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Old March 18, 2006, 07:50 PM   #1
marks655
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CCW why?

I see lots of CCW posts and I often wonder why people would want the responsibility to carry and control a lethal weapon under most circumstances.

I know a person who was somewhat paranoid and 'carried' a Glock (not sure what model it was). He apparently carried it much of the time except at work where it was prohibited by company policy. Several years go he had a serious accident with it one evening at a movie theatre (a Disney movie - Finding Nemo or something). The gun was in his jacket and it discharged inside a theatre full of families and kids. He took most of it himself in the abdomen but the round went thru him and lodged in the back of an empty seat a row behind him. Kids were sitting in adjacent seats. He was seriously hurt but recovered. The theatre was of course emptied of terrified patrons.

I don't know if he carries now, but he did file some sort of lawsuit against Glock.

Just sharing this with you because I am an NRA member and served in the Army and am pro gun rights, but I cannot for the life of me figure out the logic of carrying a locked and loaded handgun into a movie theatre full of kids and moms.

Can you ?

Would you ?
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Old March 18, 2006, 07:57 PM   #2
Trip20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marks655
I cannot for the life of me figure out the logic of carrying a locked and loaded handgun into a movie theatre full of kids and moms
mark - the gun is not going to jump out of the holster and begin attacking everyone. You do realize this, right?

Here's a a post by another member of TFL named pax. Maybe it'll help you understand the mindset behind carrying everywhere. She is addressing another member of TFL. This quote is from post #26 in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pax
PythonGuy ~

Good post. Let me try to find some common ground.

I know what you mean about some posts being funny. You're amused by folks who carry everywhere. I'm bemused when I see threads with titles like, "Do you carry to a friend's house?" "Do you carry at home?" "Do you carry to work?" "Do you carry at church?" etc ad infinitum.

The reason those threads amuse me is because, well, I carry. And I go places and do things. I don't carry "to a friend's house," or "to church" or "at home" -- I simply carry, wherever I might be. My default setting is to carry and if I'm not carrying it is because I made a deliberate decision not to do so right then. The reason I carry is never because I think whatever I'm doing is particularly dangerous; if I think something is particularly dangerous, I simply don't do it (or at least I find a way to do it more safely -- such as during the day instead of at night, or with a friend instead of alone). So all the angst about whether carry is appropriate in a particular venue just leaves me bemused.

A lot of people do the exact opposite. They go places and do things, but their default setting is to leave the gun locked up at home. If they carry at all, it's because they made a conscious decision to carry that day -- generally because they thought they were doing something particularly dangerous. I don't do it that way simply because my crystal ball has never been very good and I've noticed that bad things generally happen to me when I'm not expecting it. If other folks have noticed that bad things happen to them only when they are expecting it and prepared for it, who am I to argue? It's their lives.

I just wish they could refrain from insulting me for my choices, in the same way I refrain from insulting them for their choices.
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Old March 18, 2006, 08:02 PM   #3
UH1-D Rotorhead
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I cannot speak for this particular incident...

....but years ago, I got my CCW because the laws regarding transporting weapons, was at best, Byzantine...if I wanted to go to the range, I had to have the weapon in open view in my auto, or practically field stripped and tripled locked in my trunk, with the ammo in an inaccesable and separate place...it was OK to openly carry a pistol in public, holstered, for all to see....and you can believe that's not a pretty sight around women and young children, unless of course, you have some sort of uniform conveying the message that you are law enforcement. To have a weapon sitting on your dashboard (because that's what's legal) is just inviting trouble. So.......I got a CCW, and eliminated that/those problems. Personally, I never carry...I live secure in my space, that I don't have a need to have a weapon on my person...but I don't like to advertise that a weapon is on board for all to see, when I do go to the range.

So their you have it...I'm stickin' with this story, and that's the whole truth.
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Old March 18, 2006, 08:13 PM   #4
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I carry a revolver because I personally feel they are safer and more reliable. That is my oppinion. I'm not out to pick an arguement with a die hard 1911 owner. I am 100% secure in the fact that it will not spontaneously discharge in public or at home. I have a permit because I like to be able to transport guns in my car without having to comply with a bunch of rules. I don't carry everywhere and anywhere just where I feel the need. Alot of my decision to carry depends on what time of day it is and where I am going. If I'm going out when I feel I need to carry I generally try to defer my trip to another time. I am a fan of mitigating my risks. My revolver is my saftey net not my primary means of getting my tail out of a jam. I avoid that jam in the first place.
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Old March 18, 2006, 08:13 PM   #5
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And that's really it.

