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Old March 15, 2006, 09:18 PM   #1
mete
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Gun vs Knife [Graphic !!]

There were some recent comments that you shouldn't draw on a knife . http://www.jungletraining.com/forums...?threadid=3159 ...CORRECTION ! -this is a photo of a prison inmate after a fight with another inmate , not an officer !!! However it illustrates the damage a knife can do !!! --If he has a knife you are to shoot immediately !!!

Last edited by mete; March 16, 2006 at 02:15 AM.
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Old March 15, 2006, 09:52 PM   #2
atlctyslkr
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That's messed up! I'm glad were getting a Florida law here real soon so that I don't have to worry about whether or not it's justified.
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Old March 15, 2006, 10:09 PM   #3
01locksmith
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A knife is a deadly weapon and so is a hammer, ball bat ect. Come at me with anything like that and thou shall be shot!
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Old March 15, 2006, 10:38 PM   #4
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they say for officers the min. safe distance for someone with and edged weapon is 21ft
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Old March 16, 2006, 03:09 AM   #5
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21 ft. rule

I read an article about the "21 ft. rule" a while back stating that in the time it takes the average person to react to a charging assailant and draw his weapon, the badguy who was originally 21 feet away could close the gap and be within striking distance. Waste 'em.
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Old March 16, 2006, 04:20 AM   #6
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atlctyslkr, It's my understanding that Florida has that law in effect since October of 2005. Rejoice! You are legally permitted to use deadly force if you (reasonably) believe yourself to be threatened with grievous bodily harm or death -- even if you are not in your house, and even if you could theoretically feasibly retreat.

The requirement to retreat was crap. It meant putting yourself at risk of deadly harm -- for what? -- just because ninnies don't like the idea of people actually fighting back against a criminal attacker and possibly killing him. I say, what's the big sadness if we do exactly that?! There was a societal good being served by sparing and running away from violent criminals?! :barf:

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Old March 16, 2006, 11:46 AM   #7
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Not before lunch

I should nor have looked at that before lunch. Lost my appetite. If I read my local laws right, defense of justification is met when you are in fear of having grievous bodily harm done to you. Damage like what was done to that inmate can be done with a box cutter. They will cut to the quick. You attack me with a knife and your getting shot. I think its critical to add close in gun fighting skills to anyone training. You must learn how to draw and shoot effectively when you are within the 21 feet zone. In fact, in an urban environment 21 feet is a large distance. Subways, buses, train platforms, etc. Even with situational awarness on your side, you will proably have to react with an attacker very close to you. Sobering pictures.
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Old March 16, 2006, 11:59 AM   #8
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That is the last time he will make that mistake..!!!!!!!!!

Those are some nasty woulds.
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Old March 16, 2006, 12:50 PM   #9
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Yowzer! That is some awfull wounds, the guy is sliced up like a picnic roast.
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Old March 16, 2006, 01:14 PM   #10
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One of our officers was working a store security job off duty years back, when he tried to stop a shoplifter from leaving the store. He never even saw the knife, but it left him on the floor with his intestines hanging out.

He drew to shoot the guy, and the manager jumped in front of him. Said he didn't want to get sued .

Don't EVER underestimate someone with an edged weapon.
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Old March 16, 2006, 01:21 PM   #11
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I should have known better. The temptation to open a thread marked "Graphic" is so alluring. It gets me every time.

Those are some of the most nasty wounds I have ever seen. I'd make an awful doctor.
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Old March 16, 2006, 02:09 PM   #12
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The guy is probably very lucky he was overweight. If you look at the rib cut, it just barely got into the muscle. All that yellow bumpy looking stuff is fat. Same with his back and chest. That would also help explain why he is not gushing blood. No blood in fat. If he had no fat, most of those cuts would have probably been to the bone, and cut a lot of bigger blood vessels.

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Old March 16, 2006, 03:05 PM   #13
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Lucky man.

Sure, it hurts like hell, but those are typical "flesh wounds" we hear so much about. He's sitting up because no vital organs were hit-I hope there are no facial lacerations.
They will stich the crap out of him and put him on antibiotics for months probably.
This also proves the durability of the human body in reality versus what we have grown accostomed to seeing on TV and movies.
And yeah, for the terrible scars he will have, he probably should have shot first.
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Old March 16, 2006, 03:20 PM   #14
jcoiii
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Quote:
they say for officers the min. safe distance for someone with and edged weapon is 21ft
Yep, I got drilled on that at the academy, even though I was drawn and on target prior to 21 feet, the Training Officer said I should have shot him at 21 feet. (I happened to disagree since I was already drawn and ready to fire. I thought that I could give him another step or two. When he didn't stop, he got two to the chest.)

