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Old March 18, 2006, 09:53 PM   #26
mobilemail
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I left out one item from my earlier post. When I got my CCW, I suddenly realized how reassuring it was that law-abiding citizens, having been scrutinized by the state and the FBI, having considered the responsibility they have undertaken, are now in public and on my side!
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:55 PM   #27
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Marks,
I'm pretty sure the majority of the time it would be the citizens duty to exercise his rights. That doesn't mean that someone that doesn't carry is wrong, but that someone that does carry is doing it because they have the right to and either they feel more secure or they just want to exercise their rights. The best comparison I can give you is why would someone register to vote? You may not be voting for the best person, and may not even know it, but you have the right to register to vote and to vote. Not to sound full of myself, but I believe that that is the best answer you will get. Save us all some time.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:55 PM   #28
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fatts,

now see with my luck they would turn around and sue me saying I provoked it and the women would stick up for the boyfriend. if I had seen that I'd have just called the cops.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:57 PM   #29
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You can't make an appointment for an emergency. Things happen in movie theaters, while you're at a friend's house, or anywhere else that there are human beings. If this guy had been carrying the gun PROPERLY (ie in a good holster), it wouldn't have happened. I carry a Glock some of the time, and realize its good points, as well as its shortcomings. One of its shortcomings is that if you pull the trigger on a chambered round, it goes BANG (which is actually one of the good points, too). I also have carried a cocked-and-locked 1911, and a S&W 4506, among others. When on safe, the 1911 is not going to go off if one brushes the trigger. Same with the S&W. I would NOT be comfortable with a chambered round in a Glock, and the gun just thrown in a pocket. THAT is where your friend was irresponsible. Merely having a gun on your person is not.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:58 PM   #30
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Shields,
I guess that makes sense. Maybe I jumped the gun on stating that as fact. I personally wouldn't carry a gun locked and loaded at all unless I strongly felt that I would be put in a high-risk situation, but if it is already l&l leaving it alone would probably be your best bet. I guess what I meant was imo it shouldnt be l&l unless a high risk is almost certain and you usually dont go into a disney film expecting to need a gun.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:58 PM   #31
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Some of you have interesting situations that I can understand might make you CCW believers. But "Finding Nemo" ???? I still don't understand that one. I guess I never will.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:59 PM   #32
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Mark,
I'll give you a straight answer. I might carry a loaded firearm in a movie theater if I go to the movies. The reason is simple.
I do not fear some enraged mother stealing my popcorn.

I will, however, have to walk back to my car in a dark parking lot without security for me or my family. The best security I can provide is a loaded firearm. The only way I can make sure I have a gun on my person for that walk is to carry it in the theater with me.

If the theater provides personal security for my movie going, I will be happy to accept it. Until they do, it is up to me to provide that security. I am not holding my breath waiting for them. If you think the rent a cop in the Cushman on the other side of the mall is security, you are mistaken.

If your friend was carrying a Glock in a coat pocket he is an irresponsible knucklehead. Some firearms are safe for pocket carry. Glocks are not. Instead of focusing on the one knucklehead that had a ND in a theater, think about all the people who have been there who you never knew were packing. Indeed, think of all the people you encounter every day that you are unaware of the gun on their person.


There is one other reason to carry at all times, from a legal standpoint. You carry for self defense. If you must must use the weapon, under interrogation afterwards, one of the first questions you will be asked is whether you always carry a gun.

If you answer yes, you always carry, then that avenue of questioning is over.

If you answer no, you do not always carry, then the questioning will turn to why you carried this time. Did you expect trouble? Were you planning for trouble? Why did you not avoid the trouble you knew you were moving towards? Suddenly, you are no longer a victim who had to save his life, you are bordering on premeditation.

So there you have it. I do carry my gun at all times. That is why. If I need it, I cannot expect my attacker to wait until I run home to get it out of the safe. Surely that is not what you expect is it?
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:02 PM   #33
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XavierB:

I agree.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:03 PM   #34
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Xavier,
Great post.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:05 PM   #35
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Speaking of theaters, anyone remember the story about terrorists taking over a theater in Russia? Shooting kids in the back? NO place is safe.

And as Xavier said - HOW do you get to that theater? Is safe passage guaranteed?

You always carry the CCW gun ready to go (safety on if need be - 1911) - when you need it, you will need it NOW. NO loading, no racking the slide, no fumbling or whatever. THAT is responsible, and most recommended, unless you just aren't comfortable.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:05 PM   #36
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Do you carry a fire extinguisher in your car? Do you plan on your car catching fire? Most people don't. However, on occasion, a car does catch fire. Is the guy that has an extinguisher paranoid, or is he prepared? Did he get to pick the time and place that the car decided to burn?

