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Old March 19, 2006, 08:46 AM   #51
WESHOOT2
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Darwin's concepts

I read this thread with great saddness, for "one of us" doesn't seem to understand the concept of "protect yourself at all times" (a phrase much dissipated over time).

It was 1977 and I can still hear my mom, "Do you have to wear that thing to church.......on Christmas?"

So I said the same thing then I'll say now: "Yes".

Always..........

The moral question raises its head: Who is ultimately responsible for your personal safety? If you've never known the fear then it can't be explained........
And I got two kids and one wife, too.......know what I mean?
Oh wait, she carries, too.
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Old March 19, 2006, 09:10 AM   #52
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If you don't want to CC, then don't.

People who don't want to carry...won't.

Most people that are afraid of guns...will not respect other people owning them, carrying them, or training with them. I know this, because I am the only person who owns, shoots, and carries of my friends and family.

I know of several instances where I have thought I might have to draw my weapon. It never ended up that way, but as stated so many times previous, it is my responsibility to protect my loved ones and myself.

Whoever said that "what if the attacker has a gun also" better understand, that's why I have a gun too. Deadly force requires a deadly force reaction. Too many of my friends have been robbed at gunpoint, in nice areas of town, and I will not sit and let that lowlife have the decision to take my life, another's life, or cause injury without recourse. If I get shot or stabbed in the process, so-be-it.

I will not let someone else decide what is right for me, nor I will decide what is right for anyone else, unless they have attempted to harm or take my life or those close to me. That is where my personal choice of carrying a weapon comes into play and I HOPE I never have to use it.

Predators are predators. Most people are good prey. I will not be easy prey. No matter what time of day it is, where I am at, or what I am doing.

Stay safe, shoot straight.
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Old March 19, 2006, 09:55 AM   #53
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I am still waiting for my CHP but......

I will carry for the same reasons I wear a seat belt, have smoke alarms in my house, lock my doors......

I would hate to get in a car wreck and think,"darn!, wish I would have had on my sealt belt", as the doctors pick glass out of my face and reset my broken nose. Same with a firearm, I would hate to be in need of one and have it be unloaded in my sock drawer.

So my question is why WOULDN'T somebody want to carry? We can't pick and choose when we might need a firearm or seat belt or smoke alarm.....
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:13 AM   #54
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It's nice to know my Threads are good for something!

I've been doing some surveys of my own especially since I saw your thread this morning. No, I wouldn't carry locked and loaded into a theater...well, not exactly...let me explain...

After conversing with the gunshop owner and the former state cop in my neighborhood...we've come to the following conclusions:

1- There are NO ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGES!!! only negligent!!!
2- Had the gun been properly held in a holster, such a N.D. could have been avoided.
3- Your friend probably just alienated a few parents against CC and guns in general.
4- If a person is not comfortable carrying locked and loaded, then carry either empty or with a blank in the chamber.

In all honesty for the first week, or until I feel comfortable, I will carry a blank in the chamber...While I know this may sound stupid...IMHO, it would be faster to fire a blank and then a first round than it would be to rack a slide.....
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:21 AM   #55
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After reading all of the previous posts, I feel bad for the original poster. He was simply asking a question and everyone jumped down his throat. I thought TFL was made in order to facilitate open discussion. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway,

As I was reading I couldn't help but notice how many people talk about carrying in church and have Bible quotes in their posts. Has anyone heard the phrase "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword?" It makes me wonder whether carrying is inviting more violence.


Think about the following example:

You're walking home from the movies with your wife and some punk pulls a knife on you. Your first instinct is to draw your weapon (and probably have your wife call the police). Problem solved right?

Well anyone who knows anything about crime knows at least these two things: 1.) Criminals often don't work alone. 2.) Anything law-abiding citizens can/will do, a criminal can/will do for the wrong reasons and without regard to safety.

