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Old February 24, 2007, 09:14 PM   #76
Derby FALs
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If they are too dangerous to own a firearm then they are too dangerous to be on the outside. Let's keep them locked up and put the addicts in rehab.
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Old February 24, 2007, 10:19 PM   #77
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I'm not a LEO, and I don't have any experiance dealing with the problems you guys see on a daily basis. In principle I agree with the concept of just legalizing everything and taxing the heck out of it. I used to be an absolutist on the subject, but now I'm not so sure.

I rented a room in a house a few years back (while going to school) which was the cheapest I could find and unfortunatly had a few other guys living there who turned out to be meth addicts. These guys were basicly good people, (I didn't pick up on them using at all for the first few months) but eventually it became obvious, and I started noticing things. It wound up pretty much destroying these guy's lives, and really changed who they were at a fundamental level. It made regular people into guys you couldn't turn your back on or trust at all, and while I understand that the decision to use the first time was no ones fault but their own, I don't know if I can assign them all the blame for subsequent use. I saw these guys try to quit the stuff and fail over and over again. It was harsh.

It seems that even from a libertarian standpoint meth may be a social evil that we need to deal with incramentaly. If a drug is so addictive that it you are unable to overcome the desire for it with your will, then it is in fact infringing upon your freedoms? and if using it even a handfull of times can make you addicted then we might want to think long and hard about making it available over the counter.

The current war on drugs isn't working as it was originally intended, but I'm not so sure that total legalization is the answer either.

I guess from a constitutional standpoint it all comes down to wether or not an inanimate object can infringe on an individuals rights. If it can, then we have an obligation to either regulate meth or find some other way to keep people away from it (perhapse offer something else that is non-addictie and has similar properties?)

I'm still absolutly support the bill of rights compleatly, I just don't know how I feel about drugs (cocaine, herioin, meth) anymore.

If something has the power to change who you are fundamentally and permenantly, is it ok to make compleatly unrestricted?
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Old February 24, 2007, 10:49 PM   #78
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The average lifespan of a meth addict is 7 years after becoming addicted which can happen very quickly. During that time, they change from being normal to being, as was mentioned, someone you wouldn't want to turn your back on. Just let them continue to take the drug and someone can bury them. A lot cheaper than rehab.

I personally don't care how much it costs. I am only concerned about its effects and the innocent people that are affected as a result of the addiction and manufacture.

I have been in houses where cooks have occurred and all the metal fixtures (lights, ceiling fans, hinges on cabinets, appliances, etc.) are corroded from all the acid vapors. Just think what those vapors are doing to someone who is litterally standing over the stove breathing them in during a cook?? Just think about the small child who is crawling around in all the filth on the floor while this is going on?? Then the people involved or their family members say that they only did it once?? Right......

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Old April 7, 2007, 05:44 PM   #79
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Quote:
This one had a (don't laugh) cherry cough syrup odor
Hmmmm... IIRC, naptha and acetone are used in the clandestine production of meth. Perhaps one of the side products was isobutyl acetate, an ester, many of which have floral or fruit smell.
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The current war on drugs isn't working as it was originally intended, but I'm not so sure that total legalization is the answer either.
Agreed. Perhaps with compounds like meth and other such personality altering chemicals we should adopt the model I read about the Brits trying. Genuine addicts get their supply via a Rx from a physician so their health can be monitored, and if they begin to spiral out of control and look to become a danger to others they can be institutionalized until the addiction is back under control. Three times into treatment in some period of time and the addict gets banished to a modern "Leper Colony" where if the crater, they do not damage the rest of us.
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Old May 14, 2007, 01:46 AM   #80
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Narc Anon

Hey Derby you still there? : Thought I'd let you know that I went with my son to a Narc Anon meeting for moral support. I have to tell ya I was definitely out of my comfort zone, but it's not the first time and I was doing this for my son. Most of the people there I knew from either investigations I'd done on them or I had arrested. A couple were civil and cordial, but the rest just gave me the ol hate stare. Well, I did my part and participated with him in the meeting. POINT IS, that after the meeting was over the head dude asked my son if he would not bring me back as it made the others uncomfortable. No problem for me, but I thought that was kind of sad for my son. He was very proud of me that I would get out of my comfort zone to help him. Now his uncle goes with him.

