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Old February 22, 2006, 03:53 AM   #1
DerDer
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Carrying in Waistband (No holster)

Does anyone else here not use a holster? I thought about getting one but decided on just sticking it in my pants. I've seen it done many times and was wondering about the tactical advantage of carrying in waistband compared to IWB, OWB, ankle, etc... The only downsides so far of not using a holster is that I can't run without holding it, must take it out to do #2, and occasionally needs readjustment (But enhances self awareness). The upside is that it is easily accessible and and more concealable with less material to bulge. I was wondering how common this is because I haven't really read about it. Also I do it on a daily basis. I've done it with several firearms I have but find that it is easier with the snub.
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Old February 22, 2006, 05:30 AM   #2
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What tactical advantage ?

Quote:
I've seen it done many times and was wondering about the tactical advantage of carrying in waistband
Where have you seen it done, on television? I would think it would be awfully uncomfortable and dangerous. How do you carry it, against your skin and cover it with your shirt or do you wear two shirts in that warm climate? Aren't you worried that it will get caught on your clothing if you need to draw the weapon? You say it "occasionally needs readjustment" but enhances self awareness, that's like advertising that you're carrying a firearm. You also say "you can't run without holding it" what would you do if you ever got into a fight? Plus you said and I quote "I must take it out to do #2", I'm not even going to go there!
I think you would be doing yourself and everyone around you a big favor by getting an IWB holster before you lose or drop your firearm, at least that's my opinion.
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Old February 22, 2006, 07:07 AM   #3
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what?

what are you running from(probably the cops)if pimpin' it all gangsta in da' waistband? lay off the A-team reruns.
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Old February 22, 2006, 07:24 AM   #4
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I initially carried my taurus 24/7 that way for a few weeks until I found an IWB holster that was comfortable enough to use. Most of the IWB holsters I found were too bulky for comfortable all day wear.

What I settled on was the Invisible agent by Desanti... http://www.desantisholster.com/005.html

Its almost like wearing nothing at all... (I sound like a condom advertisement!)

But depending on what type of gun you are carrying and how you size your clothes, carrying without a holster can work with the limitations you listed above. At least for me it did. But then again, I was carrying openly which is legal here in VA.
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Old February 22, 2006, 08:46 AM   #5
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I think you covered pretty well the reasons NOT to carry w/o a holster...weapon security being #1. Can't come up with any tactical reasons to do so. Seeing it done on TV or in the movies ain't really seeing it; other wise we would also be cocking our Glocks, firing our weapons when the slide is locked back, and racking out perfectly good rounds everytime we fire our pump shotguns.
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Old February 22, 2006, 04:17 PM   #6
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I agree that a gun is much more secure in a holster, but people besides those on TV carry without holsters.

I was in a local gun shop here, looking at a Glock 19. The salesguy (part owner?) told me it was his and that it was great for concealed carry. He then proceeded to show me how he carried it - in the waistband without a holster. He then went on to say that he only carried it with 5 or 6 rounds to save on weight.

Just wanted to give some evidence that there are real people who carry without holsters.
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Old February 22, 2006, 04:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Just wanted to give some evidence that there are real people who carry without holsters.
Yup -- and go to any junk yard and you can see ample evidence that sometimes people drive drunk, while text messaging (real story from here recently that got a pedestrian killed) or in other stupid and dangerous ways for both themselves and others.

Carrying on a regular basis without a holster is right up there with the rest of these. Just plain stupid and dangerous for everyone.
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Old February 22, 2006, 04:49 PM   #8
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If you "can't run without holding it, must take it out to do #2, and occasionally needs readjustment "

How can it possibly be easier to access.
You never know where the thing is going to be.

Easily accessing a weapon under pressure, takes much practice, believe it or not, to make it an instinctual movement.
This cannot be done unless the gun is in exactly the same place every time you access it.