Years of safe handling of firearms, accurate shooting, and not putting myself into the wrong situation (getting involved with nefarious things) has made me confident in my ability to use a firearm, and to legally carry one wherever I may be. As such I carry... Always. I wake up and it's the step after putting my belt on my pants.
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Old March 18, 2006, 08:20 PM   #6
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living in such a safe area as far as people go, im more concerned with being able to carry in the wild, more afraid of the 4 legged than that 2 legged up here. not knocking anyone that carries 24/7 tho, not at all.
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Old March 18, 2006, 08:21 PM   #7
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Ditto...

I agree with a lot of the reasons offered.

For one thing, I think you are giving yourself legal protection if you are stopped and are carrying a firearm. Our police will be very happy to charge you with carrying a concealed weapon without a license, if you aren't licensed. It happens all the time.
If you are going to ever carry, getting licensed is simply a must.

Another reason, peace of mind. The reality is there are individuals who are predators in our society. I don't think I deserve to be victimized just because I go out a little late to get a gallon of milk.

Finally, better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Oh, and guns are cool!
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:03 PM   #8
marks655
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Trip 20:

I don't appreciate your sarcasm. I only asked the question 'why do people carry?

You didn't answer my question. Would you carry a locked and loaded handgun into a movie theatre full of kids and moms ? If so, why? Afraid one of the moms will kick your butt and steal your popcorn ?

If you are that afraid to go outside without your piece maybe you should just stay indoors.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:15 PM   #9
rha600
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I actually don't intend to carry. My only reason behind getting the permit is to avoid the 5 day wait when I want to go buy a new gun. IF there comes a time that for some reason I have to be in a bad area or go into work late at night I MIGHT bring it with but 99.9% of the time the guns will not be on my person unless I am hunting or going to the range.


oh, also I wouldn't mind hunting with a handgun and I would assume I need a CCW permit to do that. so that would be another reason besides the 5 day wait BS.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:17 PM   #10
shield20
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Here is an easy way to find out why most of us carry - listen to the news, or read a paper.

See those articles about people getting gunned down in a few Denny's? How about McDonalds? Hear the ones about the postal workers killing a bunch of people? The shootings in the church in detroit? The disgruntled worker going back to his ex-employers and shooting a few folks? Read the one about yet another college girl raped, kidnapped, murdered? The little kids abducted and raped and murdered? How about the one where the homies needed to prove they were tuff so they murdered the 1st person they passed on the street? The other one about homies trying to kidnap people off the street? Some of the ones about some nut going crazy and shooting everyone at his local mall? Surely you have read or heard about a robbery, mugging, rape, car-jacking, murder, home invasion at one time or another? The kids going on shooting rampages at their schools? And you do realize we are at war with enemies who want all of us dead? With those would think nothing of blowing up or gunning down you, your friends your family? You had to have heard about the jihad student who went driving thru his campus running students over?

Well - that is why I carry - because I refuse to let myself or my loved ones be a victim subjected to the whims of some raping murdering victimizing scumbag. I am not going gently - I will do what ever it takes; I will make sure I will be able to depend on ME - on the only one I really can count on to protect myself and my family from the evil in this world. I will take the responsibility of carrying - because the lives of the ones I love may depend on it, and they are worth it.

Think about it - the question really should be why DON'T YOU carry?
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:18 PM   #11
rha600
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hey mark, check this out.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=204231


and I don't think trip was trying to be sarcastic. although I totally agree with you that carrying the gun into that theater was a little dumb,trip is correct that the gun doesn't just go off. but without knowing more about the actually accident I really can't say more than that.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:18 PM   #12
Shakazulu
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First, try working in North Philly, or walking home from your girlfriends house at 11 p.m. in Philadelphia and tell me you don't wish you had a firearm on your side for protection. My motto is it's better to have and not need it, rather need it and not have it.

Second, If the gun went off inside the theater then the trigger was pulled. If he was dumb enough to play with the weapon while it was locked and loaded, then he is one of the many people who should not carry a weapon in public. Carrying in public is a responsibilty not just to yourself but everyone around you, it is not for everyone.

Lastly, it's my God given right as an American. I have the right to protect myself and my family, not just in my home, but anywhere.

Hope that helps.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:22 PM   #13
rha600
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hahaha I used to work at 400 N. broad street. from that point on northward it got pretty bad. and that was 8 years ago.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:26 PM   #14
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West Philly is even worse, we get 2-3 homicides a night now.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:29 PM   #15
marks655
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I know more about firearms and how to handle them than most peolpe. I have shot at people and I have been shot at. I agree with the right to carry laws and hopefully one will be passed very soon here in Kansas. But it gives me the willies thinking of people carrying in crowded areas full of kids, etc. unless they are LEOs.