Tried it your way. Wasnt shown much respect if you ask me. So much for open mindedness.
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Old May 14, 2007, 02:35 PM   #81
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Tried it your way. Wasnt shown much respect if you ask me. So much for open mindedness.
'Course not. I wouldn't show much respect to anyone robbing me of my personal liberties either.
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Old May 14, 2007, 03:07 PM   #82
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That sucks, Vos. Pretty obvious that some people can’t take the high road from atop their high horse. Kudos for standing by your kid and doing the right thing.

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Old May 15, 2007, 10:09 AM   #83
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Vostracker, You're right on with all your statements, and I have appreciated them. I worked on the rehab end of it for 10 years, and agree the meth addict is one of the most dangerous I've ever encountered. The sad part is many meth addicts cannot or will not handle the residual years of depression that usually accompanies clean time. Its the chemical result of a brain constantly on overdrive, and the serotonin mechanism becomes permanently "broke." Also the brain cannot use higher function pathways, and the ability to learn new things, ie a job is often impaired, depending on how long the person was using. Its a sad cascade of negative cognitive sequeli. We are all affected by this problem. Using the term dysfunctional is insulting and degrading, as it labels everyone in the family as "less than." Many a father and grandparent are raising the children of meth addicts. God bless them.Unfortunately rehab for the meth addict is tenuous at best and studies show an extremely high recidividism. After years of frustrating, dangerous work with meth addicts, I can only say, that jail time in many instances is more theraputic than rehab has been shown to be. Thank you for being on the front lines. You are one of my heroes.
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Old May 15, 2007, 09:43 PM   #84
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meth

Huntress: Thank you for your kind words. Im no hero. Just someone doing his job and trying to make a difference.

Denny: Thanks for the support.

Exar: Thought about not responding respond to your statementm, but I was cuious. Whose personnel liberties did I rob while conducting legal investigations and arrests of individuals who violated the law. Your statement leads one to belive you partake in illegal drug activities.
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Old May 31, 2007, 10:14 AM   #85
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I think an article on this issue is a good idea. I just hope it covers the total effects it cuases down the line. Not just that it is a nasty drug and it is every where and house blow up. We all know that.

This stuff is more than that! If an article is done I hope it is in depth.

I have seen gang articles in various magazines that were just basic info and over rated truth. Example; I have not seen an MS 13 article that I would call interesting at all. They are all to basic and lack complete info.

Just my .02 cents....

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Old June 7, 2007, 09:04 PM   #86
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From what I've seen, meth is the most destructive of the hard drugs, and the nastiest people on the planet make it and deal it.
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Old June 8, 2007, 06:43 AM   #87
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I believe what Exar is referring to, about violating a persons liberties, is the fact that it is perfectly legal to intoxicate oneself with alcohol, yet at one time it wasn't. Prohibition wasn't a very good policy and it led to gangsters and the creation of the bootlegging. The problem that many see in the war on drugs is that unless they are actually harming another person, as many drunks do, is that the government acts as if it owns a person's body and has the right to dictate to them what drugs are legal and those which are not. Interestingly many prescription drugs, that are legal, destroy people just a effectively as those others that are considered illegal. The way to end drug usage is to treat it as a medical and psychological problem. People that use these drugs and operate machinery and move about in public should be arrested just as any drunk would.

Vostracker your instincts about Exar may in fact be correct. Then again you would might be inclined to think the same about me, as my statements do not coincide with yours about drugs. I can tell you that I do not do any drugs period, nor do I drink alcohol. I believe that there are many weak people who include many law enforcement officers that are drinkers, in addition to soldiers. The reason that they do this is because they are unable to cope with their psychological problems, which are in general created by their choice of employment.

Self medicating has gone on long before the US ever existed. Don't get me wrong, these meth users need to be put away, since their activities are hazardous to entire communities. The potential for a residence to detonate from cooking that garbage is definitely a factor. Yes they tend to be violent folks as well and should go to jail for their actions, not for the drug that they are using. Too many people today invest their efforts in actions that are futile at best and risk a dictatorial police state at worst.