It is important only in theory, because on or off duty, if a guy makes any movements with a knife that I interpret to be threatening to me, my gun comes out. I don't care how far away the guy is. And I'll do my best to not shoot him before 21 feet
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Old March 16, 2006, 04:50 PM   #15
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That's going to leave a mark.
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Old March 16, 2006, 05:06 PM   #16
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Did that guy actually live through that attack?
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Old March 16, 2006, 05:19 PM   #17
WhyteP38
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If anyone ever asks you why you have a gun for self-defense, show them that picture. I doubt they'll ask you that question a second time. (And if they do, they'll never understand.)
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Old March 16, 2006, 05:30 PM   #18
WillBrayjr
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I carry a knife but than again I don't go looking for a person to mug either. Therefore it's very unlikely that I'm going to get shot by someone that has a CCW. 95% of d--kheads look for little people like me to mug. Morale of the story: It's almost always the little dogs that pack the biggest bite Guns are effective but when a badguy is on your back before you now it, a knife is just as lethal.

Soon I plan on adding a 21in ASP extendable baton
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Old March 16, 2006, 06:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
I'm glad were getting a Florida law here real soon so that I don't have to worry about whether or not it's justified.
What law would that be?
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Old March 16, 2006, 06:22 PM   #20
Digital Chainsaw
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Duty to Retreat Sucked

There was a societal good being served by sparing and running away from violent criminals?!


--My thoughts exactly when I first learned of this stupid law the hard way when I was 18; no gun involved.

Picture this: January, 1992: The short of it was, this big, old, teamster-looking guy in a parking lot started some trouble, kicked my car and then took a swing at me. His punch missed, but none of mine did. Problem was, the jackass didn't know when to quit, and kept getting back up to fight. I thought I had better leave before I had to kill the idiot. Well, of course, a lot of upright, concerned citizens (none of whom saw him attack me, or lifted a finger to help who they thought was the apparent "victim") took down my tag and called the police. Not a bright move, leaving the scene, I now realize, but I was 18...

Anyway, when I called the police back to my house (I didn't go directly home and they had left a business card) there were enough police cars in my yard that it looked like a friggin drug raid. I remember one of the cops asking me if I feared the man that attacked me, to which I replied, "yes". Then the cop asked, "so why didn't you run?" I thought this was a stupid question, but I replied honestly and said, "I face my fears, I don't run from them". I was then informed of this whole "duty to retreat" BS. I had never heard of anything so stupid in my life. I thought this through for the next few days (in the Pinellas County Hilton) and it still made no sense. Basically, the message the government was sending was that criminals could assault and/or batter anyone they pleased and all law-abiding citizens could do was run or cower in fear.

Well, it took 13 years, but they finally see it my way here in good ol' FLA.
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Old March 16, 2006, 06:33 PM   #21
Digital Chainsaw
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To joab

Quote:
I'm glad were getting a Florida law here real soon so that I don't have to worry about whether or not it's justified.

What law would that be?

--Florida recently abolished the "duty to retreat" law I spoke of above, meaning, in short, that if you are in any place you have a lawful right to be, you can stand your ground and fight back, using deadly force if necessary to defend your or another's life or to prevent great bodily harm from occuring to you or another.
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Old March 16, 2006, 06:36 PM   #22
Shakazulu
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Knives are excellent backup CCW, especially folding. A number of things can be accomplished with a knife that a firearm lacks. First off, within three feet a handgun can easily be grabbed by an attacker and a struggle insues. No on in their right mind would reach to grab a blade. Secondly, folding knives can be used without even flipping the blade open. Simply holding the closed knife tightly in a fist, hardening your punch, can be lethal. Also, not alot of people, even criminals have been around guns, they aren't aware of what they are capable of, and would respond much more to the sight of a knife. Everyone's been cut before. Lastly, the aftermath. It might look much more humane to a liberal, anti-gun judge when explaning how you defended yourself with a knife so you wouldn't have to pull your firearm.
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Old March 16, 2006, 06:48 PM   #23
WillBrayjr
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Michigan has that "Duty to Retreat" law too, and I unfortunately exprianced it first hand. A "family" member physically assaulted by shoving me into a corner than took a swing at me. How the heck was I supposed to retreat? In any case wasn't just going to stand there and let anyone hit me, so I returned the favor and threw a hard left and fractured the person's nose in two places. My "family" wouldn't let me call the police but they allowed the other family member to

Morale of this story: I have no faith in the Justice system and have a bitter taste in my mouth when it comes to LE


Shakazulu,
A badguy is more likely to back away from a gun than a knife. The nice thing about a knife is you can deploy it without the badguy knowing it until it's too late
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Old March 16, 2006, 07:06 PM   #24
Shakazulu
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I dunno Will. Within three feet I'd honestly take the knife. If the assaliant is someone bigger and stronger, a handgun that close might give you a 50/50 chance. My opinion is that when that close the assaliant isn't going to run, no. His natural reaction to the remove the threat, grabbing the gun. His sub-concious knows he can still be shot while retreating. A knife on the other hand is much more scary in my opinion when in that three foot radius. His sub-concious knows that retreating from the knife is much more easier then trying to attack it.
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Old March 16, 2006, 07:17 PM   #25
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I just can't believe that "defending yourself" is a crime in certain states... Makes me sicker than any graphic pictures ever could.:barf:
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