The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 19, 2006, 12:13 AM   #1
Sir William
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 3,261
OK, it is 13 degrees F, where is your CCW?

Well? Can you access it and operate it with heavy gloves and clothing? I realized today that I was wearing two layers of fleece, a leather jacket and I was wearing heavy fleece-lined gloves. Ice everywhere and windblown snow. Any winter CCW modifications to offer? We see quite a few summertime CCW attire questions. The old, "I CCW my 1911 under a heavy coat in winter." saw is OK but, how/where do you CCW in 13 degree or lower temperatures?
Sir William is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 12:25 AM   #2
Capt Charlie
Staff
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,304
13 degrees!!! Shoot SW, you're having a heat wave! Right here, right now, it's 4.2 degrees F! Coldest night of the year here, so far.

My Walker PPK/S rides in an outside coat pocket on days like this. I don't care if it does print; I'm not opening my coat for love nor money. There just isn't anyone out walking around in this to notice. If I have to go inside a store or something, I cover the pocket with a hand & head for the restroom, where I walk in a stall and transfer it to an inside pocket.

I think CCW is more difficult in hot weather, actually, but there is the problem with gloves in this weather.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

--Capt. Charlie
Capt Charlie is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 01:07 AM   #3
riverrat66
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 394
Brrr...

First off I wear silk longjohns, one layer of medium fleece and then my outerware and I can spend the entire day in zero degree temperatures. If it gets colder I wear one layer of heavy fleece (from Cabela's).
Then depending on my outerware, if not in my outside pocket, I carry my handgun in a "hand warmer/muff" because I very seldom wear gloves and then my firearm is always readily accessible with my hands inside the muff not in my pockets and it does not look like one of those gun pouches. BTW, I think leather really sucks for warmth but if you don't have a choice try the silk underware under the fleece, not cotton!
riverrat66 is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 01:25 AM   #4
TBT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: Pittsburgh Pa
Posts: 773
I can access my weapon through my jacket without problems and I never wear gloves.
TBT is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 01:53 AM   #5
tlm225
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 661
I rarely have to deal with weather that cold but I stick with unlined thin leather gloves. They break the chill but still allow dexterity.
__________________
All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
tlm225 is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 02:46 AM   #6
GodblessAmerica
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Posts: 161
Sir William, I agree with Capt. Charlie and tlm, especially the gloves. I recently had an epiphany, where I went right back to the double glove (mil-spec wool liner and thin outer leather) that we used to wear along with woodland cammo and "other" uniforms in cold weather. The thin outers allow great dexterity but still keep your fingers warm with the liners. My favorite, barring wetness, though is still just the liners themselves. Better grip than dry, cold bare hands and only slightly larger. No oversized trigger guards needed there!! You can find them in black also, so it's not so dern obvious that they are the "evil" military gloves to the regular folks . Now as far as concealment, winter is waaaay better for it than spring/summer. I have a really hard time concealing my Sig 220 and 1911 types most of the year, but when you can put them under multiple layers as most wear in winter, it is no big deal at all. I have a Land's End coat (winter squall thing) that has so many large pockets internally that I can carry either type with no printing, although the jacket hangs lower on the side when there is a .45 cal plus loaded magazines in it. I doubt a casual observer would notice it though.
Best of luck.
My 100th post!!
G
GodblessAmerica is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 03:37 AM   #7
Sir William
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 3,261
I have deerhide gloves myself. Dyed black and treated with mink oil. I layer. I learned one thing from my years as a boy scout and camping. I had a Walther PP in a belt rig, a Zastava Mod 70 in my jacket outer pocket and an M Colt in an inside pocket. All in 32 ACP. I tend to CCW multiple small semi-autos in winter.
Sir William is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 04:01 AM   #8
Gazpacho
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2004
Posts: 558
In heavy weather clothing, my 340PD goes into the front strong side coat pocket. You don't even have to draw. In that instance, my Colt Commander becomes the BUG, as it is burried under the coat.

Sir William, just curious. Have you tested 32acp against heavy winter clothing? I suggest going to your local Salvation Army store and pick up some expendable clothes. Maybe an undershirt, dress shirt, sweater and a leather jacket. Wrap that around a phone book and shoot it. Compare the results to a bare phone book. If you are happy with the results, then fine, but I expect at the very least you would need to carry FMJ for decent penetration.
Gazpacho is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 08:09 AM   #9
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade
Posts: 7,883
I carry my pistol where I normally do. I work outside all winter and dont really have all that many more clothes on. Just long johns, a sweatshirt or fleece and a windbreaker. Access is pretty much the same as the summer under a shirt.