This approach to the drug problem in our country isn't very effective. The war on drugs only creates new age gangsters, who accept the risk in order to profit quickly, just as prohibition did. Self control is the key to many problems. Sadly people would rather blame and control others as opposed to themselves. All of these irresponsible people, both police and citizen, need to discipline themselves and toughen up. Quit drinking, drugging, and acting as if they are bully's with a right to control personal actions of others that do not endanger the general public. Ending the war on drugs will go a long way in helping public relations with the populace, instead of sneaking around, kicking in doors, confiscating(stealing) personal property, and disrespecting a person's right to be safe in their papers, person and effects. Treat their weakness just as drunks are treated, it is that simple.

The meth heads need to but put away, as they are not likely to be cured of their problems, due to extensive brain damage. Quite frankly, I find many of the things that others do to be stupid. There is no law against being stupid. The line is crossed when you harm others to obtain the means to support a retarded habit. When a person does this there are already laws, which are reasonable, that need enforcement. Busting rapists, murderers, counterfeiters, molesters and violent offenders is a better use of law enforcers. There is only so much money available to law enforcement, effective use of that money will get the job done. The police need the people to be on their side, today there are many more who distrust the police than appreciate them. It isn't a coincidence that this is the case. Think about it.

Thank you, Vostracker. You are one of the few are willing to operate in a dangerous environment for the good of the people. I can only hope that you see things in an objective manner, rather than a subjective manner. Peace and good will to you Sir. You are a good person, and the world can use more good people.
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Old June 9, 2007, 06:35 PM   #88
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There was a story in the news about five years ago about this guy whose kid was screaming in the back seat of the car, so he turned around and hacked off the kid's head with a bowie knife. His wife was in the car, too. This is the kind of degradation that happens to people who use meth. The guy was arrested, and when he came down enough to realize what he'd done, he went nuts. I think it happened in New Mexico.
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Old June 10, 2007, 03:34 AM   #89
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meth

Slugthrower: Thank you for your kind words. You seem to see things as I do. I wish more people felt the way you do. Gob bless and take care.
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Old June 11, 2007, 01:11 AM   #90
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What really makes me mad about the whole Meth thing is the fact that it affects so many people in ways many people don't think about.

I have messed up nasal passages which cause me constant headaches. The only way I can relieve them is with a combination of Sudafed and Advil. I go through anywhere from 2 to 6 Sudafed a day, and BTW - the new formula does NOTHING to relieve my symptoms. Recently I noticed my local Wal-Mart stopped carrying the generic Sudafed tablets. Prior to that, they cut their package size from 96 tabs to 48 tabs. It really bites that I have to wait in line, and have my driver's license ready, just to buy a freakin decongestant! Thanks a lot you stupid junkies...
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Old June 11, 2007, 01:54 AM   #91
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I'll chime in on what I know about meth... I've got two friends (or had - now acquaintances) who were users, and still very well might relapse from time to time. But I know one of them is quite clean.

Meth, unlike pot, is an upper. The people I've known who got addicted to meth liked a thrill, and never did more than try things like beer and pot. They were (and thankfully are, for the most part) very intelligent, driven people; it seems like, more than anything, uppers and meth in particular does a number on intellectual people due to their desire to perform intellectually. Meth is basically the "ultimate" upper, in that it'll make you feel like your brain is operating in overdrive - and it is, just not the whole thing (thus why tweakers can take large caliber body shots so easily without falling over). Twenty four, 48 hours of uptime is what happens with a single use, but obviously they can stay up for much longer. I believe that is what tends to do the most damage to the meth user's mind - the long periods of sleep and nutrient deprivation, and the raised temperatures resulting from the meth use.

The girl I knew went on one such bender, and that alone nearly killed her. Before the meth, she was 130lb of loveliness; afterwards, you'd probably think she was dead if she were lying down. I saw her recently and, thankfully, she's probably back up to 110lb or so, and she's got the light back into her eyes (a very cheerful girl). I really, really hope she's able to stay off it, because one relapse is most certainly enough to kill a person. Unlike drugs which can give you a "bad trip" and make you lose it, all meth is both the good and bad trip.

Yes, there are those out there who want any sort of mind-altering substance, but there's really no accounting for them. They're so severely gone before they even start that, short of locking them in a convent (and maybe even then), their life is already in 5th heading for the cliff.