The one thing that you call an upside is effectively eliminated by those that you admit are on the downside

(you can leave out the #2 complaint though, you sometime have to that with a good holster))
Quote:
He then went on to say that he only carried it with 5 or 6 rounds to save on weight.
And this didn't clue you in that he was somewhat less than bright.

If you disable aspects of the weapon that make it effective, such as rounds and secure holsters, you are not using the gun to it's full potential so why have it when you can buy a light weight gun,at a cheaper price, that only holds 5 or 6 rounds and will fit in your pocket
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Old February 22, 2006, 05:35 PM   #9
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WOW ---

Here is a thread filled with bad ideas

Do some folks carry without a holster --- yes, Is it reccomended NO!!

Is it not compleatly reckless with a external safety gun like a 1911 or a S+W --- I would say no, not compleatly reckless, though again not reccomended as it's not as secure no matter how you stack it

Is it reccomended with a Glock ? Hell NO!! I get chills on the few occasons my G26 has worked it's way a little out of it's holster --- I think glock is a perfectly safe gun, however it is one that I cam more easily see having an indavertant trigger pull lead to a discharge, good holsters will prevent this.

Have I "carried" without a holster --- no, not outside the house, it's not secure enough for me, however I will admit to tucking my 1911 into my waistband a few times if I am up and about late at night and do not feel like putting the holster on yet have heard a "bump" outside in the night.

Carry a Glock with 5 rounds? Oh my god!! Like the gun is so heavy fully loaded? Man hope he never needs #7-15
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Old February 22, 2006, 07:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Is it not compleatly reckless with a external safety gun like a 1911 or a S+W --- I would say no, not compleatly reckless, though again not reccomended as it's not as secure no matter how you stack it
so it's not COMPLETELY reckless, so that makes it OK?

"Yup, Honey, I'm just jamming my .45 into my waistband today without a holster. It's a little reckless and does raise the odds I'll accidentally shoot myself or one of the children, but what the hey ... 2nd amendment all the way!"

Saying it's ok to do something a little reckless is like saying following 3 out of the 4 gun safety rules is sufficient.

Do people carry without a holster? Yes, mostly criminals, but yes.
Do people drive drunk and accidentally kill other people and/or themselves? yes.

As a knowledgeable gun forum promoting responsible gun ownership and trying to train people, we need to all take a stand on crap like this. Because it's really simple:

Carrying without a holster is stupid and should not be done.

Now ... it's not like any of us at some point or the other haven't stuck a gun in our belt for some temporary purpose, like checking out the house; no big deal as for the brief period we're acutely aware of the weapon and where it is and being careful of it.

But planning to do it on a daily basis while doing your normal errands and running to Wal Mart just doesn't make sense.

You can get a functional holster for as little as $15 (though I woudln't recommend it) that will be better than nothing.
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Old February 22, 2006, 07:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
I would say no, not compleatly reckless, though again not reccomended as it's not as secure no matter how you stack it
Quote:
You can get a functional holster for as little as $15 (though I woudln't recommend it) that will be better than nothing.
How come his not recommended is an endorsement but your's is a caveat
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Old February 22, 2006, 07:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
$gAnGsTA(_;_)wOrLd$
(taken from initial poster's signature) + homie style carry = :barf:

This is what can make TFL look bad. I can't understand the youthful admiration of gang members. In my opinion, TFL should not allow this type of discussion (relating to methods of gang banging; such as carrying "mexican" style); as it promotes a negative image of ALL firearms owners. See the "Raising the Bar at TFL" sticky.
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Old February 22, 2006, 07:47 PM   #13
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So we should completely ignore all question that do not conform to what you consider proper content ?

There are many ignorant questions posed on these sites.
We are also here to dispell those myths intelligently, not by calling the member out and insulting him and portraying ALL gunowners as arrogant and narrow minded

Read the forum rules sticky
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Old February 22, 2006, 09:07 PM   #14
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As a 20 year veteran of CCW, I confidently carry certain S&W revolvers having rubber grips in "Mexican" fashion in front of the hip with no insecurity, shifting or discomfort at all.
Semiautomatic pistols are another story, but some DA wheelguns are quite stable in this manner of carry in spite of the lack of a holster, and are obviously quite safe and fast to draw as well.
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Old February 22, 2006, 09:22 PM   #15
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Joab:


Quote:
Outsiders and fence sitters will most certainly form opinions about gun owners in general based on post form and content observed on this board
--- Taken from the sticky "raising the bar at TFL...