I wear mittens instead of gloves. Gloves suck at keeping your hands warm and mittens actually come off faster.
__________________
“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Zeitgeist - The Movie
AK103K is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 09:33 AM   #10
shep854
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 555
It's in the low '20s here in Birmingham right now. Usually, I pocket-carry my CCW, but if I need to wear a long coat (as opposed to a short jacket), I either leave the lower buttons open, or carry in the outside pocket.

I recently shot wearing my winter gloves. It was amazing how much harder it was to shoot with the thick fingers, but I know and can allow for the difference.
__________________
Powder smoke- The Smell of FREEDOM!
I don't shoot to kill; I shoot to live.
Registration? NEVER!!
shep854 is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 09:42 AM   #11
Striker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 122
I'm at home in Ohio right now, outside temp is in 10 degree range. I wearing a wool ribbed pull over sweater tucked in my jeans, with my glock 19 in my normal strong side hip carry. I cover this with a down parka. Gloves are thin leather shotgun shooting type or nomex.

My 642 is in my right hand parka pocket though, with my hand usually on it when outside. Inside in public (mall, grocery, etc, parka is unzipped for access to the glock, and parka pocket with 642 is zipped up to prevent unintentional loss.
__________________
Striker

RLTW
"Hope is not a course of action, nor a method of execution..."
Striker is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 09:44 AM   #12
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
13 degrees!!! Shoot SW, you're having a heat wave! Right here, right now, it's 4.2 degrees F! Coldest night of the year here, so far.
Coldest night? That was the night before last night. 1.3 with a windchill of -24. This AM we had a bonny 4 degrees, no wind!

I have a thin cotten liner under deerskin gloves. Works very well. I still carry IWB regardless of the temp.
__________________
National listings of the Current 2A Cases.
Al Norris is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 09:47 AM   #13
Mannlicher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2001
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 2,970
Its 80 here in Miami. Bright sunshine. I can't even imagine what it would be like, living where it got cold like that.
__________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan
Mannlicher is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 09:50 AM   #14
Javelin Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2005
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 154
Winter weather

I read a bicycle magazine once with a letter to the editor where the guy just went off on the sissies that didn't want to ride because it was too cold. He claimed he always rode his bike throughout the year, no matter how cold or wet and that we just needed to buck up and do it! Then he signed his name and his town: Honolulu, Hawaiia. (sp)

Unless I'm on the farm in coveralls, I just wear a short winter coat and cover garment and no gloves. I'm not going to spend much time outside. I guess as I'm getting older, the thrill of freezing isn't as great anymore.
Javelin Man is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 10:31 AM   #15
MEDDAC19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2005
Location: Endless Mts,NEPA
Posts: 379
Sir William, I agree and asked a similar question about whether anyone practiced with gloves on awhile back. We are going through a cold snap now that has wind chill factors of -50F. Anyone that thinks that they are going to go out with no gloves or just deer skin gloves on, is in for a rude awakening. Exposed skin freezes in seconds at these temps and gloves with no insulation will only extend that time frame a few minutes. I tend to think that when the mercury is way below 0, there will not be many criminals out and about. Think about it, you want to mug someone and you have to worry about freezing to death, if nobody walks along in the next 5 minutes. Yes it can happen, but I don't think that there will be the same chance of crime occurring away from shelters while the temp is dangerously low.

I also think that if someone is going to be outdoors for long periods of time, carry in an outside coat pocket is not a good idea, if gloves are not used. An exposed piece of metal will get very cold and bare skin could freeze to it. I know this will only be a problem at temperatures that are below zero, or maybe well below, but it does happen. When I was in the service, a recruit handled a practice grenade without gloves. He needed medical care because his hand became frozen to the grenade.

I think that a gun exposed to subzero temps for any length of time could be troublesome if it is needed before it warms up. Note, most of the US gets temperatures that are cold enough to cause some problems.
MEDDAC19 is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 11:44 AM   #16
smince
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2004
Location: Northeast Alabama
Posts: 2,580
For the gloves, I found a pair made by Whitewater Outdoors. 90% neoprene, 5%poly, 5% nylon. Very warm, very thin and flexible, and textured. Got them from Wal-mart for $8.00.

It is currently 16* here in North Alabama. My Defender has been transferred from IWB to ICP(inside my coat pocket) with my hand on it as I walk.
smince is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 12:12 PM   #17
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade
Posts: 7,883
A couple of things here.

Wind chill. I always get a kick out of this. I swear its just something the weather people came up with to make those who dont live outside to feel colder and to tighten their grip on the masses stuck inside glued to the tube. OH MY TODD! Its only 28 outside but it feels like 100 below! Cut me a break! They had to come up with the heat index for the summer time so you'd feel hotter. This stuff is all for the consumption of those who live inside all the time.