One more thing about meth: it is very, very environmentally caustic. It's dangerous to have around, period, due to its easy absorption into skin and inhalation, not to mention the ether and other evil sh*t that goes into making it. It's construction is quite environmentally damaging, too, as the refuse is caustic. Anyway... that's one argument for why meth should be banned, or at the very least prevented from human consumption: having it around will negatively impact others, if not the chemical itself, then the crazy f*cking behavior of the person taking it.
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Old June 12, 2007, 08:53 AM   #92
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The only bad thing about a Meth article is that I don't think it will produce any additional Info that people don't all ready know!

You can turn on cable tv and any given week find a show on meth and in the end there usually is no new info. Just rehashed info. Gets boring after a while.

I think an article on gangs would be better. There is a lot of miss information and/or incomplete information this subject.
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Old November 19, 2007, 11:06 PM   #93
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I saw this on a my space site and thought it might be interesting for some of you on the Meth topic. It is a poem written (reportedly) by a 21 year old young lady prior to her death from an overdose. I think it is pretty good and tragic. And I wanted to share it with those that want to take the time to read it. Thanks.

(Yes, I know it's an old thread.)

http://journals.aol.com/macombangel/...tle-truth/2638

Meet Mr. and Mrs. Crystal Meth.
I destroy homes – I tear families apart.
I take your children and that’s just a start.
I’m more valued than diamonds, more precious than gold.
The sorrow I bring is a sight to behold.
If you need me, remember, I’m easily found.
I live all around you, in school and in town.
I live with the rich, I live with the poor.
I live just down the street and maybe next door.
I’m made in a lab, but not one like you think.
I can be made under the kitchen sink,
In your child’s closet, and even out in the woods.
If this scares you to death, then it certainly should.
I have many names. But there’s one you’ll know best.
I’m sure you’ve heard of me, my name is Crystal Meth.

My power is awesome, try me, you’ll see.
But if you do, you may never break free.
Just try me once and I might let you go.
But if you try me twice, then I’ll own your soul.
When I possess you, you’ll steal and you’ll lie.
You’ll do what you have to do, just to get high.
The crimes you commit for my narcotic charms,
Will be worth the pleasures you feel in my arms.
You’ll lie to your mother; you’ll steal from your dad.
When you see their tears, you must feel sad.
Just forget your morals and how you were raised.
I’ll be your conscience, I’ll teach you my ways.
I take kids from their parents; I take parents from their kids.
I turn people from God, I separate friends.
I’ll take everything from you, your looks and your pride.
I’ll be with you always, right by your side.
You’ll give up everything, your family, your home.
Your money, your true friend, then you’ll be alone.
I’ll take and take till you have no more to give.
When I finish with you, you’ll be lucky to live.

If you try me, be warned, this is not a game.
If I’m given the chance, I’ll drive you insane.
I’ll ravage your body; I’ll control your mind.
I’ll own you completely; your soul will be mine.
The nightmares I’ll give you when you’re lying in bed,
And the voices you’ll hear from inside your head.
The sweats, the shakes, and the visions from me.
I want you to know these things are gifts from me.
But then it’s too late, and you’ll know in your heart
That you are now mine and we shall not part.
You’ll regret that you tried me (they always do).
But you came to me, not I to you.
You knew this would happen.
Many times you’ve been told.
But you challenged my power,
You chose to be bold.
You could have said no and then walked away.
If you could live that day over now, what would you say?

My power is awesome, as I told you before.
I can take your life and make it so dim and sore.
I’ll be your master and you’ll be my slave.
I’ll even go with you when you go to your grave.
Now that you’ve met me, what will you do?
Will you try me or not? It’s all up to you.
I can show you more misery than words can tell.

Come take my hand, let me lead you to HELL.
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Old November 21, 2007, 12:20 AM   #94
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The effects of meth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEFPdNv2Ddk
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Old November 21, 2007, 03:36 PM   #95
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Much of the meth in the US now comes from Mexico. It is rumored to be more potent than the home made stuff. A few years ago OK made it very difficult to buy Sudafed over the counter, one of the first states to do so. Meth lab busts in OK have gone down dramatically since the enactment of that law.