If we apply those facts to the example above, the scenario might play out more like this:
You draw your weapon and point it at the knife-wielding punk, thinking he'll surrender his knife or maybe even charge you at which point you'll have no choice but to shoot him. Perfectly legal so far, too. Either way, you weren't aware of his 3 buddies in the car across the street. When they see you draw your weapon, they draw they're illegal sawed-off shotgun and fire at you to protect their friend. Only, instead of killing you, your wife goes down instead. But hey, you didn't get mugged right?

Don't get me wrong, I have a concealed carry permit and carry occasionally. But I feel like a lot of the posters in TFL forums are really over-simplifying real life situations. Everyone talks about pumping some bad guy full of lead should the need arise, but no one ever takes multiple gun-wielding attackers into account or the possibility that carrying may get not you, but someone you love, killed. Giving up a wallet seems a bit more sensible to me than "exercising the right and responsibility to protect my family" and getting someone killed.

When I was younger I was in a fight or two, but managed to talk my way out of many more. When I got my permit, my girlfriend was concerned that carrying a weapon would make me less likely to try to talk my way out of bad situations and I definitely see her point.

As they say, "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Food for thought.
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:33 AM   #56
WESHOOT2
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hungry?

Real life taught me to wear a gun; perhaps there are others posting with similar experience.

But the remarks by the original poster were accusatory, and (falsely) 'superior'.

FWIW, the first time I needed a gun there were six 'involved parties', plus l'il old me.


I have NEVER chosen a path of violence, but I've had it brought to me (why why why me?) more than once, and I learned, and I'm here.
Still.

And as I type this I have a gun in the pocket of the bathrobe I'm wearing.......know what I mean?


Judge my writings as a survivor, rather than just a poster, ay?


No, I ain't wearin' a tinfoil hat.
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:33 AM   #57
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The bible says an eye for an eye,how much water does your "quote" hold against the bible on church issues. We didn't jump down his throat, we told him what we felt and most did it in a fairly civilized conversational manner. Where does it say (in the bible) that it is morally wrong or against god to defend your self in church or elsewhere? I'm not meaning to make this a religious debate, just wanted to call you out on that. And as far as multiple gun weilding attackers go, if they come after you in armed numbers, wouldn't you rather defend yourself then let them kill you and do nothing about it?
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:44 AM   #58
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I carry because I'm a free man. Slaves, serfs, and subjects aren't allowed to keep weapons beause their masters fear them.
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:46 AM   #59
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Jumping down throats on TFL....

I am sorry, but I disagree...after some more exposure to TFL, I think you will agree that 99.9% of the posters do so in a respectful and curteous manner.
I have been a part of other Forums and have encountered the other .1% that is why I choose to be here and so do others....

Yes, on occasions the topics do get heated...What do you expected when you mix those who are passionate life-long believers in the 2nd. and related topics and those who are just learning or are not yet decided????

As for myself,

I would like to apologize to those who I may have offended...But as I am accepting your points of view and responding in what I beleive is a respectful manner, I ask that you to do the same.

Welcome to TFL
Kind Regards,
Anthony2
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:50 AM   #60
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First of all, putting 'one of us' in quotes (about 5 posts ago) insinuates that the original poster said something the majority of posters don't agree with and therefore his ideas are no longer valid...Essentially what is implied is that he is no longer "one of us." Make sense?

I won't even dignify your "eye for an eye" comment with a response.

I was not trying to debate whether shooting a few bad guys before they inevitably kill you has merit. What I was trying to find out is whether or not people feel that carrying makes their loved ones more of a target to BGs.
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:50 AM   #61
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Quote:
A few years ago a woman was kidnapped from a shopping center parking lot at 4pm, she was later brutally raped and murdered.
The same guy approached my ex-wife, with my 7 year old son, a week earlier. She was able to protect herself with the gun she was carrying. They were walking back to her car from the mall theater in broad daylight.
like I said you CAN get jumped, robbed, killed in daylight too. but again it goes back to what I said before about acting like a target.

