I don't if I'm not, and I boxed, and did martial arts most of my life. I'm not as fast as I used to be.

Ultimately, it comes down to the police cannot, nor are they required to, protect you. You are on your own.

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Old March 19, 2006, 05:40 PM   #90
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rha 600 what to wear

I got my CCW in January ,so the loose fitting flannel shirt has not been that conspicuous,still working on the summer carry attire.My answer to original questionis that the crime is getting closer to home
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Old March 19, 2006, 05:47 PM   #91
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rha,

As for carry techniques with just a t-shirt there's a multitude of threads open for search. Ankle, pocket, thunderwear/smartcarry are common recommendations. I conceal my Colt LW Commander just fine under a loose yet not sloppy t-shirt in an IWB holster and I know there are many others who do so as well. Typically I'll try to dress more around the gun (untucked polos, dress button downs, club/hawaiian shirts) but a t-shirt isn't that tough if you learn how to move and bend etc.

Since my CCW isn't a threat to anyone not a criminal (I know and practice safe gun handling and carry), and since it isn't particularly inconvenient for me to do so, and since there is no way on earth to predict what situations may become dangerous (Disney films, broad daylight and children are not absolute protection from evil unfortunately) I carry all the time. Have done so for almost coming up on 20 years now.

As for your "put yourself in the mind of the attacker" question. I would respond with a similar question.

When confronted by an armed man with no way to respond, are you really willing to trust that simple robbery is all he has in mind? After all, you can't stop him, so maybe he'll decide to take your wife and daughter along for a little fun since you gave in to his cash demand so easily.

Are you really willing to trade the theoretical risk your weapon might provoke a deadly reaction from a proven violent criminal for the perhaps more likely theoretical risk that someone willing to commit an armed robbery might be encouraged to go further by your evident harmlessness and inability to respond?

I would posit that the current apparent increase of robberies, home invasions and car jackings that have progressed into rape, kidnapping and murder by perpetrators (who often claim they did not have such in mind in the beginning but decided "why not?" on the spur of the moment) make that a VERY bad trade.

At least armed you control some options and an effective response.
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Old March 19, 2006, 06:15 PM   #92
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So some moron carried a loaded Glock into a theater in his jacket in such a manner where the trigger could be pulled and now it is supposed to be wrong for anyone ever to carry a gun about themselves into a theater or similar such supposedly 'safe' place? Nonsense. What about the DEA agent who carried his 40 caliber Glock into a classroom full of moms and dads and kids and shot himself in the foot just after pontificating his superiority to the rest of the room? Stupid people do stupid things. Drawing the conclusion that no one ought ever carry a gun into a theater from the original poster's described incident is just typical nanny state pandering to the lowest common denominator. Would I have had a gun in that theater? Yes, I would have because odds are I would not have had bodyguards to escort me to and from the theater in perfect utopian safety. You never heard of anybody getting murdered/raped/robbed going to or coming from a movie theater? One difference though is I am not a retard and my gun is not going to inadvertantly discharge. I carry a DAO WITH a manual safety on top of that and I am always 100% in control of the weapon. It does not get grabbed up on my way out as an afterthought. The guy who had his Glock discharge should be in prison for criminal negligence. He should not be allowed to again legally own, let alone carry, any typer of weapon let alone a gun.

And yes, as a previous poster articulated, I do not carry TO the theater or to church. I carry WHEREVER I am which happens to be sometimes in a theater or in a church. And for those pontificating not carrying on the job when against company policy you just try and not forget to ask during your next job interview if it is OK for you to carry a gun on the job and see how that goes. Employment is a necessity for most of us, not a luxury. And though I do respect the owner of the company's rights I also have to put my families best interest first which means getting murdered on the job, or on the way to and from the job, because I was defenseless is not an option. Is that employer going to raise my kids and take care of my family when I die because of their goofy policies?
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Old March 19, 2006, 10:00 PM   #93
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I don't care what the situation is: there are IDIOTS everywhere! If you carry safely, then carry it! Just because it was a Disney movie doesn't mean that a crime could or would not happen! I feel bad for what happened but geez, if ya carry a gun then you ACCEPT the responsibility!!!
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Old March 19, 2006, 10:30 PM   #94
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but again it goes back to what I said before about acting like a target.
I',m not sure what a 4'11 90 lb woman identifying and engaging a threat and successfully protecting herself and her son has to do with acting like a target. But the comment addressed the comment about kids shows being shown in daylight hours so why the need to carry in a theater
Quote:
lets say YOU are going to rob someone. it's dark, you don't know these people, you walk up, pull your gun and tell them to give you their money. while going for their wallets you notice one guy has a gun. you're already nervous as hell and tensions are high. you panic at the sight of this guys gun and the idea that he could shoot you and BANG! you take the first shot before he can.
I refuse to depend on the kindness of robbers.
If he gets close enough to go for my wallet I have already failed to utilize my primary weapon anyway, I am at his mercy either way
Quote:
"put yourself in the BG's shoes and images what is going through his head."
Here;s the kicker to my story.
The guy was an old acquaintance from an earlier life. Most of my friends from that time are either dead, in prison or on probation between sentences. while I never engaged in the violent activities that they went on to I do think like they do in many respects
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:27 PM   #95
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Was that really necessary?