For a long time the US congress refused to restrict the availability of Sudafed. Congressmen have long been in the pockets of the drug companies and the drug companies wanted to continue to sell Sudafed by the boxcar load.

40 states passed laws restricting the sale of Sudafed before congress got its act together and did the same.
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Old November 21, 2007, 05:29 PM   #96
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thallub 40 states passed laws restricting the sale of Sudafed before congress got its act together and did the same.

Yet in the end, that effort was in vain. Now most meth comes from Mexico and you now have the associated gang violence instead of houses blowing up, some trade there.

People who use pseudoephedrine as it was intended and benefit greatly from it now get treated like criminals.
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Old November 29, 2007, 03:14 AM   #97
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Meth is not fit for human consumption. I am certain of it. I am aware of the destruction people can cause using it. I know it can be dangerous to merely be in the vicinity of "labs".

Do I think it should be outlawed? More specifically, do I find anything in the Constitution that gives anyone the right to legislate against it?

No.

The War on Drugs is a joke. It's a joke because the same government that most of you believe can't usually find its own behind with both hands and a map is somehow supposed to succeed without wholesale trampling of rights in this one regard? Likely.

I think most of you aren't actually against recreational drug use. (Except for a few moralists.) What I believe most of you- and hopefully America- are really against are certain behaviors: driving while under the influence; endangering children; poisoning the environment; blowing up the apartment; behaving violently, etc.

You know what? Those behaviors are already illegal. People can be prosecuted for having dangerous substances accessible to children. They can be jailed for neglect. They can be jailed or killed for posing a violent threat. They can suffer a laundry list of penalties for poisoning or arson.

Me? I'm a libertarian. I believe folks get to do what they want, as long as they don't infringe on other's rights. All these chemicals that some of y'all are so concerned about were legal not so very long ago. So were all manner of poisons and weapons. Somehow it doesn't seem to have been that big a problem.

But, but, we live in different times now! Some will protest.

Bulll****. People don't change. Face the truth, which is this: people can hurt themselves with anything. Obesity-related disorders are now the number one killer in the U.S., meaning that folks are abusing- omigod, wait for it- food. Yep. More than anything else.

Now, if you decide tomorrow to legislate McDonald's out of existence and raid every restaurant with SWAT teams, I imagine you'll see a few million people protesting and/or rioting the next day.

We as a country are trying to push the responsibility for yet another issue off on the government instead of where in rightfully belongs, in our own hands. The WOD doesn't work. It criminalizes the wrong things, not the behaviors we want to control. Punish crime. Save money. Save some freedoms.

This doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for those who've used drugs to hurt themselves or those they love. I do. I have family members and close friends who are or were in drug recovery programs. Being sympathetic does NOT mean I get to give away my reason, and history tells us that about the only thing the government can do somewhat well is fight other countries. So...end the "War on Drugs", and let's get on to the next "war" that will take still more of our freedoms.

Unwarranted wiretapping, anyone?
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Old November 29, 2007, 11:37 AM   #98
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+1 Spectre. Very well said. We are not going to eliminate drugs. What we CAN do is reduce the damage they cause society.

I got a bootleg pre-release copy of the documentary, "American Drug War: The Last White Hope". It does have it's parts that I don't agree with and some that I think are exaggerated. But the overall message is true, the War on Drugs is a failure and the government benefits from having drugs illegal as much as the drug dealers do.
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Old January 22, 2008, 04:23 PM   #99
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police dont bother drug dealers. thats too much like work. but those dangerous blood thirsty speeders, there all over that.
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Old January 23, 2008, 08:48 AM   #100
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"People who use pseudoephedrine as it was intended and benefit greatly from it now get treated like criminals."

This is the sad part of the whole meth tale. Politicians were in the pockets of the drug companies and retailers who wanted to sell sudafed by the train car load to meth makers or anyone else. Then the same politicians put idiotic restrictions on legitimate users of sudafed.

Case in point: There was a guy in Comanche county, OK who sold sudafed out the back door of his small store by the pickup truck load. Try as they might; the Sheriff's office could not get a prosecution on the guy because there was no OK law that prevented the store owner from selling the stuff by the pickup load.
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