Quote:
And what makes it better for you not to be armed?
ok, lets say YOU are going to rob someone. it's dark, you don't know these people, you walk up, pull your gun and tell them to give you their money. while going for their wallets you notice one guy has a gun. you're already nervous as hell and tensions are high. you panic at the sight of this guys gun and the idea that he could shoot you and BANG! you take the first shot before he can.



btw, I'm all for carrying. I'm just playing devils advocate a little bit here.
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:55 AM   #62
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To Marks655-"why carry"

I don't belive that "Accidental Discharge" B/S for one second. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old March 19, 2006, 11:56 AM   #63
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Anthony2 - I feel the need to correct a flaw in your plans when you carry a weapon; it may save your life if the unthinkable should ever occur to you.

Your idea to have a blank in the chamber and fire it to get a live round in the chamber is the flaw. A blank cartridge will not operate any semiautomatic action that I am aware of. It would be better to simply leave the chamber empty if desired and quickly rack the slide when you draw the pistol.

After you become comfortable with the pistol of your choice, you may want to keep a live round in the chamber - strictly your choice.
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:02 PM   #64
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fairview mick - Was that really necessary considering all that has been said over the past 3 pages of posts??
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:05 PM   #65
theotherside
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Mal H - thank you for pointing that out.

When I said "jump down his throat" - that is what I meant.

I see people who go out on a limb and post something that not everyone will agree with (specifically I remember reading a post where a member thought that .22LR was the ultimate self defense round) and then within hours there are 6 pages of people saying the EXACT same thing just to drive home their points. It doesn't seem to accomplish anything.
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:05 PM   #66
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Mal H

Thank You for the information

This was something I did not know until, yesterday...I met a man who showed me the errors in my opinion...long story short...I now see no reason, not to carry with one in the chamber!

However, I would like to thank you for your help it is greatly appreciated...I guess now we should remove that poll on blanks huh?
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:09 PM   #67
Anthony2
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fairview mick

Are you trying to make a liar out of me?
Not long ago I made a statement about courteous and respectful...should we not include you in the 99.9% ?

Just kidding!!! You like everyone else here are entitled to your opinions and statements...whether anyone agrees with them or not!
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:10 PM   #68
WESHOOT2
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rephrase

"Stupidest thing I ever read".

There, I feel better

Let's maintain our senses (and sense of humor).

As for my quotes, I consider the original poster to be 'one of us', just as he stated.
But in a more argumentative approach, exactly how many people get killed deaddeaddead in car wrecks each year?
Am I getting through
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:11 PM   #69
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Anthony2

Carry a round in chamber of carry a wheel gun a blank will get you killed. Most time they won't cycle action and you have reduced your ammo count by 1.
Empty chamber Old FBI stats had attacks52% of time at less than 5' and 74% less than 10' where you going to find time to rack a slide. These numbers have not changed much in last few years. Today you might be facing 2 or more at close range Bang from a blank no way.Empty chamber REALLY NO WAY!!!
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:14 PM   #70
Mal H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony2
I guess now we should remove that poll on blanks huh?
To be honest, I hadn't seen that one until you just pointed it out (I don't catch 'em all). If you feel it no longer has merit, say the word and it's outaheah.
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:16 PM   #71
Anthony2
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rha600-playing devil's advocate

"ok, lets say YOU are going to rob someone. it's dark, you don't know these people, you walk up, pull your gun and tell them to give you their money. while going for their wallets you notice one guy has a gun. you're already nervous as hell and tensions are high. you panic at the sight of this guys gun and the idea that he could shoot you and BANG! you take the first shot before he can."

For all intents and purposes....this is a foolish statement....with all due respect, do you think anyone on TFL would ever rob someone? We are supposed to be the GG's not talking about becoming BG's...

Sometimes, I wish I was born in the 50's things were less complicated then.
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:19 PM   #72
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Mal H

Yes, Please remove the poll I would hate for someone to get the impression I had and carry a blank in their semi-auto......