Have you ever heard of a shooting at a theater? I have. Was it in "Finding Nemo"? Probably not. Are there other movies playing at the Googloplex 20? Yes, there are. Is it totally unfathomable that you might get jumped on the way back to the car?

I don't want to be the guy on the news going, "Well, I have a CHL, but I didn't think I'd get jumped walking out of 'Finding Nemo'." I'm with the guy that said his standard default mode is to carry wherever legal, without regard to playing the "I don't think anything will happen to me today" game.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:09 PM   #37
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OK guys. I understand now. Thanks for the posts.

I guess it makes sense in terms of the LEO interrogation for sure. I had not thought of that.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:09 PM   #38
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X has a decent post but there's still some points that can be made.

A) finding nemo was probably not being shown at 10:00pm and most likely wasn't even at night time so you would have been walking to your car in borad daylight. sure something could happen but it's just a point. it still comes back to him carrying the gun properly.

B) you may not carry the gun all the time for several reasons. your work might not allow it. you may not be able to carry. say if you were a lifeguard on the beach, where to you hide a .357? Or just plain and simple, you carried it because you had to go into a questionable area and you didn't feel safe without it.

C) what if the attacker has a gun too? just because he's an attacker commiting a crime doesn't mean he doesnt' have a CCW.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:15 PM   #39
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Generally if a movie is being shown at all, it is being shown at all times, if there is a 1:30 late late show then guess what, finding nemo is probably on.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:19 PM   #40
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I guess like anything else there is a time and place for it. for example that issue in the hurricane affected areas. I'm not sure I'd want to be standing in line for water with 500 people carrying. For tose of you who haven't gone through something like that, things can get nasty REALLY quick. but if I were working as a delivery man, or going into a questionable area of town it's a given that I'd have it on me. Any other time is a personal choice as to how safe you feel. there was another post where we were discussing this a bit and I mentioned that those who think they are safe because of a CCW should also think about taking some kind of self defense course or martial arts. there very well could be a time when you don't get to your gun fast enough. someone also mention that if you look like a target you'll become a target. stand up and act confident in yourself. There's a lot of ways to keep yourself safe. CCW is just one (and quite a big one) way of doing it.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:23 PM   #41
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Quote:
Generally if a movie is being shown at all, it is being shown at all times, if there is a 1:30 late late show then guess what, finding nemo is probably on.
maybe where you live.

http://www.muvicotickets.com/showtim...?theaterid=160

curious george doesn't play past 2:20 pm.
8 below (the one about the dogs at the south pole) doesn't play past 5:50pm
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:28 PM   #42
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Wow, never seen that before.
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Old March 18, 2006, 10:30 PM   #43
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I still have the brain of an 8 year old so I like the kids movies. therefore I pay more attention.
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Old March 19, 2006, 02:07 AM   #44
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I used to not carry every where. I worked for a good company no firearms allowed. Had a unarmed security guard at entrance to property. No sweat. Till the day a stranger walked in pulled a gun and started shooting. I lost 2 friends that morning 2 more wounded and several lives of those that surived messed up forever.. Doesn't matter where you are or time of day or night. It can and does happen I carry every where .I take my kids to movie dam sure I packing. You friend was a jerk carry a Glock not in a holster. Glock should sue him for being stupid in public and giving their pistol a bad name.
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Old March 19, 2006, 03:02 AM   #45
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I carry because I don't want anything to happen to my 4 year old daughter. I was even more convinced to carry when a friend was shot to death in his back yard by a alcoholic neighbor who wanted to steal his car.
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Old March 19, 2006, 06:21 AM   #46
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"fatts,

now see with my luck they would turn around and sue me saying I provoked it and the women would stick up for the boyfriend. if I had seen that I'd have just called the cops."

While it may be tempting to stand there and just watch a man stab a woman to death, just so you don't get sued... I just couldn't do that. Reminds me of that story posted here a while back about the old man who shot a guy attacking his wife in WalMart.

(BTW, I've heard the words " What are you carrying for? We're going to WalMart." come out of my wife's mouth.

You know I was sitting in a restaurant with some friends after a match last year, and one of the other competitors came by to chat. One of the guys shook his hand and patted him on the side and noticed he was carrying. When he walked away, everybody at the table but me wwent on tirades about it. Mostly to the effect of "why would somebody carry a gun into a place like this?!"

My first thought was "A place like this? My brother was killed in a place like this." (Which also happened to be his workplace. I carry at my workplace,too.) I felt alienated. Apparently, I was the only one carrying at our table.

What I'm getting at is bad things can happen anywhere. So I don't see any problem with my pocket gun in a holster, especially with a long double action trigger or a manual safety. Or anyone else's.