The theatre incident occurred in Hoover Alabama about 4 1/2 years ago and I won't say anymore about it out of respect for the person involved. The Glock was in his jacket and went off when he grabbed the jacket to leave. It was a completely accidental discharge and anyone familiar with a Glock knows the safety is part of the trigger, and the gun can be discharged inadvertantly as occurred in this incident. (nothing against Glocks - I have an old 17 and love it).

But seriously, what business did this person have with a loaded/chambered piece in a jacket pocket sitting on a theatre seat. ?

Again, would you do it ? Why ?
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:34 PM   #16
rha600
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ok now you're asking us to dig into the mind of your friend and discover why he carried his gun into a theater full of kids, which we just can't do.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:35 PM   #17
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I think we can all agree that we carry, not because we think we may find ourselves in a shootout every time we go out, but because we just never know. It is about being prepared. For example, I'm sure all of us find going to church a very safe practice. Have you heard about the armed church robery in Baltimore?

http://www.umc.org/site/c.gjJTJbMUIu...ngregation.htm

I'm not trying to say God couldn't have caused fire to rain down from the sky and consume that guy like He has done in the past. The point is that we have the God given responsibility to protect ourselves, our families, and our "neighbors." If someone was there w/ his 1911, things may have turned out differently.

Finally, to answer the question, of course I carry in such places simply because I am prepared in the event something like that happens.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:37 PM   #18
marks655
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Quote:
ok now you're asking us to dig into the mind of your friend and discover why he carried his gun into a theater full of kids, which we just can't do.
No, I'm asking you CCW buffs - if you think this was appropriate, and if you would do it.

I have yet to see a straight answer.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:40 PM   #19
shield20
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I carry in theaters. I carry at church. I would carry to school if I could. I try to carry when ever I can legally, unless I will be drinking. I do so for the reasons explained above - because I can not choose when some scumbag may decide to make me or my kids their next target. IF something sinister happened (which as history shows can be ANYwhere at ANY time) and I did not have my piece and so could not prevent some innocent's death, especially my family's, I would never be able to forgive myself if it was my choice and I didn't carry when I could have.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:44 PM   #20
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No disrespect intended, but a responsible ccw holder WOULD NOT carry a locked and loaded glock into a theatre full of kids unless he felt he or the kids were in immediate danger. A responsible ccw holder would have emptied the chamber before entering a theater full of children.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:45 PM   #21
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Why I have a CCW

I live the Gulf Coast area that has recently been pretty beat up by hurricanes--fortunately, not in New Orleans. But when you see the lines for water, gas, plywood, etc., and people's reactions in time of crisis, a certain realization sets in that a little adversity makes bad neighbors out of many.
I don't carry most of the time (carry laws and the places I work every day would make it impossible anyway), but I appreciate the option of being able to legally protect my wife and my home if it is necessary. I grew up in Illinois, what I "lovingly" refer to as the "gun-hate" state (legislatively speaking), so I fully realize that not everyone has the option that I have.
As a side benefit, it's nice knowing that I can go camping, hiking, etc. and legally carry a weapon for the odd snake or nut-case field traveler.
I waited a few years between the time I did the CCW required training and actually turned in my application, because I fully recognize the consequence of using such force. But it's my wife, my home, my responsibility, to the extent that I am capable. If that is something you honestly aren't comfortable with yourself, you will only put yourself in harm's way by doing the same.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:46 PM   #22
rha600
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Quote:
No, I'm asking you CCW buffs - if you think this was appropriate, and if you would do it.

I have yet to see a straight answer.
well then I don't know what you're looking for. my answer was as straight as you can get.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:47 PM   #23
marks655
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No offense intended towards the CCW crowd. I'm just trying to understand the mindset.

There are times I would like to have a piece tucked away but they are very infrequent.

Thanks for your posts.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:49 PM   #24
shield20
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Blake,

Why? I find the most responsible thing to do is leave the frigging gun alone, secured properly in its holster, with the holster in its proper location on your person. They really VERY VERY seldom go off on their own.

mark,

No offense taken - there are times I wish I didn't have to worry about my concealed piece, but they are pretty infrequent too - usually feel better with it then without.
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Old March 18, 2006, 09:50 PM   #25
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A couple of years ago my boss was driving home from work and decided to stop and pick up a pack of smokes in Dade City (Florida) and he saw a rather large man yelling at a woman outside the convenience store. The man had a knife and was slashing at the woman. My boss called to the man, who turned around and pointed the knife at him and told him in not so many words to mind his own business. He then went back to trying to carve up the woman who was bleeding profusely, so my boss drew his weapon and told the man to leave. The man whirled around and charged him with the knife. My boss shot him in the mid-section and he went down. I turns out the man was the girl's boyfriend and was trying to get at the baby she was shielding from him in her arms. Not that this sort of thing will probably ever happen to us but it still makes for a pretty good reason to be prepared.
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