Thanks.
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Old March 19, 2006, 12:36 PM   #73
Charles S
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Quote:
Just sharing this with you because I am an NRA member and served in the Army and am pro gun rights, but I cannot for the life of me figure out the logic of carrying a locked and loaded handgun into a movie theatre full of kids and moms.
To answer your original question in the most direct manner, bad things happen even when kids and moms are around.

Do you remember this incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's

One could have posed the same question. Why would anyone carry a gun in a restaurant full of families?

One can choose to see the world around them as a place of peace and tranquility, and live their life accordingly. I choose to hope for the best, but train and prepare for the worst. I would, and have carried my gun to a movie theater full of kids.

Charles
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Old March 19, 2006, 01:03 PM   #74
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Mark,
Normally I wouldn't respond to a thread of this type, but I'll give in & answer you.
I carry a pistol for defensive use, if needed. I carry it everywhere. I hope to not have to use it anywhere. I carry it because I believe there is enough of a possibility that it may be needed to justify that in my mind.
I do not gauge the need to carry it based on where I will be during the day or night. I do not gauge the need to carry it based on the number of people (or kids) who might be around me. I do not gauge the "appropriateness" of carrying it based on the type of structure I may be in.
If you watch the daily news regularly, you may notice where assaults and killings occur. If not, I'll spell it out for you- EVERYWHERE.
Theaters are hardly exempt. Neither are churches. One old neighborhood we used to live in was less than ten years old, and a fairly nice one. Four blocks away, at the church we would have gone to had we been of that religion, an armed kidnapping (ex-boyfriend) occurred. At the convenience store nearby a bunch of kids nearly beat a man to death out of a misunderstanding from a "road rage" incident. In the small town nearest to where we live in the country now, there was an incident on the main road in broad daylight recently where a man knifed his wife several times right out on foot in traffic. That happened about an hour before I went to town & I would have passed right through it if the timing had been slightly different. I could name others, and those are all in "nice" parts of the world in the state where I live.
It is not a matter of being paranoid, although if you wish to view it that way, it's your choice. It's also my choice to legally carry a defensive tool if I choose to do so, and I do.
I fail to understand the logic behind some of the statements regarding carrying a defensive handgun in a place such as a theater where there may be a lot of kids. I do not see the relevance, and as a retired cop let me tell you violence does not avoid theaters, nor does it avoid places full of children. Two things I can promise you- violence occurs at random, and it is no respecter of places. My handgun is no threat or danger to anybody in a crowded theater, until or unless another person should pose a deadly threat to me or those near me. It rests securely in a snapped holster on my belt. It will not activate itself. If your friend's Glock shot him, it was because he was doing something wrong with it, period! The thing did not go off on its own. If it was "in his jacket", it sounds like it was not riding properly in a good holster, and from the angle of impact (through his abdomen) it further sounds like he was moving it around for some reason, and may even have been playing with it somehow. The Glock will fire if the trigger is pulled, but the trigger has to be pulled for it to fire. Whether he did something inappropriate accidentally or deliberately, the gun did not shoot him without an outside influence. Granted, had it not been there in the first place, it would not have fired there. Had he not allowed it to happen, it would also not have happened. You can suggest ifs all day.
My point is that those of us who choose to be able to defend ourselves if violence is forced on us recognize that it CAN happen anywhere, and we simply choose not to be defenseless sheep if it does. I see various posters here saying they just got a permit to make it less hassle to transport guns, and that's fine, too. For the rest of us who actually carry under a permit, we're not paranoid, and hopefully the greater majority are responsible enough to do it in a manner that understands how the gun works, and carries it securely in a holster that retains it correctly.
Unfortunately, there is a small fringe minority who gets a permit just for the Cool Factor, and puts little thought into the mechanics or the responsibilities of using it.
Denis

Edited for spelling.

Last edited by DPris; March 19, 2006 at 04:10 PM.
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Old March 19, 2006, 01:11 PM   #75
fairview mick
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MalH

I was just expressing my belief emphatically!!!!!!!!
I don't belive the story about the gun "falling out of his pocket". Perhaps we'll see the tooth fairy and Santa all in the same movie.
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