I would appreciate it if in the future you would not make the assumption, that I am an idiot.

I just don't sit around looking at things from a BG's mindset...Do I make every attempt to anticipate a situation, before it happens? Of course, by all means..

But do I scrutinize every hypothetical situation that could happen? No, Not in the least...I have more important things to do with my time than contemplate the what ifs....

If you don't mind my asking...what situations or places do you choose not to carry, when you could?

I intend to carry when at all possible...I could never forgive myself if a situation occured, that I could have prevented by being armed.

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Old March 20, 2006, 07:58 AM   #96
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you should be thinking like a BG. thinking about where you park when you go to the theater, where you walk at night, what your dress is like, what your posture is like. All of that are things the BG is looking at when he picks a target so you better be thinking about them if you don't want to be one. Or at the very least increase your chances of not being one. I don't carry at all. i don't even care to. I'd have to buy an entire new wardrobe to conceal the gun in our endless summer. If someone wants my car, feel free. I get a brand new one thanks to the insurance. Want my wallet? here you go. At the very most I lose $40 and some time calling my CC company. Want to shoot me? Go ahead. then I don't have to go to work anymore. I am not one that goes around worrying all the time and I really don't go into any "bad" areas so the chances that I will come into contact with a BG is lower than average.

I think the original poster was trying to say that the risk vs reward of carrying in a theater full of kids wasn't justified. that chances of getting into trouble at finding nemo was a lot lower than having an accident at the same place.

Thanks for the answers on the clothing. It's always warm down here so I never really get the chance to wear a jacket or sweat shirt. And the t-shirts I have aren't long enough to cover a holster. I think I saw a "summer carry" thread someplace I'm going to go look for that too.
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Old March 20, 2006, 09:47 AM   #97
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CCW and why (sic)....

I posted in response to the beginning sentence as to "why a CCW....." It seems that the thread originator was not interested in why have a CCW as originally posted, but rather he wants to know if carrying a weapon to a movie theater with kids is appropriate...well, probably not...but somehow, the thread originator does not appear satisfied with the responses...maybe it's me, with Madcow and all, so how about asking what answer you are looking for, and perhaps some can accomodatewith an appropriate question.
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Old March 20, 2006, 01:05 PM   #98
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I still see a few too many posters who think carrying in a theater "full of kids" is inappropriate - WHY????

What the heck is so special about a theater playing a Disney movie that makes it so safe? Would it be 10X or 20x safer if it played only Disney movies in all 10 or 20 rooms? Would the bad guys be sure to leave it alone then? [What about Harry Potter?...is that a safe pic too?]

How do the bad guys KNOW I am going to see Nemo - to keep them from bothering me and my kids on the way to & fro, outside the theater, etc?

Why does my properly concealed and secured pistol suddenly become more dangerous because I am watching Finding Nemo with my kids and not Brain Eaters from Mars?

Why would someone think that unloading and clearing a weapon once you get...near the theatre? in the parking lot? just down the street? in the rest room before taking my seat? or worse - dressed at home? is somehow more responsible then keeping it where it belongs and keeping your mits off it?

What is it about a room full of kids that would make it less a target then other gatherings? Are malls safe? Schools? Denny's? McDonalds? You guys watch the news from places like Israel, Russia, etc where kids ARE primary targets?

Wake up people. YES be responsible. Be safe. Be smart. And DON'T assume the goblins will leave you and yours alone just 'cause you got your Mickey ears on. Even Nemo's dad had to step up & deal with the sharks - and he was IN the damn movie!
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Old March 20, 2006, 01:14 PM   #99
rha600
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read what I said in the last post about risk vs reward. that is what I think he was getting at when he said why would you carry in a theater full of kids.
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Old March 20, 2006, 01:22 PM   #100
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And the risk is????

Then I will ask this question..

How come an incident where some moron who is not responsible enough to know how to safely carry and conceal a loaded weapon ANYWHERE suddenly makes it irresponsible, or less responsible, for anyone else who knows better to do so?
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