Mark, your buddy wasn't an idiot for carrying in a theater. He was an idiot for carrying it in a jacket pocket without a holster.
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Old March 19, 2006, 07:08 AM   #47
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Lots of good stuff in this thread. Michael T has it right... Glock should sue that guy instead of the other way around. Mark, I'm happy that you may have seen the light about this particular subject...which is a common theme used by the anti-gun crowd, by the way. Do not buy into any of their talking points, Mark.
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Old March 19, 2006, 07:41 AM   #48
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This is actually very simple. I feel safe carrying because, unlike your careless friend at the movie theatre, I follow all of the rules of safe gun handling all of the time. Without fail. Period.
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Old March 19, 2006, 08:00 AM   #49
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Quote:
A) finding nemo was probably not being shown at 10:00pm and most likely wasn't even at night time so you would have been walking to your car in broad daylight. sure something could happen but it's just a point. it still comes back to him carrying the gun properly.
A few years ago a woman was kidnapped from a shopping center parking lot at 4pm, she was later brutally raped and murdered.
The same guy approached my ex-wife, with my 7 year old son, a week earlier. She was able to protect herself with the gun she was carrying. They were walking back to her car from the mall theater in broad daylight.
Quote:
C) what if the attacker has a gun too? just because he's an attacker committing a crime doesn't mean he doesnt' have a CCW.
And what makes it better for you not to be armed?

Anybody that thinks they can predict when and where a criminal will choose them as a target has absolutely no clue about criminal mentality.
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Old March 19, 2006, 08:19 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marks655
You didn't answer my question. Would you carry a locked and loaded handgun into a movie theatre full of kids and moms ? If so, why?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marks655
Afraid one of the moms will kick your butt and steal your popcorn ?
No. I am aware, however, that bad things happen to good people. And that those bad things can happen at any time of day, in any neighborhood, in any location, and for no forseeable reason.

Maybe my car will break down on the way to the theater, and I'll be stuck on the side of the road with my children, waiting for a tow truck, when a rapist-of-opportunity decides to try picking us up to see if he can. Maybe the car doesn't break down, but once we get to the theater, a disgruntled ex-employee comes in and tries to slaughter everyone there, including my irreplaceable children. Maybe some jerkface will flip out that his wife took their kids to the movies, and will come in to kick the crap out of her and then kill her in front of us all. Maybe on the way home from the theater, we'll get stuck in traffic and a road-rager will come after me with a tire iron. Maybe when we get out of the car, safe and sound in our own driveway, I'll walk into the house and surprise an armed burglar who would rather shoot or carve his way out than simply leave through the back door.

Or maybe none of that stuff will happen, and instead I'll come home, fiddle around for a couple of hours with dinner and such, and remove my holstered gun when bedtime rolls around and I get into my jammies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marks655
If you are that afraid to go outside without your piece maybe you should just stay indoors.
Actually, I carry indoors, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marks655
The theatre incident occurred in Hoover Alabama about 4 1/2 years ago and I won't say anymore about it out of respect for the person involved. The Glock was in his jacket and went off when he grabbed the jacket to leave. It was a completely accidental discharge and anyone familiar with a Glock knows the safety is part of the trigger, and the gun can be discharged inadvertantly as occurred in this incident. (nothing against Glocks - I have an old 17 and love it).
Your friend's story gives me the willies.

Anyone familiar with a Glock knows you don't carry one with the trigger uncovered. You put it in a good holster with a completely covered trigger guard. When your friend grabbed the jacket, the gun did not "go off" in some mysterious or unforseeable manner. Rather, your friend pulled the trigger when he picked up his jacket.

If the event happened as you said, it wasn't a "completely accidental" discharge. It was a negligent discharge, caused by either ignorance (not knowing how a Glock functions and not knowing the safety rules for one) or arrogance (thinking the safety rules are for other people). In either case, the "accident" was both forseeable and preventable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marks655
But seriously, what business did this person have with a loaded/chambered piece in a jacket pocket sitting on a theatre seat. ?
None. He really should not have been carrying off-body in a roomful of kids. If you're going to carry off-body and you are sitting in the dark with other people around, the only place to set your jacket, purse, bag, or pack is right in your lap rather than on the seat next to you. (I had an acquaintance in high school who used to get his thrills out of pawing through other people's stuff in the movie theater. He said it was a lot easier than most folks can imagine.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marks655
Again, would you do it ? Why ?
I wouldn't have carried in the manner he did and I surely wouldn't have left my gun casually next to me on a seat in a dark movie theater.

But I carry my gun nearly everywhere for the same reason I wear my seatbelt. For the same reason I make sure my smoke alarms all have good batteries. And for the same reason I make my kids eat their vegetables.

Why do I do those things? Because no one expects an accident. And because it's better to be prepared than to be caught unawares. And because I love my children.

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