Quote:
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?
--- taken from Capt. Charlie's (moderator) signature.

the $gAnGsTA(_;_)wOrLd$ thing portrays an image. What kind of an image to you think a "gangsta" is? TFL portrays an image to all people who read its topics, which includes non gun owners who will form opinions based on what they read. You wouldn't want them to associate all gun owners with gangs would you?

I have no problem with the freedom of speech. But we are fighting a battle to keep the 2nd ammendment alive, so we should watch what we say when using our 1st ammendment rights.


I'm not attacking the original poster; I'm commenting on the tendency of posts to slip towards the area that anti-gun people could read and form opinions on. Those opinions will affect how they vote. How they vote could determine whether or not the 2nd ammendment will hold any weight in the future. We have to "prove" to the United States in general that firearms are a good thing. Every little bit counts, as Capt. Charlie's signature states.

DerDer, I'm not attacking you, and I hope you didn't interpret it the same way Joab did. I understand many people have some sort of thing for the "gangsta" thing. I personally don't want anything to do with it; but I understand that thing does not make a person a gang banger.
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Old February 22, 2006, 10:08 PM   #16
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I too agree wholeheartedly with the opion that carrying a gun without a holster is like having unprotected sex. While most of the time nothing bad will happen, it's the "what if" that worries me. I belive the advice of "not reccomending.." a $15 holster was that a quality holster should be used, but a cheap one is somewhat better than nothing.

As for the original poster's sig, while that type of language would be fine on most internet forums, we HAVE set a higher standard because we are under a microscope with the subject matter involved.

Just my .02
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Old February 22, 2006, 10:52 PM   #17
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Give me a break OIC
The guy asked a question, it is being answered responsibly without blatant insults by most members.
How is this hurting the SA movement in any way.

On the other hand how does driving off new members instead of encouraging them to stick around and get educated help us.

If he takes the advice and reasoning given he will not spread this misinformation to others.

Others who are lurking here will also learn without having to expose themselves to the embarrassment of belittling insults

Quote:
"In God we trust, the rest of you keep your hands where can see 'em"
You think this little bit of irreverent gallows humor couldn't offend some or portray a shoot em all cowboy attitude.
Quote:
"God have mercy upon my enemies; because I won't" - George Patton
And a quote from a man that stated publicly that he enjoyed killing and thought he was a reincarnated roman soldier

Your over the top and out of line on this one
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Old February 22, 2006, 11:39 PM   #18
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To answer the question as it was asked, putting aside all the uncalled-for
"B.S.", yes, I often carry a handgun in my waistband, no holster.

If I know I am going to be in a situation where a holster may be
necessary, I will use one. And I have many. Belt holsters, IWB
holsters, paddle holsters, belly-bands, etc. But if I'm going to the
grocery store to pick up a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread, I don't
think twice about sticking my Colt Series 70, or my CZ RAMI inside
my waistband, and 'truckin' on'.

I stick my pistol at about "3:30" on my hipbone, and the tension of my belt
just seems to keep it where it needs to be. I have carried everything
from a S&W Model 36, to a Colt .45 auto there, and they all seem to
work perfectly well.

I fully realize this stance isn't "politically correct" in the "Gun Experts'
Opinion", but then, they don't have to worry about protecting my
butt. I do, and I do what is best for me, critics be damned.

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Old February 22, 2006, 11:54 PM   #19
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OneInTheChamber has valid concerns, and I appreciate his concern. But while I find DerDer's sigline somewhat distasteful, it isn't a blatant declaration of gang activity. Until he posts suggesting something to clearly indicate his interests lie in that direction, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It does concern me that we might be coaching gangsta's, but, as the saying goes, I'd rather see ten guilty men go free, rather than see one innocent man condemned.