Winter clothing. Anyone who works or lives outdoors knows that dressing properly is the key and what your level of activity is, dictates how you dress. Layers are everything, no matter what your level and you adjust that as your temps demand. I'm active most of the time, so I dont wear as much as my partner who stands still most of the time. Where your gun(s) fits in all this depends on your normal mode of carry and how you practice with it. I always have one where it always is, everyday of the year. It tends to keep things a lot more simple and another layer of or two of light clothes over it doesnt change the draw much if at all. A big, heavy parka on the other hand will. It will also be impossible to ever be comfortable with it on.

Gloves vs. Mittens. I have to work in cold weather every day and I need the dexterity of my bare hands for a good bit of what I do. Gloves dont make it, they are to bulky, even the lightest ones offer you poor dexterity, and they really dont keep you hands warm. They separate your fingers from the rest of your hand so you CANT keep them warm. Mittens on the other hand (so to speak ) allow you to keep "meat on meat" and keep your hands warm. Just having a front "pass through" pocket, like on most anoraks will also allow you to keep your hands pretty warm just by popping them in and holding on to each other. Mittens of the right size and type come right off like a hockey players gloves in a fight. You dont really have to pull on them, just drop your hands quickly. For me this works, because I clear my sweatshirt/fleece/anorak by sliding my palm up my pant leg, thumb up, under the edge of them as I lift up. I can clear whatever I'm wearing, even multiple layers, very easy this way and all with one hand. I can also do it pretty damn quick and all in one motion from mitten off to gun out. You wont do that with a pair of winter gloves.

cold metal and sticking flesh. My hands are often wet from sweating in the mittens(they can be that warm) when I throw them off. We use a large steel stake to drive holes in the ground so we can put stakes in. Its outside with everything else and I've yet to have it stick to my bare hands when I grab it. I seriously doubt your hand will stick to a pistol left in an outer pocket. Its not going to be anywhere near cold enough, especially with your body heat under it to stick to your hand. Now if you put your tongue or wet hand on a flagpole or handrail, thats on you, but unless its been sitting out by itself hours on end in sub zero weather, its not going to be much, if any of a problem.


If you use some common sense and actually practice with what you choose to do, I doubt you'll have any troubles. Then again, if your exposure to the weather is what you encounter from the house to the car and then from the car to the office, regardless the time of year. Your probably not going to be dressed right and your most certainly not going to be happy if the car breaks down somewhere in between, especially if its rural like around here.
__________________
“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Zeitgeist - The Movie
AK103K is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 12:52 PM   #18
Capt Charlie
Staff
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,304
Our Alaskan Members here have to be ROFLTAO right now!

Quote:
Its 80 here in Miami. Bright sunshine.
Mannlicher,... *switching to jealousy mode*...*#%$@!!!! .............

I wonder what, if anything, the military does to prep weapons for really cold weather, as in double-digit below?
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

--Capt. Charlie
Capt Charlie is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 02:00 PM   #19
model 25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: out west
Posts: 892
It's so cold here I am staying home. If the bad guys want me they are going to have to come in where it's warm to get me

25
model 25 is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 02:09 PM   #20
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade
Posts: 7,883
If your real lucky, they will be wearing glasses when they come.
__________________
“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Zeitgeist - The Movie
AK103K is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 02:25 PM   #21
model 25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: out west
Posts: 892
Quote:
If your real lucky, they will be wearing glasses when they come.
So you don't think I should wait till the fog clears so they could have the joy to see what a good bullet does

25
model 25 is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 02:33 PM   #22
BigFunWMU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2005
Posts: 304
Just fog?

Its not really cold until you come in and the fog freezes on your glasses
__________________
"Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others."
- Edward Abbey
BigFunWMU is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 05:01 PM   #23
Wildalaska
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,174
13? Fleece jacket, no gloves...easy to access CCW.

At -20? Too cold for outdoor crime

WildheatwaveAlaska
Wildalaska is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 05:18 PM   #24
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK103K
Wind chill. I always get a kick out of this.
I see you're not familiar with how your vehicles radiator functions...
__________________
National listings of the Current 2A Cases.
Al Norris is offline  
Old February 19, 2006, 05:24 PM   #25
GlocksRfun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 419
4.4 degrees, that's warm. last many days around here.. -15 with a -35 windchill was the worst I saw. Gotta love wisconsin. I guess that's probably nothing compared to Alaska. I'm all happy that it's 10 out and finnally broke out of the single digits of the positive numbers.
GlocksRfun is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15994 seconds with 7 queries