DerDer, I would ask you to reconsider your sig line, but at this point, I'm asking only. The ball's in your court.
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Old February 23, 2006, 01:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
DerDer, I would ask you to reconsider your sig line, but at this point, I'm asking only. The ball's in your court.
Unbelievable
I'm sure if we look just a little we can find some sigs here that perfectly fit the stereotype of the guntotin redneck that some seem to be wanting to represent this site.

I read one just the other day that hinted at how much fun it was to watch folks fall down the stairs.

Now is that really the image we want to portray to those oh so ignorant lurkers who may drop by.
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Old February 23, 2006, 02:03 AM   #21
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do your pants hang round your ass also.
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Old February 23, 2006, 02:09 AM   #22
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1. I do not claim to be a gangster, claim to be involved in any gangster related activities, or hang around other gangsters. My behavior occasionally mimics one, however. I am interested in the gangster lifestyle because I occasionally look to it for guidance with such issues as cars, women, and money.

2. A full spectrum of gun owners will only help to strenghten the reputation of gun owners and not hurt it. From the redneck to the suburbanite the more people we have representing the better. It is better than just having the public identify gun owners as, "those gun nuts with a bazillion guns locked away with weird quotes on TFL."

3. I think carrying in the waistband is more suave than ripping up one's pants. Due to my small stature using a holster would mean more bulk which cannot happen. I think this issue strikes at the heart of what it means to be a gun owner because how we carry defines what kind of gun owner we are. Carrying in my waistband allows my to access my gun easily and although it has slipped down before it has never fallen. Clutching my side to prevent the gun moving while running works although it makes it obvious that I carry.

4. The fact remains this a viable method of carry that works. This has been on my mind for quite a while and I am glad that I started this thread. No doubt many people will learn from this and decide for themselves what they want to do.

5. Thank you SAWBONES and Walter. I knew that there were some others out there.

6. I will carry until the day I die whether it is legal or illegal.
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Old February 23, 2006, 05:19 AM   #23
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Quote:
6. I will carry until the day I die whether it is legal or illegal.
I have to say that IF and only IF you are responding to a certain threat that exists in certain areas of certain neiborhoods, then I agree with the idea to protect yourself and your loved ones by whatever means neccesary. HOWEVER!!! Do some research on those certain areas and the amount of jail time involved in doing what you stated above.

I thought long and hard about "my" certain areas of certain neighborhoods that I frequented and the laws that governed them. It was enough to make me move into safer certain areas where the law that governs says I can carry legally and not visiting those certain areas anymore where the law said I couldn't. That said, having lived in or near those certain areas for some length of time, the idea that its "every man for himself" was sometimes evident in the response times of the local LE community.

Just remember that it's quite difficult to protect yourself (or your family for that matter) on the "inside" with out a weapon...
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Old February 23, 2006, 09:23 AM   #24
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Quote:
My behavior occasionally mimics one, however. I am interested in the gangster lifestyle because I occasionally look to it for guidance with such issues as cars, women, and money.
If it looks like a rabbit, and acts like a rabbit; chances are its a rabbit.

And why of God's green earth would you want to look to a gang banger for advice?!?!? Cause their life is going so well? (maybe it looks like that for a couple of months; maybe years at best); but it will end up either in jail or dead. The only way out of a gang banger lifestyle is either in hand cuffs or a body bag.

Joab:
Quote:
You think this little bit of irreverent gallows humor couldn't offend some or portray a shoot em all cowboy attitude
FYI that's a police motto; is there something wrong with a police image????

And do you have something against a General that successfully defended your freedom?? Patton fought hard, and Patton got the job done. It's because of Patton that you aren't reading this in German.
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Old February 23, 2006, 09:46 AM   #25
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Shoving a loaded gun in your pants without the benefit of a holster is just a bad idea on so many levels. But hey, it's your nads and your arse.
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